Oshikai Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 I am doing the 60:40 Deal with a Mate of mine. But I was allready planing to buy some Incursors and I play Blackmanes and love the Sculpt. Didn`t have to think twice. But I get why people would have wished for more, was hoping for an Invictor in there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/362721-saga-of-the-beast-rules/page/5/#findComment-5495039 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain_Stormeyes Posted March 23, 2020 Author Share Posted March 23, 2020 I would also be interested in how many to spent before Game. i usually take one extra Relic in the Armor of Russ for my RP. Would also like some Veteran Intercessors, but an extra Warlord Trait would also be nice... That way lies Madness. I don't think an extra relic for 1 CP and an extra warlord trait for 1 CP are awful, if you can take advantage of it. My usual is Smash Jarl with Wulfen Stone and Saga of Wolfkin. Being able to add in Armor of Russ, one of the new relics, or a warlord trait to counter the enemy (Saga of Beastslayer anyone?). Oshikai 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/362721-saga-of-the-beast-rules/page/5/#findComment-5495040 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oshikai Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 (edited) Was thinking of Beastlayer as well, other over on Facebook are raving over Saga of the Hunter, to be honest I had all forgotten about that one because I never went past Wulfkin , need to play more Edited March 23, 2020 by Oshikai Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/362721-saga-of-the-beast-rules/page/5/#findComment-5495044 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 There are many combos that will be fun TH jump Wolf lord with beastslayer and bolts of morkai (mortal wound and reroll all 1s to wound on target) Rerolling all hits and virtually all wounds No longer need a battle leader Oshikai 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/362721-saga-of-the-beast-rules/page/5/#findComment-5495046 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sturguard Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 I'm not sure how many of the brothers are locked in their homes at this point. But the two games I spoke of were done with some mates on Tabletop Simulator. So if you have a bunch of good mates willing to let you try the new stuff you need only pay $20 and then download and play to your hearts content. I think this will help alleviate some concerns or our brothers which can be warranted as well as help the brothers itching to try the new toys a chance. There are a good amount of SW specific models made and I used a grey generic legion for the things I was missing as that's the colour for my Great Company anyway. I'm looking forward to getting the book for the fluff and rules and then trying everything to its fullest amount. The Wolftime hasn't come yet, but I have a feeling we will see it on the horizon when 9th drops. Just got my 1st game in today. Absolutely love it...this digital wolf was playing vassal40k in the old days. The 3D models and tools on TTS are AMAZING!!! This is a screenshot from this morning. I am making it huge so you can appreciate the models Tigerius, How do I get into something like this? Is it easy? Do I need to upload my own images? Thanks, Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/362721-saga-of-the-beast-rules/page/5/#findComment-5495049 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 I'm not sure how many of the brothers are locked in their homes at this point. But the two games I spoke of were done with some mates on Tabletop Simulator. So if you have a bunch of good mates willing to let you try the new stuff you need only pay $20 and then download and play to your hearts content. I think this will help alleviate some concerns or our brothers which can be warranted as well as help the brothers itching to try the new toys a chance. There are a good amount of SW specific models made and I used a grey generic legion for the things I was missing as that's the colour for my Great Company anyway. I'm looking forward to getting the book for the fluff and rules and then trying everything to its fullest amount. The Wolftime hasn't come yet, but I have a feeling we will see it on the horizon when 9th drops. Just got my 1st game in today. Absolutely love it...this digital wolf was playing vassal40k in the old days. The 3D models and tools on TTS are AMAZING!!! This is a screenshot from this morning. I am making it huge so you can appreciate the models Tigerius, How do I get into something like this? Is it easy? Do I need to upload my own images? Thanks, Buy tabletop simulator on steam ($20) Find the tabletop simulator 40k discord group (reddit has easy to find instructions) Download the archive pack Get battlescribe TTS tool from steam workshop. This is awesome and you basically select your BS army file and it generates a code that you enter in TTS. You tell it which model is which BS entry and save it for future usage. Hardest lesson was using allies. Just save everything to your private saved objects then run the battlescribe tool after (this will make sense later) Takes 1 to 2 hours to figure out (there is a YouTube video) After that you can load an army and ITC mission and map instantly and you are in pre game mode with opponent Actual tools and interface are pretty good. Dice app and interaction is easy Worst part is measuring distance through buildings can be buggy. I love it so far Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/362721-saga-of-the-beast-rules/page/5/#findComment-5495051 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteySödes Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 Let’s take this to another thread brothers. TiguriusX 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/362721-saga-of-the-beast-rules/page/5/#findComment-5495064 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 So I had a good look at the rules and discussed them in detail with a friend. We both think SW are rather impressive. Most obvious boost: -One of the best Primaris heroes -Some of the very best strats of any Astartes -Some good relics, great when combined with certain rules/situations. Overall I don't feel a SW army should be focused on close combat to the exclusion of everything else. They are so good in CC that you only need a unit or two and a dedicated character to erase whole swathes of infantry or other units off the board in assault. PeteySödes and Wolf Guard Dan 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/362721-saga-of-the-beast-rules/page/5/#findComment-5495098 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteySödes Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 So I had a good look at the rules and discussed them in detail with a friend. We both think SW are rather impressive. Most obvious boost: -One of the best Primaris heroes -Some of the very best strats of any Astartes -Some good relics, great when combined with certain rules/situations. Overall I don't feel a SW army should be focused on close combat to the exclusion of everything else. They are so good in CC that you only need a unit or two and a dedicated character to erase whole swathes of infantry or other units off the board in assault. Definitely. This hasn’t changed though, long fangs have always been so good and reliable when supported correctly. I’ve always played with a pretty healthy shooting component though, it just helps the target saturation. “ “Long fangs and the short dreads are going to kill NOW, you really want to target those wulfen/WG for later?” :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/362721-saga-of-the-beast-rules/page/5/#findComment-5495114 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 So I had a good look at the rules and discussed them in detail with a friend. We both think SW are rather impressive. Most obvious boost: -One of the best Primaris heroes -Some of the very best strats of any Astartes -Some good relics, great when combined with certain rules/situations. Overall I don't feel a SW army should be focused on close combat to the exclusion of everything else. They are so good in CC that you only need a unit or two and a dedicated character to erase whole swathes of infantry or other units off the board in assault. Definitely. This hasn’t changed though, long fangs have always been so good and reliable when supported correctly. I’ve always played with a pretty healthy shooting component though, it just helps the target saturation. “ “Long fangs and the short dreads are going to kill NOW, you really want to target those wulfen/WG for later?” :D I just realized there is a long fang and morkai bolts combo Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/362721-saga-of-the-beast-rules/page/5/#findComment-5495124 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulwyf Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 So I had a good look at the rules and discussed them in detail with a friend. We both think SW are rather impressive. Most obvious boost: -One of the best Primaris heroes -Some of the very best strats of any Astartes -Some good relics, great when combined with certain rules/situations. Overall I don't feel a SW army should be focused on close combat to the exclusion of everything else. They are so good in CC that you only need a unit or two and a dedicated character to erase whole swathes of infantry or other units off the board in assault. My best list before this was a Dread list with tons of dreds, Logan on foot and a Stormwolf with WP/Wulfen. It gave the opponent fits trying to deal with so much viable targets. I didn't need to overdo it on CC because the Wulfen/WP combo was great in someone's back line or taking out high value targets. The dreads would be more than good in CC with a venerable up there with a blizzard shield and Redemptors do serious work in CC. After the changes I think my list can stay almost the same. I'm thinking of dropping the Stormwolf combo completely and going with long fangs and an executioner instead. The dreds can do enough in CC that the new buffs just add to what they and the characters can do. I'd like to find a way to get Ragnar in there but I think he'll need his own Repulsor with some primaris grunts in there with him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/362721-saga-of-the-beast-rules/page/5/#findComment-5495140 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulwyf Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 (edited) Like say this list which has Logan, Bjorn and Njal with enough high value targets to give someone pause. Might swap out the other RP for an Iron Priest to try and heal up the vehicles. ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) [31 PL, 513pts] ++ + HQ + Logan Grimnar [9 PL, 140pts]: Warlord Njal Stormcaller [7 PL, 115pts]: 2. Tempest's Wrath, 3. Murderous Hurricane, 5. Storm Caller + Troops + Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 86pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle . 4x Intercessor . Intercessor Pack Leader: Chainsword Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 86pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle . 4x Intercessor . Intercessor Pack Leader: Chainsword Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 86pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle . 4x Intercessor . Intercessor Pack Leader: Chainsword ++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) [35 PL, 549pts] ++ + HQ + Rune Priest [6 PL, 100pts]: 1. Living Lightning, 4. Fury of the Wolf Spirits, Bolt pistol, Psychic hood, Runic armour, Runic staff + Elites + Redemptor Dreadnought [10 PL, 155pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Onslaught Gatling Cannon Redemptor Dreadnought [10 PL, 155pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Onslaught Gatling Cannon Venerable Dreadnought [9 PL, 139pts] . Fenrisian Great Axe and Blizzard Shield: Blizzard shield, Fenrisian great axe, Heavy flamer ++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) [53 PL, 1CP, 935pts] ++ + HQ + Bjorn the Fell-handed [12 PL, 1CP, 204pts]: Heavy flamer, Twin lascannon + Elites + Aggressors [6 PL, 111pts]: 2x Aggressor, Aggressor Pack Leader . Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launcher Dreadnought [7 PL, 120pts]: Missile launcher, Twin lascannon Relic Contemptor Dreadnought [13 PL, 170pts]: 2x Twin autocannon + Heavy Support + Repulsor Executioner [15 PL, 330pts]: 2x Fragstorm Grenade Launcher, Heavy Laser Destroyer, Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Ironhail Heavy Stubber, 2x Storm bolter, Twin Heavy Bolter, Twin Icarus Ironhail Heavy Stubber ++ Total: [119 PL, 1CP, 1,997pts] ++ Created with BattleScribe Edited March 23, 2020 by Bulwyf TiguriusX 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/362721-saga-of-the-beast-rules/page/5/#findComment-5495148 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Closet Skeleton Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 (edited) I had a proper look at the SW stratagems and found out your auspex scan variant is rediculous. With tactical doctrine you should have no problem what so ever against Grey Knights who need to spend CP to get any AP on their massed bolter fire. Just throw a transport in front of your army and use armour of contempt and that's one turn of smites that you can shrug off while you use cover and win the shooting match. I would say 1 battalion and 2 specialist detachments for 10 CP. That should give us enough CP to fuel the army through 2 turns and the good units to get into their lines. Alternatively, 2 battalions for 13 CP. Intercessors for one and Incursors for the other. I don't like Incursors that much, BUT they can take the mid field and create target saturation of T4 2W units. 2 Battalions or a brigade are your only real option. Marine brigades were viable even in index 8th ed. Its only 1500 points for a naked wolf lord, a rune priest, a wolf priest, 6 naked grey hunter squads, 3 las/missile dreads, 3 min fenrisian wolf units, 3 quad lascannon longfang units. Throw in some rhinos and plasma guns on the Grey Hunters and swap one of the dreads for a wolfen blob to outflank and that's a decent army that should have a chance at winning most casual games. Infinite command points would always be great but you're better off working from a budget rather than wishlisting. If you don't like Incursors then make your own more spacewolfy ones. Scouts with bolters and knives are already pretty Space Wolfy, toning down the silliness is easy if you just swap out the heads and don't use both of the giant scanners. I would also be interested in how many to spent before Game. i usually take one extra Relic in the Armor of Russ for my RP. Would also like some Veteran Intercessors, but an extra Warlord Trait would also be nice... That way lies Madness. Veteran Intercessors are a trap unless you can bring a transport for them and even then are only really worth it for the thunder hammer sergeant. Spending the cp before the game is a waste if the unit dies before it gets close, if you're going to spend cp on combat buffs better to do so on things that are actually in combat rather than stuff that might get to combat. I guess you can Cunning of the Wolf them but that's more CP and probably want to be doing that with Wolfen. Alternately I guess you can hope your Veteran Sergeant survives and then turn him into a lone wolf. Intercessors with shock assault are already pretty much Vigilus supplement era Veteran Intercessors, then you have the Space Wolf doctrine on top. Intercessors want to be charging to mop up what they failed to shoot to death, just having space wolf chapter tactics and doctrine should be enough for that. The SW portion of that box is just terribad My FLGS is selling it for $150 right now (quarantine discount...his store had to close) Even at 60/40 split none of the SWs I know are willing to pay $60 for it The Incursor/Infiltrator box is $60 by itself and well worth it. You can buy a box of Reivers and there's enough bits to fit out all the Reiver bodies and get 10 Incursors and 10 Infiltrators with more pose variety (only thing that needs a tiny bit of creativity is the backpacks), which gives you 40 wounds of power armour board control. If you don't care about pose variety you can get more Infiltators for cheaper from the Start collecting or will already have them from Shadowspear but its a modeling hobby. Edited March 23, 2020 by Closet Skeleton Zephaniah Adriyen and Oshikai 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/362721-saga-of-the-beast-rules/page/5/#findComment-5495175 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Shepherd Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 Bjorn's free CP is extra good now, and all the more reason to eat enemy character's brains 10 cp Turn 0 extra relic 9 cp Round 1 cloaked by the storm, reroll damage/psychic power, reroll armour save 4 cp Round 2 couple of melee ones, transhuman physiology to keep Wulfen alive 0-1cp (knowledge of the foe) Round 3 melee strat We're going to burn through them real quick. The odd time we play someone we dont need -1 to hit against yeah thats super useful but rare. Njal shines even more for the +1 to cast. Hard to avoid a reroll on an armour save for a stormshield (TWC/LF) turn 1 but gotta hope for good d6 damage rolls I kinda like us being so character driven, really need reroll auras to avoid spending cp Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/362721-saga-of-the-beast-rules/page/5/#findComment-5495188 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 What's the minimum command points we think we need on average per game? I think dual Battalion will become the default for TAC lists. I have been playing my BAs that way for a while. The only reason I haven't gone that route for Wolves was that previously we didn't have so many expensive and mandatory Strats. That is no longer true. Several of the Stratagems from the 2.0 SM dex are golden. Transhuman physiology along is awesome (hello Wulfen). "Duty Eternal" makes Bjorn really hard to shift and "Touch of the Wild" turns any melee character into a blender. Plus we have good reasons now to take an extra relic, possibly a 2nd WLT and definitely a couple of packs of veteran intercessors with THs on the pack leaders. We are going to be hungry for CPs for many builds. Kassill and PeteySödes 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/362721-saga-of-the-beast-rules/page/5/#findComment-5495301 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteySödes Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 What's the minimum command points we think we need on average per game? I think dual Battalion will become the default for TAC lists. I have been playing my BAs that way for a while. The only reason I haven't gone that route for Wolves was that previously we didn't have so many expensive and mandatory Strats. That is no longer true. Several of the Stratagems from the 2.0 SM dex are golden. Transhuman physiology along is awesome (hello Wulfen). "Duty Eternal" makes Bjorn really hard to shift and "Touch of the Wild" turns any melee character into a blender. Plus we have good reasons now to take an extra relic, possibly a 2nd WLT and definitely a couple of packs of veteran intercessors with THs on the pack leaders. We are going to be hungry for CPs for many builds. How do we like the "new" duty eternal? Still using it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/362721-saga-of-the-beast-rules/page/5/#findComment-5495312 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 If anyone has ideas on how we can win vs the grey knights, advice welcome. Since their update, it's been about as bad of a match up as you can imagine. Grey Knights probably win the award for "Most improved by Psychic Awakening". Having said that, most of their shooting is with Storm Bolters so being T4 in power armour is a good start. Ironically, Grey Knights are probably one of the few armies we don't want to get too close to in a hurry. With MW spam, short ranged firepower and nasty melee capability, we probably want to hold them at arm's length for a few turns until our sup doctrine kicks in. Firstly, a couple of units of Infiltrators to screen you will be a good start. Grey Knights normally drop in a lot of units from Reserves and many make liberal use of "Gate of Infinity" to redeploy. Forcing them to deploy outside charge range and Rapid Fire range will hurt them a lot. Next you need some guns to punch through their power armour at range. A couple of packs of Intercessors with Stalker bolt rifles are a very cost-effective way to kill multi-wound models in power armour. Back them up with some Long Fangs with Plasma Cannons for good measure. Wolf's Eye can punch through Tide of Shadows which is handy. Have a Rune Priest with new Wolf Tail Talisman relic and keep him protected. You won't be able to have enough psykers to deny all your opponent's powers but putting a -2 penalty on all nearby powers will certainly make his life harder. Use Chooser of the slain to get an extra round of shooting on any of his units that do drop in from Reserves. Keep your own fighty characters back to deliver the kill blow. Also, investing in tanks is a good idea as GKs are still not strong in the anti-tank department. How do we like the "new" duty eternal? Still using it? Best on Bjorn and Murderfang since they lack Invulerable saves. Good on any Dread though. PeteySödes and Dumah 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/362721-saga-of-the-beast-rules/page/5/#findComment-5495319 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonewolf81 Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 +1 to hit in melee (chapter tactic)now applies to vehicles too, like rhinos? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/362721-saga-of-the-beast-rules/page/5/#findComment-5495410 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorin Helm-splitter Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 Yes +1 to hit affects vehicles most notably invictor warsuits Wolf Guard Dan and Karhedron 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/362721-saga-of-the-beast-rules/page/5/#findComment-5495440 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulwyf Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 Are Invictors worth taking for SW though? TiguriusX 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/362721-saga-of-the-beast-rules/page/5/#findComment-5495554 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karack Blackstone Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 I think once we all collate and assemble all of our options as a force/army... We'll all be howling with glee. I have a good solid feeling about this update. Yes, the performance is going to be somewhat dice reliable. However, if one gets it... Heads will roll. Shields will be splintered. The Red Dawn approaches! Howl, Vlka. Our vengeance draws nigh. Dark Shepherd, GrFlur, TiguriusX and 2 others 5 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/362721-saga-of-the-beast-rules/page/5/#findComment-5495557 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain_Stormeyes Posted March 23, 2020 Author Share Posted March 23, 2020 Are Invictors worth taking for SW though? I think they are, as a "first wave" of threats. 3 of them with flamers deployed in your opponent's face is a great way to take pressure off the Wulfen you have in back field. In ITC, either put them out of sight or put them right on the 9" line depending on if you are going second or first. TiguriusX 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/362721-saga-of-the-beast-rules/page/5/#findComment-5495572 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 Invictors are very useful because they are a threat an opponent must deal with immediately, so it often leaves your other advancing elements unscathed for a turn or two. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/362721-saga-of-the-beast-rules/page/5/#findComment-5495575 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 I skipped the SW ork box and picked up a start collecting primaris SW box instead. We all need more intercessors (this gives me 20). Outflank and arrive with AP2 bolters during turn 2 tactical I'll try and convert the HQ into a ragnar proxy Need to find some invictor war suits though. My pure wolf dream is still incomplete. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/362721-saga-of-the-beast-rules/page/5/#findComment-5495582 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Triszin Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 (edited) wait, is ragnar's saga(warlord trait) the same? Edited March 24, 2020 by Triszin Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/362721-saga-of-the-beast-rules/page/5/#findComment-5495608 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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