Rank the units!

[emperorpants]

Alright everyone, time for a fun thread ranking units! Please order them from 1 (The best unit for Ultramarines) to 10 for the ten best units for Ultramarines specifically. Please also include a rationale for your order. Of course there are TONS of units available, but we would be here forever if we tried to rank everything.

[CCE1981]

I play Ultramarines Successors, so I am not looking at the Ultramarines specific units.

 

 

Aggressors - move and fire as if stationary

Repulsors Executioner - 1/2 move turn one fire twice, full move turn 2 & 3 and fire twice

Vehicles - those without Power of the Machine Spirit, for two turns get a better Power of the Machine Spirit

 

 

The real deal is the army wide buffs and stratagems.

Edited April 10, 2020 by CCE1981

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Intercessors

infiltrators

Tigirius

Calgar

DevCents

[CCE1981]

I’m confused by DevCenturians, they already don’t suffer penalties to moving and firing heavy weapons and can rapid fire hurricane bolters at full range.

[Captain Idaho]

Let's explain our answers as requested in the OP.

Myself, I have a detailed answer but it's 1.30am right now in the UK so I'll share my thoughts in the morning...

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I just wrote a long detailed post then the battery died on my mobile device. Oh well. My list is no particular order because the sum is greater than the whole.

 

Im adding Primaris Ancient to my list.

Edited April 10, 2020 by Black Blow Fly

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I’m confused by DevCenturians, they already don’t suffer penalties to moving and firing heavy weapons and can rapid fire hurricane bolters at full range.

And they ignore cover because of the omniscope. Three of them have more wounds than a predator and can benefit from a Chaplain, regain wounds from an Apothecary or res a model plus Tigurius can make them -1 to hit. Edited April 10, 2020 by Captain Idaho
Removal of unnecessary content

[CCE1981]

 

 

I’m confused by DevCenturians, they already don’t suffer penalties to moving and firing heavy weapons and can rapid fire hurricane bolters at full range.

And they ignore cover because of the omniscope. Three of them have more wounds than a predator and can benefit from a Chaplain, regain wounds from an Apothecary or res a model plus Tigurius can make them -1 to hit. It’s not rocket science.

Tigurius is the only thing Ultramarines that gives them that. I generally don’t follow Unique Characters that closely, unless a Character fundamentally changes how a list operates I just don’t use them. Even then I prefer to make a Character my own.

[Captain Idaho]

Okay, this is a really tough task! Best units mean different things to different people.

 

I think I'll start with where I see the Ultramarines on the table. They are an army that enjoys Command Points as have several really powerful Strategums. Contrary to popular belief, the army can operate across the table fairly well because they can get re-rolls from sources outside characters (specifically valued being Captains).

 

Favouring shooting, Ultramarines work well utilising some assault forces supported by solid firepower, therefore I consider them a true Combine Arms army in 40K.

 

As such, I'll have a little think and produce my top 10 for Shooting, Command Point generation and general units that are great. 3 lists, you lucky servants of the Emperor.

 

Which is really lucky, because being a servant of the Emperor is of course lucky enough as it is.

[Captain Idaho]

Okay here goes. Remember this is from my own perspective, with playstyle and just my own unique experience factoring in on my decisions. It's cool if we don't agree, that's what is worth discussing and enjoying a topic.

 

Note with my first list, I've left off characters because they are specialist models that often have dual roles and Warlord Traits and Relics to be applied. However, a Phobos Sniper Captain and Paragon Vengeance Biker Captain get special mention.

 

Also note there is no Forge World in this list. It's purely Codex and Supplement consideration.

 

Shooting units

 

10. Sniper Scouts

9. Tactical squads

8. Inceptors

7. Land Speeders

6. Eliminators

5. Thunderfire Cannons

4. Devastator squads

3. Aggressors

2. Repulsors

1. Centurions

 

Let me explain.

 

10. Sniper Scouts are in there because they operate as a support to the army that fills the roles of Battalion and Brigades, holds objectives for the army for cheap and yet can still put fire to the enemy, including plinking off wounds of hidden characters.

 

9. Tactical Marines? Folk give them a bad review most of the time but this is actually not fair when considering firepower. To fill out your Troops choices like Scouts do, yet be able to add heavy weapon shots to your army shooting is incredibly underrated. Not game breaking in offensive power but having a couple Krak Missiles each turn, or Heavy Bolters from afar, will really tell. Like Scouts, they operate best in small units behind your more frontline troops so targeting them isn't a priority. Sergeant special upgrade support makes these more offensive fir their investment too.This is why Intercessors work best alongside them ;)

 

8. Inceptors. Fairly self evident. Cheap and really enjoy being in the Tactical Doctrine with their Assault Bolters. Plasma death is always fun.

 

7. Land Speeders. This one could have been swapped with Inceptors but the option for a Typhoon Missile Launcher and Heavy Bolter for sub 90pts, with 2 turns of no hit modifiers and an army that can generate all the rerolls you might like, really swung it for me. Essentially a Devastator squad per model, the firepower is immense for cheap, especially if you've got some tankier units for target saturation.

 

6. Eliminators. Another easy choice, as their sniper rifles are very powerful over the course of a few turns and can be taken in relative numbers for fairly cheap to fill out heavy support roles. Didn't get higher on the list simply because they specialise mostly and sheer killing power pipped them.

 

5. Thunderfire Cannons. Another no brainer as these can put pressure on units relentlessly from turn one, even out of line of sight. Fairly cheap and Strategum support really makes them shine. Slowing down enemies and firing 1 of them twice will make then seem like a steal in points. Building a gunline? Add 1-2 of these with some Eliminators and your opponent will be very frustrated.

 

4. Devastator squads. Almost made the top 3 but their cost and delivery is an issue to be worked around. Any weapons are great but special mention to the 4 Grav Cannons with Strategum and reroll support. Very effective.

 

3. Aggressors. I toyed with their placement alongside Devastator squads and feel I made the right choice here. Being able to fire twice for 2 turns (more with Master of Strategy support) just makes these offensive in the extreme. A true frontline unit that are only held back by poor range, slow movement despite Advancing and the big "kill me" sign painted on their foreheads. Very cheap for their use though.

 

2. The Repulsor just gives out so much firepower on a T8 platform it's hard to argue with this guy. There is some comparison with a Land Raider but whatever variant you take will not have quite the firepower as one of these, though will be harder to kill. A solid choice.

 

1. It had to be. Centurions are very powerful, have long range and benefit from many things Ultramarines can do to boost them. From Tigurius' -1 to hit to a Chief Apothecary's ability to raise one from the dead and heal it in a single turn, Centurions are incredibly decisive. Sure opponents might try and kill them as a priority, with anyone who has let a squad fire each turn will atest to the game winning potential.

 

Now, this doesn't mean other units don't have a place or aren't killy etc, but for pure firepower lists there is little in my mind to counter my choices. I stand by my 9 and 10, since their firepower and place in a shooting army is very much offensive compared to their alternatives.

Edited April 10, 2020 by Captain Idaho

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Great analysis !

[Captain Idaho]

I'm sure it's flawed but I felt it is fairly true. Many thanks.

[Ishagu]

Best units for Ultras:

 

Intercessors

Aggressors

Relic and Mortis Contemptors

TFire Cannons

Invictor Warsuits

Eliminators

Infiltrators

 

I don't rate Centurions at all in an Ultramarine army and have tried using them multiple times. Without movement modification or deployment abilities you have a slow, short range unit or an overly expensive ranged one.

 

Repulsors are still good and have a place, both variants.

 

Impulsors are great in certain builds and unit combinations.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

DevCents are great and due to range of weapons their movement is not an issue.

[Captain Idaho]

Yeah I don't see how Devastator Centurions are considered short ranged. 36" with 4" movement is a 40" threat range. The Hurricane Bolters are slightly shorter reach but how you consider them short ranged when you have Aggressors in a list which are even shorter ranged is perplexing.

[Ishagu]

DevCents are great and due to range of weapons their movement is not an issue.

But I could have tougher units with more firepower for less points.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Okay then switch the goal posts.

[Ishagu]

I'm just saying you can't rate a unit as the best if another unit can do the same job better.

 

Centurions are great, with certain chapters.

[Captain Idaho]

What units are tougher than Centurions with more firepower?

 

I call shenanigans on that, lol!

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Ishagu <(o_o)>

[Ishagu]

What units are tougher than Centurions with more firepower?

 

I call shenanigans on that, lol!

Erm really?

 

Two Contemptor Mortis Dreads with Quad Las Cannons are tougher and have better firepower for a similar cost to 3 Centurions with Las Cannons (cheaper in some cases).

 

Dakka Centurions are OK, but I'd argue 5/6 Aggressors are better than 3 Centurions, especially in an Ultramarine army.

 

If I could get Centurions around the board to make use of Grav it would great, but I need vehicles for that. Suddenly the cost is very high.

Edited April 11, 2020 by Ishagu

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

No one runs Cents with las though. And Aggressors are super overrated. I can make a solid argument terminators are better.

Edited April 11, 2020 by Black Blow Fly

[Captain Idaho]

Well I like to see discourse comparing Aggressors to Centurions but both are different.

 

Aggressors don't cut it to me. Range 18" is just very poor unless you're going to use a Repulsor to deliver them quickly, which is expensive.

 

But some people get mileage out of them.

 

Comparing Centurions to Contemptor Mortis Dreads is a little unfair. They're vehicles, Forge World and Centurions work well with Heavy Bolters or Grav Cannons.

 

I don't really think range is an issue for Devastator Centurions. Unless you're fighting a gun line on the short table edge.

 

But then how is range not an issue for Aggressors in that circumstances?

Edited April 12, 2020 by Captain Idaho

[Captain Idaho]

Once again, this is quite a niche list and it controversially doesn't cover Infiltrators or Incursors, but that is because those units are much more specialised themselves. They can and do find their way into powerful lists but for sheer Command Point generation they will cost a lot of points comparatively speaking.

 

Top 10 list for Command Point and Detachment creation

 

10. Guilliman

9. Dreadnoughts

8. Attack Bikes

7. Calgar

6. Tactical Squads

5. Intercessors

4. Lieutenants

3. Captains

2. Techmarine

1. Scouts

 

 

10. Guilliman. He had to be in it as he generates 3 Command Points, acts like a Chapter Master and Lieutenant whilst also being one of the toughest and most offensive close combat models in the game. Being a Lord of War hurts a little, but like Calgar, if he is used correctly with a list designed to accommodate him, he will support the army and carve through enemies easily. He is high on the list because of his more niche use, as static shooting armies don't actually benefit much from him over cheaper character support, much like Calgar.

 

9. Dreadnoughts. When people consider Dreads they usual assume you know they mean armed with Lascannon and Missile Launchers and today I'll be no exception. These guys are cheap weapons platforms that fill out an Elites slot easily, providing saturation and firepower to a Marines list whilst also fulfilling Detachment requirements to generate Command Points. An easy choice that fits into any list (outside theme). Only reason they don't go higher than Attack Bikes is because of points cost sometimes meaning they don't fit into a list that has already invested elsewhere for vehicle firepower.

 

8. Attack Bikes. Forgot about them didn't you. These babies are fast, quite tough individually and have a decent bit of firepower. Where they truly shine is allowing Marines to finally build Brigades in points games less than 2000pts. 3 of them with Heavy Bolters will fill your Fast Attack requirements if you haven't used any and will cost you 111pts. They also get to play objective camping and can zoom around the table to take an objective you've cleared off opponents for a turn, yet are cheap enough that their loss won't hurt your game. The only reason they don't finish higher in the list is because not everyone builds Brigades.

 

7. Calgar. If you need a beatstick then he's your man, as he also generates Command Points and is a "free" Chapter Master. He doesn't get further up the list however, because he's too slow and requires an expensive transport if he is going to be earning his keep in close combat. If your list is built in the correct way he is very good for his points, otherwise you're better off taking 2 cheaper characters. If he could still be taken in Terminator armour outside Legends he'd be more useful as could teleport in closer to the enemy, by your attacking forces.

 

6. Tactical Marines. That's right, in a Command Points and Detachment based consideration I feel Tactical Marines are valuable. On a personal level I feel the special and heavy weapons of Tactical Marines contribute more, but I'm not biased enough to be blind to the staying power 2 wounds has compared to Tactical Marines. However, if you need to fill up Troops slots to generate Command Points and not compromise on having some killing power, 5 man squads of Tactical Marines are surprisingly good. A cheeky Heavy Bolter or Missile Launcher can take advantage of Mortal Wound generating Strategums whilst a Lascannon can automatically hit each turn, providing a little more power to a list for cheap.

 

5. Intercessors. They are a solid core to your Troops choice for lasting small arms fire. Taking too many of them will weaken your army through their sheer points cost, but there is an argument for a Marine horde army, which Ultramarines can enjoy (as can other Chapters of course) but that is a personal preference.

 

4. Lieutenant. Narrowly missing out on the number 3 slot, but a very nice choice to fill an HQ slot for cheap, whilst providing for the rest of the army.

 

3. Captains. These choices boost your army well, fill out the HQ slot and can provide solid combat potential that fits even in a gunline, all for cheap. The choices available are amazing, with a type of Captain for any style of play. Doesn't have to be Smash Captains, Primaris Captains can bolster the infantry horde of Primaris, Phobos Sniper Captains are brilliant in a gunline, Terminators can teleport in if you've built a pressure based army in need of a leader, or even the stock Captain with Mastercrafted Bolter and Teeth of Terra for 77pts if you want a cheap counter charge or dude in your armoured column.

 

2. Techmarine. The cheapest possible HQ for Marines, outside Chronus in a vehicle you're already taking. Can repair your vehicles, including Primaris and Forge World choices respectively. 2+ save and a BS2+ to contribute to the army beyond repairs; a great HQ choice for any Detachment.

 

1. Scouts. The big winners because they're cheap as chips and a Troops Choice. Able to screen, hang back and objective camp and be a smaller waste of points, provide cheap sniper fire or just a cheap source of a unit that can access Hellfire shells or Flakk missiles, this unit wins outright over all choices for Command Point generation and army building.

[NerdyFellow]

I really appreciate your breakdowns Captain Idaho. I'm super fresh to the game, and they help me get a perspective. Looking forward to your third list.