The other "Great Warriors"

[bluntblade]

There's plenty of talk in the Heresy of the eighteen or so warriors on the level of Abaddon, Sigismund, Sevatar, Alajos, Khârn, Raldoran, Jubal and Lucius. That said, I'd struggle to pick candidates for that out of some Legions.

 

So, do we have candidates for the absolute elite among the likes of the Death Guard, Ultramarines (seem to remember Lamiad being spoken highly of, but not sure that was as a warrior), Iron Warriors, Raven Guard, Salamanders, Iron Hands, Word Bearers (Argel Tal perhaps?), Alpha Legion (likely not) and Thousand Sons?

 

Friendly injunction to not offend fraters by questioning whether an Iron Warrior could ever be a great swordsman In any case, Black Legion had a XIV Legion blademaster.

Edited March 20, 2020 by bluntblade

[MegaVolt87]

Lucious and Typhus are probably the two best for their legions. That guy with the two force swords in TS is at leasr as good as Lucious at that time.

[calgar101]

Two Ultramarines spring to mind Orfeo from Betrayer and Nicodemus (I think that's his name) from the short story with Dantioch. I'm far behind in the HH series so my knowledge of characters isn't great.

[Kelborn]

There was that one Thousand Sons blademaster who was said to be on par with Lucious.

He was featured in Crimson King.

 

I would further place Loken in here as he was named among the best of the Legion. At least in Horus Rising.

 

Argel Tal maybe?

[calgar101]

Good shouts there Kelborn. Polux of the Imperial Fists is another.

[Brother Pheidias]

Good shouts there Kelborn. Polux of the Imperial Fists is another.

Not to diminish Pollux, but I've never caught this, where might that be mentioned?

[bluntblade]

Where I've seen Polux spoken of highly, it's generally as a tactician. Besides, if we're going one per Legion then the Fists have... you know, that chap in the tabard. Edited March 21, 2020 by bluntblade

[STC Logisengine]

Well, the XXth have Harrowmaster Armillus Dynat who alone among the astartes can fight with his blade and thunderhammer at the same time. ;)
 

[Astartes Consul]

Corswain for the 1st Legion is mentioned as one I think?

[SkimaskMohawk]

The list is super subjective obviously. But from what I can tell, its never featured more than a handful by name. It's pretty much a combination of being a duelist and highly ranked in the legion; most of the names command company level strength, their own fleets, or are first captains.

 

Khârn is noted to have absolutely no motivation to spar, so probably wasn't on the list. Lucius doesn't seem to be known outside his legion until abbadon name drops him in solar war; neither the iron warriors or sharrowkyn in AE knew him by reputation. Sharrowkyn himself was mor deythan and those weren't widely known about either. Ansontyn is an iron warrior, who's whole gripe is that they were shoved into sieges and ignored by historians, so also probably not on the list. Loken is mentioned in the same thought as the other "great warriors" by abbadon.

 

The problem is that we only have so many PoV characters throughout the series and not everyone who's an excellent fighter is necessarily renowned. We don't know who went to honour duels and the like and did cross legion stuff, or who stayed in their expeditionary fleet on the fringes of space.

Edited March 21, 2020 by SkimaskMohawk

[b1soul]

My list...

 

Ist - Corswain, Astelan, Alajos

IIIrd - Lucius, Eidolon, Kaesoron

IVth - Probably Forrix

Vth - Qin Xa, Jubal (I think Shiban is probably going to impress at the Siege)

VIth - Not too sure actually

VIIth - Sigismund, Rann

VIIIth - Sevatar (and Skraivok with his Daemonsword was getting the better of Raldoron)

IXth - Raldoron, Amit, Azkaellon

Xth - No idea

XIIth - Khârn, Delvarus

XIIIth - Tauro Nicodemus, Eikos Lamiad

XIVth - probably Typhon

XVth - Sanakht (disqualifying the Fellowship Captains)

XVIth - Abaddon (Kibre and Aximand are no slouches either)

XVIIth - Erebus (Possessed Argal Tal was extremely dangerous)

XVIIIth - No idea...Numeon?

IXXth - Sharrowkyn

XXth - Sheed Ranko, Dynat?

[Dumah]

Maybe Bjorn for the VIth? Bion Henricos and Shadrak Meduson for the Xth?

Edited March 21, 2020 by Dumah

[bluntblade]

Khârn and Abaddon are both legendary throughout the Legions, as mentioned by characters in the books. Whether they're duelists or not, I'm wondering about the really renowned combatants and if the representatives from the less likely Legions are ever identified.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Theres being renowned, and being part of the twenty or so "great warriors" . Khârn was never mentioned on that list in universe.

[bluntblade]

Maybe he's not specifically mentioned in those instances, but Argel Tal remarks that Khârn's reputation is known throughout the Legions compared to Delvarus', and Orfeo, who Khârn didn't even seem to know of, specifically refers to his reputation. The fact that Templar presents Khârn opposite Sigismund (and I'm not getting into the matter of him losing the spar), just as it does Alajos and Jubal, is clearly meant to place all four of them in that bracket of the absolute elite. It's a question of framing.

 

Once you've got total strangers shouting "face me!" across a battlefield, you've made it in Legiones Astartes terms ;)

Edited March 21, 2020 by bluntblade

[Tyrannicide]

Skraivok wouldn’t be on the list, as Raldoran’s response to his challenge was straight up “never heard of you.” It’s a hard list to compose if we’re talking “best” legionaries out of the 18/20. A few legionaries are consistently on the list from different authors perspectives, and that’s obviously what would form the core. The list wouldn’t consist of equal representation and some legions would not have a name on it. Others might have 2 or even 3 (DA and Ultras come to mind based off size alone).

[bluntblade]

I was thinking Sevatar for the list, he's regularly mentioned. We're talking who might be the candidate for those Legions which lack a Sev, Sigismund or Abaddon.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Maybe he's not specifically mentioned in those instances, but Argel Tal remarks that Khârn's reputation is known throughout the Legions compared to Delvarus', and Orfeo, who Khârn didn't even seem to know of, specifically refers to his reputation. The fact that Templar presents Khârn opposite Sigismund (and I'm not getting into the matter of him losing the spar), just as it does Alajos and Jubal, is clearly meant to place all four of them in that bracket of the absolute elite. It's a question of framing.

 

Once you've got total strangers shouting "face me!" across a battlefield, you've made it in Legiones Astartes terms ;)

Again, there's difference between being famous/notorious as a member of high command and being part of the "great fighters" . Khârn is equerry to the most unstable primarch and is basically his legions equivalent of first captain. Hes never been dropped on the list, from anyone, and that's telling since he is widely known across the legions.

[bluntblade]

I disagree. Orfeo references Khârn's "reputation" when they're blade to blade, and I don't see what else he'd be referring to in that moment but skill in battle. Loken recognises him as the guy whose kill-streaks make a Son of Horus step back.

 

I've never seen anyone talk about him reverently as an equerry or commander, even though they probably should given his circumstances.

 

And again, Templar specifically puts Sigismund in situations with three cousins who are clearly meant to be close to his level (the Rule of 3 is the tell there) as part of exploring his character. Khârn is one of those, demonstrating that like Alajos and Jubal, he belongs to that select few.

[Marshal Rohr]

It’s really just Sigismund and Abaddon at the end of the day. They’re the only two that ‘made it’ and didn’t need any chaos juice to be renowned before the Heresy broke out. Anuj specifically refers to Sigismund as an Achilles like figure, and Achilles is famous for getting killed dishonorably with a bow, not for losing a fight.

 

Edit: And Sevatar is normally included in the title card list

Edited March 22, 2020 by Marshal Rohr

[Brother Styphus]

I mean that's your opinion,  and the characters in the novels don't share it. 

Edited March 22, 2020 by Brother Styphus

[Marshal Rohr]

That’s a pretty dumb take since all of the characters mention Abaddon and Sigismund and a smattering of others thrown around in addition to those two. I can’t think of a single time Abaddon or Sigismund has been left off the list of Great Warriors in any of the Heresy novels. So yeah, the do share it. Edited March 22, 2020 by Marshal Rohr

[StrangerOrders]

The fact that no one has mention Cyrius, Abdemon or Akurduana on this list offends my soul

 

Holguin was pretty deadly as well iirc.

[b1soul]

"Skraivok wouldn’t be on the list, as Raldoran’s response to his challenge was straight up “never heard of you.”"

 

Yes, just pointing out his Daemonsword gave him the upper hand against the likes of Raldoron

 

Without it, Skraivok is just a SM captain who is more than passable (but obviously not amazing) with a blade.

[bluntblade]

The fact that no one has mention Cyrius, Abdemon or Akurduana on this list offends my soul

 

Holguin was pretty deadly as well iirc.

I should stress that I'm just going for the very select few. Got a short story in the works that does the "referencing the Great Warriors" thing and wanted some outside-the-box examples. So was thinking Lamiad or Orfeo for the Ultramarines, that sort of thing.