lack of CP

[Medjugorje]

Hello brothers,

 

do you have the same problems as I have with our army? I often play the Sword Brother Detachment because its the only one which makes our units as good as they should be in close combat. But with this I need too much CPs.

 

charge out of the LRC / charge after advance is often needed -> 1 CP

Sword Brethren Detachment -> 1 CP

Reroll wounds -> 2 CP 

and sometime hit again ->2CP

If I charge with Helbrecht and another Squad I have always to fear an interruption so I take the 5+++ per Stratagem -> 1 CP

And for sure at least 2 times i take devot push -> at least 2 CP

 

Are the Sword Brethren just not worth it and I spent to much on them? How do you spend your CPs-?

How does your list look alike? I never play less then 2 Battallions to be honest.

[Schlitzaf]

I run a Brigade-Battlalion nowadays. And generally its, SwordBro Detachment, I spend 2CP for first 1-3 turns for Devout Push and Advance&Charge. I reserve 7CP for honor, suffer not and death, 3 CP for Relics and/or WT. Then I have 1-3 CP lefr depending on everything else for Transhuman or a 4+ Deny.

[Hymnblade]

I think the Sword Brethren detachment is often not worth it, yes. Fighting twice for 3CP is expensive enough that it's only sometimes worthwhile. The specialist detachment upgrade and one use of Suffer Not is the same 3CP, and usually doesn't double your damage output like Honour The Chapter does. It also can't target many of our fightiest units.

 

It has its place, but it's not an "every list in every game" thing.

[Schlitzaf]

I think the Sword Brethren detachment is often not worth it, yes. Fighting twice for 3CP is expensive enough that it's only sometimes worthwhile. The specialist detachment upgrade and one use of Suffer Not is the same 3CP, and usually doesn't double your damage output like Honour The Chapter does. It also can't target many of our fightiest units.

 

It has its place, but it's not an "every list in every game" thing.

Its 1CP for Master Swordsman, Suffer Not, just an added bonus. And for comparison sake, a Slamganius actually requires a similar CP investment as a BT Swordsman Marshall. Plus BT Swordsman are 36-40 points cheaper sense we have Teeth of Terra or Judgement as options

[Medjugorje]

I think the Sword Brethren detachment is often not worth it, yes. Fighting twice for 3CP is expensive enough that it's only sometimes worthwhile. The specialist detachment upgrade and one use of Suffer Not is the same 3CP, and usually doesn't double your damage output like Honour The Chapter does. It also can't target many of our fightiest units.

 

It has its place, but it's not an "every list in every game" thing.

especially when I use that Stratagem, I use the other Stratagem too. If a Hero like a Helbrecht fight, he will fight twice and he is so much stronger with "suffer not the unclean".

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

Last time I played BT I was running a Battalion and 2 +1 CP detachments, usually double vanguard. I don't use Primaris or scouts though, so doubling up on bats is a giant pain in the butt. As a result, I don't touch the Swordbrother strats at all, saving my CP for fight again or little 1-2 CP clutch moments.

 

My typical list was something like:

 

HQs:

Helbrecht

Grimaldus

EC

2x Lieutenant

 

Troupes:

2x 5 man shooty Crusaders

1X 20 man blob.

 

Elites:

10X Vanguard with JJs, Storm Shields and Power Swords, leader has a relic blade

3x5 squads of Vets with shields and power swords

Apothicary

Ancient

 

Transports:

2 Drop Pods

 

 

There might be some adjustments here and there, but typically Grimaldus would start on the table with the 20 man blob, a lieutenant, and the 10 jump boys. If I got first turn I'd buff up the jump boys and send them across the line toward a target. Depending on what they could reach, I'd drop my pods down with Helbrecht, Lieutenant, Apothicary, Ancient, and EC plus their 15 angry swordy boys. Then I'd sit back and see how many charges I could get while everyone else charged across the table like mad lads.

 

Did it work? Eh. Sometimes. I'd always make a bloody impact. It was very BT though. But lately I've lost my zeal. I just want the BT to get a good showing in lore and some damn respect from GW. It was getting kind of frustrating playing them when literally every new marine release was crazier.

[Medjugorje]

what I always use is 

 

1. Aurelian Shroud (4++ in one round)

2. Ancient Breviar ( 2 dice for litanies)

3. Upgrade for one Chaplian (I always play one or two) to a Master of sanctinity

4. If I play against psyker then always the special ammo

 

then 

 

like i said

Teeth of Terra / Hammer + Sword Master ( Helbrecht is always my main Warlord)

Sword Brethren Detachment.

[ThirtySixNights]

I'm having similar issues, and it's just because of the nature of the dice. I'm using rerolls every turn.

 

I'd love to get feedback on lists, but nobody seems to do that anymore.

[Medjugorje]

I'm having similar issues, and it's just because of the nature of the dice. I'm using rerolls every turn.

 

I'd love to get feedback on lists, but nobody seems to do that anymore.

I will do it. But in the last years i was just active in this subforum. I will change this so far.

[Panzer]

I'm having similar issues, and it's just because of the nature of the dice. I'm using rerolls every turn.

 

I'd love to get feedback on lists, but nobody seems to do that anymore.

 

Honestly, that's somewhat of a trap one can easily fall into. You should have mostly planned what kind of Stratagems you are going to use before the game begins already and only spend CP on Stratagems that actively help you win the game. That only rarely includes re-rolling a dice to perhaps deal 2 damage more or such.

[Acebaur]

I'm having similar issues, and it's just because of the nature of the dice. I'm using rerolls every turn.

 

I'd love to get feedback on lists, but nobody seems to do that anymore.

Rerolls are a trap. The only time you should use them is on something that will change the course of the game. Most of the time they aren't worth it

 

I'll be happy give feedback on a list, just pop it in the list section and toss me a link

Edited April 8, 2020 by Acebaur

[Marshal Vespasian]

I am always very hesistant to spend a ton of cp before the game. But I feel like chapter master might be worth it. Especially when trying to use thunderhammers/power fists in termi/vanguard/veteran squads.

[SirJyo]

I think the issue is for BT is alot of the abilities that should have been baked into the army/unit rules are CP abilities.

 

There's no winning the cp game without boatloads of troops and scouts are the cheapest. Crusader squads are overpriced, scouts and vets are the way to go.

 

I find myself taking 2 battalions in almost every list for 13cp, usually down to 9 after initial allocation.

[Medjugorje]

A Xenos Inquisitor could be a thing. But the only psychic power which would be good is just for Inquisition units (means just for himself). 

[_luca_93]

Hi guys, i really often read all your topics, with much interest. Particularly, this time, this one.

Talking about Inquisitors, two observations :

 

- I'm the only one whot tought to an Ordo Xenos inquisitor in a Drop pod with Helbrecht, and some Company veterans, for example? There he can also use more fastly Mental interrogation.

 

- Looking at inquisitors, have you yet noticed, Inquisitor Greyfax have an ability very similar to our stratagem? It could be really helpful to our army, especially to the front, again, with the help of a drop pod.
 

[Medjugorje]

I think so. She could be a thing. But I dont know which WL-Trait she have to take so far.

[ThirtySixNights]

 

I'm having similar issues, and it's just because of the nature of the dice. I'm using rerolls every turn.

 

I'd love to get feedback on lists, but nobody seems to do that anymore.

Rerolls are a trap. The only time you should use them is on something that will change the course of the game. Most of the time they aren't worth it

 

I'll be happy give feedback on a list, just pop it in the list section and toss me a link

It's rerolls on litanies I'm using mostly. I take grimaldus because he's great value for the points and does put the hurt on heavy infantry in combat.

 

But it means I can't take a MoS and therefore taking a relic like the ancient breviary is not really so worth it, as it only assures my other single litany chaplain a single reroll.

 

Can we take this relic on grimaldus? Or is he categorically worse for litanies than a standard MoS because of it.

[Medjugorje]

If the litany is very important in your list then (very sadly) he is not worth it. 

[Acebaur]

 

 

I'm having similar issues, and it's just because of the nature of the dice. I'm using rerolls every turn.

 

I'd love to get feedback on lists, but nobody seems to do that anymore.

Rerolls are a trap. The only time you should use them is on something that will change the course of the game. Most of the time they aren't worth it

 

I'll be happy give feedback on a list, just pop it in the list section and toss me a link

It's rerolls on litanies I'm using mostly. I take grimaldus because he's great value for the points and does put the hurt on heavy infantry in combat.

 

But it means I can't take a MoS and therefore taking a relic like the ancient breviary is not really so worth it, as it only assures my other single litany chaplain a single reroll.

 

Can we take this relic on grimaldus? Or is he categorically worse for litanies than a standard MoS because of it.

 

 

No he can't take any relics. However, I think Grimaldus is 100% worth taking. He gives a tremendous amount of buffs both for melee and against psykers. 

[Schlitzaf]

Honeslty on topic of chaplains, anyone else bemused by the fact we get 1 less litany than everyone else save GK. Given we don’t get tje free chapter apecific litany other chapters get (assuming play as RAI and we don’t get IF Litany)

[ThirtySixNights]

Honeslty on topic of chaplains, anyone else bemused by the fact we get 1 less litany than everyone else save GK. Given we don’t get tje free chapter apecific litany other chapters get (assuming play as RAI and we don’t get IF Litany)

We get enough litanies, and other second foundings like Emperor's spears or crimson fists didn't get the extra special new litanies.

[Schlitzaf]

Kinda? More like every other chapter save Grey Knights

 

Get Choose Litany, Litany of Hate, and Chapter Litany.

 

We only get Choose Litany, and Litany of Hate. Hence I wish would get, 2 Choose Litany, and Litany of Hate or something else like that

[ThirtySixNights]

Right, I did forget that those guys get to know their chapter litany innately. It's a little buff to first founding chaplains.

 

Honestly, black templar chaplains should be stronger than simply having their own set of litanies, but I doubt that would happen.

 

Would also like to see crusader squads come down in points, since a half set of reroll 1's isn't better than infiltrate.

 

I hope balancing comes in that fashion, and with other units too. Buffing weaker units is the best way to balance.

 

Honestly the only way to combat lack of CP is to take tonnes of cheap infantry like scouts. I've heretically considered splitting my three crusader squads into half scouts and half tacts. I'd get an extra 4CP instantly and it would only cost me 15 points. (I run 9 man squads)

 

Does that seem balanced?

[Medjugorje]

 

Honeslty on topic of chaplains, anyone else bemused by the fact we get 1 less litany than everyone else save GK. Given we don’t get tje free chapter apecific litany other chapters get (assuming play as RAI and we don’t get IF Litany)

We get enough litanies, and other second foundings like Emperor's spears or crimson fists didn't get the extra special new litanies.

 

thats not true. Emperor Spears are a Ultramarine successor chapter and so they get the same as the ultramarines.

[Medjugorje]

 

Honeslty on topic of chaplains, anyone else bemused by the fact we get 1 less litany than everyone else save GK. Given we don’t get tje free chapter apecific litany other chapters get (assuming play as RAI and we don’t get IF Litany)

We get enough litanies, and other second foundings like Emperor's spears or crimson fists didn't get the extra special new litanies.

 

hmmm.... its not the problem with total numbers - its the problem that their special table (with just one litany) is an additional thing while we have to choose - and thats often a problem. I think so too.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm having similar issues, and it's just because of the nature of the dice. I'm using rerolls every turn.

 

I'd love to get feedback on lists, but nobody seems to do that anymore.

Rerolls are a trap. The only time you should use them is on something that will change the course of the game. Most of the time they aren't worth it

 

I'll be happy give feedback on a list, just pop it in the list section and toss me a link

It's rerolls on litanies I'm using mostly. I take grimaldus because he's great value for the points and does put the hurt on heavy infantry in combat.

 

But it means I can't take a MoS and therefore taking a relic like the ancient breviary is not really so worth it, as it only assures my other single litany chaplain a single reroll.

 

Can we take this relic on grimaldus? Or is he categorically worse for litanies than a standard MoS because of it.

 

 

No he can't take any relics. However, I think Grimaldus is 100% worth taking. He gives a tremendous amount of buffs both for melee and against psykers. 

 

 I believe you want him to do so. OR better said if you throw alwyas the 3+ then he is very good. But if you need the 5+++ and the +1 A then Grim need additional CPs and Dark Eldar/Genestealer could deny that. And he just have 6" movement.

 

Overall he is everything but bad. A MoS with Jump pack and Ancient Breviary is still better.

Edited April 9, 2020 by Medjugorje