Thinking of Starting Orks

[jgascoine011]

Never really thought about orks, but absoulty love the new Ghazghkull model.

 

And with being stuck at home for the next few weeks I thought a new army might be the thing.

 

However i am really stuck on what to take. Never really played them or against them.

 

 

 

Bad Moon Lootas really do seem like a huge crutch for orks.

However they are such a huge CP investment. With More Dakka, Cleaver Spanner and Show Offs, thats 6CP to make them work, with grot shield to protect them turn 1, thats 7 CP. However without the ability to effectivly take out flying units, they feel like a necessity.

Was looking at Flash Gitz, but with them being forced to be free booters, they are not as effective as I would have liked.

 

Ork Boyz seem ok, with the possibility to get up to 5 attacks each, thats alot of attacks.

However with the amout of mass shooting, do they die quite easily this eddition?

 

Mek Guns.

Are they worth it? Im guessing Smasha Guns are they way to go

 

Killa Kans.

These are such funny models but again, are they any good.

Was thinking of a unit of 5 with one of the new Kustom Jobs, either +1 to hit, or -1 to hit. Running with Missiles

 

Death Dreads

Again, another awsome model, very orrky.

But they seem to require the Teleporta to not be shot of the board turn 1, and they are soo expensive points wise

With these and Ghazzy, thats 4 CP to deepstrike them which is insane.

 

 

[Warbringer]

Depends on how you play?

 

I started the Orks back up last year and wanted to get the new buggy models so I started a speed Waaagh and it was a blast to paint.

 

its a blast to play with too and lots of Dakka.

[jgascoine011]

I want an all round army, has a bit of shooting, bit of magic, but more combat focused.

 

Was looking at scrapjets but they dont seem to do much for their points, WS4+ hurts in reality.

 

Also orks need something that can deal with flyers, More Dakka helps with this but there are very few units worth taking it on.

[Warhead01]

 

Also orks need something that can deal with flyers, More Dakka helps with this but there are very few units worth taking it on.

Dakka jets,  storm boys and even Burna boys work on Flyers. Don't overlook Mek Gun either.  Smasha Guns are really good.

 

[jgascoine011]

Yea Smasha Guns do look good.

My fear is something like tripple dark eldar void raven bombers. With the -1 to hit strat, even Smasha Guns are hitting on 6s

 

Anyway I had a thought and come up with a half decent list. 

It doesnt have Gazkull but does have 3 Deff Dreads which could be swapped out for Gaz.

 

Its a bit early but the Kustom Jobs.

Can you only take 2 or can you spend CP to take as many as you like, just no dublicates?

[01RTB01]

Whilst you've got CP spend away!!!

 

As for anything else.

 

Anything can be blown apart in a round easily. Point is having target saturation and playing missions.

 

Also depends what your mates are like to play too...

[jgascoine011]

The Blitza-Bommers, can they drop both their bombs in the same turn?

If so, their MW output could be insane

[toaae]

Welcome to our little part of the Bolter and Chainsword! Don't mind the smell; it's just everywhere. Allow me to answer your questions:
 

Bad Moon Lootas really do seem like a huge crutch for orks.

Actually, Lootas are getting used less frequently these days. They certainly have a good role, but as you noticed, they are incredibly CP-thirsty. I do think they work fine without dumping More Dakka! and Showin' Off on them everyturn, but they do need at least Grot Shields every turn, because their survivability to cost ratio is very low. Alternatively, we're seeing people run a big mob of Tankbustas or just no big shooting unit at all.

 

One thing to consider starting with is 3 Deathskullz Big Meks with Shokk Attack Guns. Give one of them the DA Souped-Up Shokka, and you have a strong core of shooting that is also safe against anything other than snipers.

 

Was looking at Flash Gitz, but with them being forced to be free booters, they are not as effective as I would have liked.

Flash Gitz are a hard unit to use. They are incredibly deadly, and are especially good if you figure to run against a lot of Primaris marines. But they are expensive, don't get a clan unless you go with Freebootas, which is also a difficult clan to get. Because of the whole clan thing, they can't be double-fired using Showin' Off, which reduces the value they'd get from More Dakka! Their stratagem from Psychic Awakening can make up for their short range, but it's another expensive one at 2CP. I certainly think they have play, but I'm not sure what the best practice is. 

 

Ork Boyz seem ok, with the possibility to get up to 5 attacks each, thats alot of attacks.
However with the amout of mass shooting, do they die quite easily this eddition?

They die incredibly easily. But they're still exceptional, because they are very effective for their cost and they can control the board very well. I wouldn't focus on stacking attack buffs as a strategy; obviously, if you know a unit is about to charge, they could use as many attacks as you can give, but the more important thing is that the boys make the charge (hence why Evil Sunz is considered the best) and that you can wrap a unit to protect the boyz and shut down enemy shooting. 90-150 boyz are what we see in the best armies, protected by a Kustom Force Field for the first turn (at least).
 
 

Mek Guns.
Are they worth it? Im guessing Smasha Guns are they way to go

Mek Gunz are very efficient, especially with the Smasha Gun. In addition, the new Psychic Awakening adds a subkultur that gives them re-roll 1s to hit, making them even better. They are static and reliant on having good lines of sight, but they are very effective. At the top levels of tournament play, they aren't used as much because they are easily wrapped, but at anything other than the largest tournaments with the best players, they are still a good unit.
 
 

Killa Kans.
These are such funny models but again, are they any good.
Was thinking of a unit of 5 with one of the new Kustom Jobs, either +1 to hit, or -1 to hit. Running with Missiles
 
Death Dreads
Again, another awsome model, very orrky.
But they seem to require the Teleporta to not be shot of the board turn 1, and they are soo expensive points wise
With these and Ghazzy, thats 4 CP to deepstrike them which is insane.

Killa Kans are really bad, though some of the new rules will help mitigate that. Their issues are that they aren't very durable, have a poor leadership, and don't contribute much damage for their points. Like I said, give the the +1 to hit, or the re-roll 1s, or +1 to hit in melee, or whatever, and they'll be better. But they still won't be good. Which is a crying shame, because they are such cool little models.

Deffdreads can be kept cheap (I don't really think a 115 point unit is that expensive), but I do agree that running across the table probably won't accomplish much, unless you're flooding the board with similar targets (in which case, you probably don't have the points). Tellyporta-ing them seems to be the best use for them, but it's still not exceptional. I'm not sure how to use them well.


RE: Your other questions
For anti-air, anything with strong shooting and More Dakka! is our best answer, so Lootas, Tankbustas, or the Big Mek with the relic SAG.

Scrapjets are actually very good for their points, and while WS4+ isn't ideal, their shooting is solid, their melee weapon is mean, and they deal mortal wounds on the charge. As with all buggies, they really benefit from being Deathskullz. Also, their new kustom job is nuts; a fight again strat means they can go deep into enemy lines and tag something so it has to fall back and miss a turn of shooting.

Speaking of Kustom Jobs, the stratagem doesn't say "Once per battle", so we can use it as many times as we'd like.

Blitza-Bombas cannot drop both bombs in one turn. Neither bomba was good, but there's an argument now for the Burna Bomba, after Psychic awakening gave it the ability to chain its bomb onto a nearby enemy unit, and the auto-explode strat (Blitzas only do d3 MWs, but Burnas do a flat 3)

[Lord_Caerolion]

I loved the idea of Blitza Bommers back in 7th, not convinced they have that same impact in 8th.

[zero88]

 

Death Dreads

Again, another awsome model, very orrky.

But they seem to require the Teleporta to not be shot of the board turn 1, and they are soo expensive points wise

With these and Ghazzy, thats 4 CP to deepstrike them which is insane.

I thought a squad of 3 Dreads could be tellyported paying one time for it?

[Kaldoth]

A mob of Deff Dreads is only 2 CP to deep strike. Just comes to a total of 4 CP if you plan on deep striking Ghaz too. Deff Dreads are a great unit when combined with tellyport. Skip the guns and go for a full close combat loadout.

 

If you're worried about flyers specifically, traktor Kannons are your best bet. Auto hit and 2d6 to damage picking the highest. They also auto crash and burn enemies if they die to the damage. Dakkajets are a good option too. They hit on a 4+ if you fire all the Supa Shootas at a single target (which why wouldn't you). Add in long uncontrolled bursts and youll get another +1 against flyers to retain that 4+. Make them bad moons and youre rerolling 1s to hit.

 

Boyz are a staple in any list. There's a saying amongst ork players that goes "Boyz before toyz." You want lots of them. Ork armies work via target saturation. Because our armor saves are the worst you can get, you have to flood the board with big mobs and lots of targets. There's another saying that I personally go with when I build lists, and that's "two is one, one is none." Chances are if you take a single unit of something it's not going to do anything for you. I always take multiples for when the first one eventually gets shot off the board.

 

Flyers weren't bad at all before PA IMO, and with the new strats in PA their MW output is ridiculous. I'll personally be running two burna Bommas with the arsonists subkulture. 3+ mortal wounds, 5+ MWs chaining to another squad for 1 CP, and then 3 automatic mortal wounds with another 1 CP strat when the bomma has dropped it's payload.

 

The good thing about Orks is that regardless of kulture, Boyz and nobs are good in close combat and have an in built charge reroll mechanic on top of load of attacks. You have an entire phase of the game where you'll rarely use CP to reroll dice, so it allows you to be a little more flexible with how you spend your CP pregame and during. The only time Ive found myself using cp rerolls in the assault phase is for saves. Add on top of that you can build a batallion for 214 points (30 Gretchen and 2 weirdboys) and you can absolutely get 12-15 CP easily.

Edited March 24, 2020 by Kaldoth

[XIXWYRMEXIX]

As toaa said welcome to da boyz!

 

Basically everything toaa and kaldoth said. As far as kans go before the new PA they were terrible. Now, while not a top tier unit, they are at least viable with the grot culture. However note that without the grot culture they are not worth it. So unless your going with a grot detachment do not take them. I already have 6 of them and love them so I am fielding mine in a grot detachment. It is everything toaa said about them, awesome little models, cool fluff and backstory. Shame they suck this edition. 

 

About deff dreads... I have 5 deffdreads and am planning on the max 9. I love deff dreads, ork walkers in general. In my opinion they are good units if you take enough of them. Just look at them as like the boyz, "boyz before toyz" If you take small numbers the dreads will not be very viable. 3 dreads will give you some options. How well they do will also be affected by how you are fielding them (i.e. footslogging, teleyporta, etc.). The new orkimatic pistons can really help them possibly as well. I am looking at that kustom job for my walkers right now.

 

Boyz… "Boyz before toyz" is real. While there are other list "types" that do not field a green tide (some speed freaks lists/evil sunz with lots of buggies and bikes and moving fast, toaa's 8 toughness lists which are interesting, etc.), the classic green tide is great for pure saturation as both toaa and kaldoth said. Yes ork boyz die easily in this edition, but they died easily in other editions too. It is how it is with the boyz. You will be taking out handfuls EVERY turn. Get used to that. It is why you field so many. In this edition it seems to me you need even more than previous editions, I used to be able to field 90-120, this edition for me I think I need 120-180. Toaa's 90-150 is excellent advice.

 

On CP... CP is easy to farm with orkz. In 2k points lists I already have multiple lists with 18-25 CP. Triple battalions are not hard to get, and I have some brigade plus 2 battalions lists I will be testing out as soon as I am actually able to play again. 

 

I wanted flashgitz but with the clan restriction I think they suck right now. The freebootaz clan rules are terrible. I do not think they are worth it personally right now (though I might try them out eventually, I love the models and statlines). I can not comment on the fliers as I do not own any at the moment. 

 

Your mileage may vary.

Edited March 25, 2020 by XIXWYRMEXIX

[XIXWYRMEXIX]

 

Death Dreads

Again, another awsome model, very orrky.

But they seem to require the Teleporta to not be shot of the board turn 1, and they are soo expensive points wise

With these and Ghazzy, thats 4 CP to deepstrike them which is insane.

I thought a squad of 3 Dreads could be tellyported paying one time for it?

 

 

Yes, you can teleporta in 3 dreads paying one time for it. Which is what he did. The strat is 2 CP each time you use it. So as he has listed, 2 CP for the dread mob, 2 CP for ghazzy, for a total of 4 CP to teleporta them both onto the battlefield. The strat is not a 1 CP strat, it is 2 CP to use each time.

[Kaldoth]

Also, as a kind of side not as it got brought up before, the Freebooters clan trait isn't as terrible as most people think it is if you run two Shokk Attack Guns, especially if one is the relic from Vigilus Defiant. It definitely requires a little more tactical know wotz and a bit of kunnin, but I've seen that clan trait used to devastating effect. Light vehicles, small units, etc are prime targets for SAGs. Peel the last wound off of one thing in the shooting phase and anything within 24" of that Mek is now on BS4+ or 3+ depending on the unit. Those Lootas people worry about dumping CP into become a monster in the shooting phase when they're hitting 50% of the time as opposed to 33% of the time. I'm not saying it's the strongest trait in the book by any means, but if you're meticulous with your target selection and good at estimating damage on the fly, it changes how Ork shooting works entirely.

[jgascoine011]

Also, as a kind of side not as it got brought up before, the Freebooters clan trait isn't as terrible as most people think it is if you run two Shokk Attack Guns, especially if one is the relic from Vigilus Defiant. It definitely requires a little more tactical know wotz and a bit of kunnin, but I've seen that clan trait used to devastating effect. Light vehicles, small units, etc are prime targets for SAGs. Peel the last wound off of one thing in the shooting phase and anything within 24" of that Mek is now on BS4+ or 3+ depending on the unit. Those Lootas people worry about dumping CP into become a monster in the shooting phase when they're hitting 50% of the time as opposed to 33% of the time. I'm not saying it's the strongest trait in the book by any means, but if you're meticulous with your target selection and good at estimating damage on the fly, it changes how Ork shooting works entirely.

 

Problem with that is i would rather shoot twice with lootas than get +1 to hit

[jgascoine011]

Right had a wee think.

 

Lootas.

While these units can be amazing, i really think you need to design list around these.

That means lots and lots of grots, in order to generate the CP required, which is not really a game i want to play..

That means i am dropping them and going for Evil Suns, i really love the play style with these guys.

 

So think of the following.

 

Battleforged (+3CP)

 

Battallion: Evil Suns (+5CP)

Kult of Speed (-1CP)

 

HQ

Zhadsnark da Ripper

WLT: Brutal But Kunnin

Da Biggest Boss (-1CP)

 

Deffkilla Wartriike

Relic: Snazztrike

 

Big Mek with Kustom FF

 

Elites

6 Nobz on Bikes

 - 6 Big Choppas

 

 

Fast Attack

3 Scrapjets

 - Corkscrew (-1CP)

 

 

Troops

2 x 25 Boyz

10 Boyz

 

 

Heavy Support

3 Deffdreads 

 - Each armed with 1 Dread Klaw and 3 Dread Saws

 

 

Battalion: Evil Suns +5CP

 

HQ

Wierd Boy

 

Wierd Boy

 

Troops

3 x 10 Gretchen

 

 

Spearhead: (+1CP)

HQ

Big Mek with Shokk Attack Gun

 

Heavy Support

3 x 2 Mek Gunz

 - Smasha Guns