We have a Wolf Lord down (Saga of the Beast spoiler)

[Wispy]

also missed oppurtunity to have Drenn Redblade as an acting Wolf Lord. XD

[Bulwyf]

I think they are culling some Wolf Lords to give Primaris Wolf Lords the chance to show up in the fluff so players can model that for their armies. 

 

I just want Russ in 40k as a playable model. This constant calling it the Wolftime in the fluff really makes me wonder if they are going to finally produce him in 40k. It would sell like hotcakes. 

[Sarto ripped claw]

It's also been several Hundred years in-universe, it used to be a big deal how old and long Ulrik and Grimnar were and had lead the chapter, it stands to reason that Wolf Lords die and get replaced. Happened me with Egil IronWolf, but I'm plowing away with the new Lord (can't think of his name right now). Given that it's been a couple of hundred years, it's logical that some of the Primaris will have made Wolf Guard and that's where we get our new Lords from, whether they keep the old Company emblems or not is kind of a moot point, as it's always been stated some do and some don't. In fact it might make more sense for a new Primaris Lord to maintain the emblem to ensure continuity and prevent a them and us situation.

 

Not trying to promote Primaris here, personally I have none and don't intend getting them, just from an aesthetic point of view.  

 

Problem is there is no scope to make primaris wolf guard units. Without them being wolf guard they will not be abe to be promoted to wolf lord. I get there are primary captains and lieutenatnts but those are just girlyman units been sent over in his "heres your ready made army package" that does not follow our lore or way of doing things.

 

I think the only Thing that would really get under my Skin would be losing Grimnar, would love a Novel that goes more into Depth on him, similar to "Dante". 

 

The Old wolf needs to go through the rubicon to preserve him. GW wont kill him off for a long while then.

He is a Bad ass better than any chapter master (I didn't call him a chapter master as that would be heresy) he needs move love to show, no remind the rest of the imperium just how bad ass he is.

 

 

As a note, none of the information quoted states "takes a new sigil" only "takes on a new name" - there are ways for that to occur without the sigil changing at all, i.e. the Ironwolves could become the Steel-born, the Drakeslayers could become the Stareaters, and the Red Moons could become the Draugrfangs, all without changing sigils if the new Wolf Lord wants the sigil to become his as well. This need not always occur though, they are free to choose, so if they want a different sigil, they can take one - the Great Companies aren't supposed to be fixed for all time.

 

Even the "named after their leader" detail is clearly not fixed, because Krom's Great Company is named the Drakeslayers, not the Sun Wolves, or Dragongazes - it's similar, but not always the same.

 

In the end, there's enough wiggle room that whether you interpret it as "always change names, so always change sigils" or "always change names, but only change sigils if they want to choose a new one", either way can work.

 

At the end of the day it says the new wolf lord chooses the emblem, so he could choose to keep the old one. And I think its already been posted but worth saying again that this was during battle not given time during a great feast or when ever to sit drink and discuss succession.

[Leif Bearclaw]

Oh my God! The Company in charge of the fluff is alstering the fluff to have it say what they want it to say! Oh the horror! I can't take it because I'm too stuck in my ways! Oh wait - this is the Space Wolves we're talking about here - they do things the way they want and change is a way of life on Fenris.

 

 

Changing the goalposts completely here. Nobody's arguing that GW can't change the fluff, but at the same time not liking the change doesn't make anyone some hidebound fossil either (and I really hate this argument, it doesn't help anything ever, 'they've changed something I like in a way I don't, so I don't like this change' is a perfectly valid stance for any one to take). My point was (beyond the first post, which was meant as a somewhat sardonic expression of my personal frustration at the way GW have handled the fluff recently) that this is a change, rather than something that's always been in the fluff. That GW aren't following the precedent they've previously established. You can like, dislike or not care about it, but at least acknowledge that it is a change.

 

It's also somewhat ironic that this change is actually a way to keep things the same, so maybe change isn't such a way of life on Fenris anymore .

[PeteySödes]

*Super snip

 

I'm actually surprised that it's not been noted in other Chapters how many have lost their Company Captains/Masters.

That’s kind of the main point of annoyance though. I don’t want to turn this into (another :P) whine fest but it’s something that should have been done already then. We’ve lost characters that people built armies around quite a few times already.

[Vassakov]

I'm beginning to worry that some of our brothers are overreacting slightly. As Valerian said, we don't even have confirmation of death - only that his ship was destroyed. Still plenty of time for him to be recovered from the Red Sleep or cross the Rubicon following his injuries.

 

And in the second instance, the description we are given is one of a battle in progress - so passing to a second in command is natural and presumably a new Lord will be elected sooner or later (maybe our next Codex?)

 

There's also the issue of the only time we've clearly had the succession described (Ragnar succeeding Berek Thunderfist) it clearly took months if not years - Ragnar has always been described as leading the hunt for Berek's slayer, during which time they remained the Thunderfists until Ragnar ascended. Presumably a Great Company deployed on campaign - as they have been pretty much since the Great Rift opened - would remain under their old sigil until such a time as they returned to the Fang for the succession of the new Wolf Lord.

 

There's also the issue of GW not wanting to totally invalidate the existing iconography, although there's obviously a tension there between wanting to advance the story and yet retain the key elements.

[PeteySödes]

Space Wolves players overreact!? Surely not, I don't like your tone sir...

[Bjorn Firewalker]

I think they are culling some Wolf Lords to give Primaris Wolf Lords the chance to show up in the fluff so players can model that for their armies.

This is a mistake, in my opinion. We know the Space Wolves successors were founded to fight in the Indomitus Crusade (see the Wolfspear), so if Games Workshop wants a Primaris Wolf Lord, the company can easily create a new one for a Successor Chapter, instead of killing off preexisting characters or simply having these characters cross the Rubicon Primaris.

 

Killing off old characters so new ones can replace them, is an insult to the old characters' fans, and can easily devastate sales; see how Marvel Comics' book sales dropped after the company tried to do the same.

[Bryan Blaire]

That’s kind of the main point of annoyance though. I don’t want to turn this into (another :P) whine fest but it’s something that should have been done already then. We’ve lost characters that people built armies around quite a few times already.

So that's the rub of having a set-up like the Space Wolves have - GW has to kill off named characters to show "high level" damage to the Wolves, unless they want to start bringing into the narrative the Lost Great Companies, which can only happen so many times before people start scoffing at the narrative "out" because there are no "nameless Successors."

 

Contrast that to the Blood Angels, who took a vicious mauling at the hands of the 'Nids, with phrasing like "to the brink of extinction" for the Chapter and notes of "no Chapter on Baal stood at full number" and "had lost immeasurable tactical strength, including veterans of centuries, ancient and irreplaceable wargear, and even many Chapter Masters." And the latter two statements were from after the reinforcement with the Primaris. So I would say that the Blood Angels and their Successors have had as bad a mauling as the Wolves, probably worse - but the key difference is that they can have that kind of loss without it really impacting players unless the players choose to incorporate it for their forces, because no one had to be named to be able to write that this level of devastation happened.

 

Now, in my mind, each Great Company is more akin to a Chapter than it is to a standard Company in other Chapters (having much more than 100 Marines in each one - much more), so that colors my view of things some, but just having named all the GC Lords makes it basically impossible to write in devastating impacts of death without disturbing the player state, and I don't think that the Wolves should be spared that more than anyone else.

 

Killing off old characters so new ones can replace them, is an insult to the old characters' fans, and can easily devastate sales; see how Marvel Comics' book sales dropped after the company tried to do the same.

That's ridiculous - there's no personal insult implied by a corporate entity shifting the narrative, that's fan overreaction - that's on the fan personally. Even a bad death isn't a personal insult to a fan, or a collective insult to the fans as a whole, it's bad writing, but unless someone's got e-mails or communication from a decision-maker showing than they ordered someone to do it badly because they wanted to tick people off, its unfounded fan speculation and a personal desire to get angry about it.

 

Marines die - GW hasn't even fully fleshed out all the Wolf Lords enough for someone to be a fan of the corporate depiction of some of them. What may really have happened is that fans attached their own personal views and efforts to something someone else had control over, and they don't like what has resulted - but again, that's on the fans, not the controller.

 

GW won't be "devastated" by the loss of a few folks' money (especially once they've already got the amount they project any one player to realistically spend) because they killed off a mostly undefined Wolf Lord - that's a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fan base of the game. Saying they will is probably one of the more extreme forms of hyperbole present on this board. It's not even in the realm of killing off a 30-50 year run comic book character.

[Wolf Guard Dan]

Let’s ask a better question. How has Engir Krakendoom come outta this unscathed?

[Krakendoomcool]

Krakendoom is cool.

 

He's doing incredible things for the chapter. Fenris would be overrun with Krakens if it wasn't for his efforts every century.

[Sarto ripped claw]

Let’s ask a better question. How has Engir Krakendoom come outta this unscathed?

 

Better question, who plays Engir Krakendoom on the table top?? yes we all love the lore and the SW but none are invincible if it had been Ragnar, ulrik, logan, BJORNNNNNNN!!!! I would have been very upset but this is a completely replaceable character that has not been confirmed dead and even if he is this will still tie in to the lore.

 

 

 

Krakendoom is cool.

 

He's doing incredible things for the chapter. Fenris would be overrun with Krakens if it wasn't for his efforts every century.

 

More krakens will mean less chance of 1000 sons coming back.............. or maybe we can get kraken riders to go along with our thunder wolf riders.

Edited March 31, 2020 by Sarto ripped claw

[Krakendoomcool]

I play Krakendoom on the table, trying to get them all to the table top at some point. Played with about 7 different ones. Then again I can still do that jo matter what happens in the lore. Everygame doesn't have to be set in the most far forward timeline.

 

Kraken riders is a great idea. It's going on the list of things to do one day.

[PeteySödes]

Krakendoom is cool.

 

He's doing incredible things for the chapter. Fenris would be overrun with Krakens if it wasn't for his efforts every century.

 

You're the worst.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

More krakens will mean less chance of 1000 sons coming back.............. or maybe we can get kraken riders to go along with our thunder wolf riders.

I support the idea of Space Wolves kraken riders as a naval unit. Maybe wire the kraken's brain to augmetic controls, and build an armored cockpit atop its internal shell (assuming the beast's anatomy is similar to a Terran squid's), which doubles as either a passenger compartment (see the M2 SEAL Delivery Vehicle) or a weapons mount (see weapons mounted in or atop M2 and M3 submarines, including torpedo launchers, missile launchers able to fire underwater, guns UNable to fire underwater)...

[PeteySödes]

 

More krakens will mean less chance of 1000 sons coming back.............. or maybe we can get kraken riders to go along with our thunder wolf riders.

I support the idea of Space Wolves kraken riders as a naval unit. Maybe wire the kraken's brain to augmetic controls, and build an armored cockpit atop its internal shell (assuming the beast's anatomy is similar to a Terran squid's), which doubles as either a passenger compartment (see the M2 SEAL Delivery Vehicle) or a weapons mount (see weapons mounted in or atop M2 and M3 submarines, including torpedo launchers, missile launchers able to fire underwater, guns UNable to fire underwater)...

 

 

As much as I love this in a "wat?" way, we're getting a bit far afield...  :D

[Spinsanity]

Unless at least one or two of the Wold Lords falls, how is any player supposed to field a fully Prinaris-ed Great Company?

We all know GW wants the line to move towards Primaris. Whether anyone agrees with the decision or not is not what I’m asking for. Just how the   do you let a new player field this kind of army if none of the Wold Lord slots is open for Primarification?

Edited March 31, 2020 by PeteySödes
Don't dodge the swear filter

[Wispy]

Krakendoom has a power spear called 'Longshaft.' This alone makes him the greatest Wolf Lord, i must admit despite my allegiance to Harald Deathwolf, 

[Wispy]

Unless at least one or two of the Wold Lords falls, how is any player supposed to field a fully Prinaris-ed Great Company?

 

We all know GW wants the line to move towards Primaris. Whether anyone agrees with the decision or not is not what I’m asking for. Just how the   do you let a new player field this kind of army if none of the Wold Lord slots is open for Primarification?

 

GW is in an awkward spot where it be weird if they all just crossed the Rubicon but they're also in a weird spot where some random Primaris Marine leap frogs all the other established  members of a Great Company to become Wolf Lord. 

 

I get impatient but basically, the only way out of this is let things unfold naturally as they make and release miniatures that move the story forward.

Edited March 31, 2020 by PeteySödes

[Krakendoomcool]

Krakendoom has a power spear called 'Longshaft.' This alone makes him the greatest Wolf Lord, i must admit despite my allegiance to Harald Deathwolf,

He's just a humble Wolf Lord with a 'Longshaft'. Edited March 31, 2020 by Krakendoomcool

[Guest Triszin]

So, mountain helm on jump priest? Or jump lord/wgbl?

 

 

I want to model him bashing his head into a jet cockpit window

[TiguriusX]

 

Krakendoom has a power spear called 'Longshaft.' This alone makes him the greatest Wolf Lord, i must admit despite my allegiance to Harald Deathwolf,

He's just a humble Wolf Lord with a 'Longshaft'.

 

 

 

Edited March 31, 2020 by TiguriusX

[Bryan Blaire]

Well, and again, this is because I view Great Companies a bit more like Legion divisions/Demi-Chapters in their own right, you can also do what I do and have a Wolf Lord who is like a higher ranked Battle Leader that leads a component that's 75-125-ish Wolves in combat as a sub-unit of a Great Company - they aren't the Great Company Lord that's named, but maybe a "waiting in the wings" potential successor, which is where I could see Primaris that have garnered enough respect fitting pretty easily.

[Sarto ripped claw]

Space wolves follow a line of succession in the way they go from blood claw to grey hunter to wolf guard and the eally old ones long fangs. \For primaris to be promoted therewould either have to be no first gen Space marines left in that great company or that primaris guy has gained more respect than any other wolf guard around. I know our beloed legion and it is still the only legion) took a few beatings but it is not my understanding that we are in such a bad shape that we only have a handful of none primaris marines still available. and for that matter there are no primaris wolfguard, i may have missed some lore specifying primaris have been made wolf guard but there are certainly none on the table top, this would essentially make it impossible for a primaris o beome company master.

 

Maybe im wrong.......

 

secondly replacing all of the chapter masters with primaris is a moot point the only ones that GW will actually push to be changed are the ones in miniature form, yes others will be killed off just to benefit the lore but there wont need to be a line of Wolves going through the rubicon, it will be a natuaral progression.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

Another way to get primaris wolf guard is crossing the Rubicon. Same guy, same respect level, same saga, New Body. Plus in the couple hundred years it's been I would say its conceivable that there are primaris are wolf guard and maybe they get voted up because they have the respect of their brothers. It's a meritocracy so the most important is not time served but deeds done.