How would I propose to balance/update our units/rules?

[Medjugorje]

 

I didn't see a way to package this as a downloadable text file, so I'm going to drop my version of the revised rules directly into this post. There are issues with them, and I welcome feedback, but this was my best effort after an initial pass.

 

 

 

 

 

 

5 INSPIRATIONAL FIGHTER 

Friendly BLACK TEMPLARS units within 6" of this Warlord trigger KNIGHTS OF SIGISMUND on unmodified hit rolls of 5 rather than 6.

 

 

LITANIES OF THE DEVOUT

 

1 LITANY OF DIVINE PROTECTION 

If this litany is inspiring, when a model in a friendly BLACK TEMPLARS infantry unit within 6" of this model would lose a wound, roll one D6; on a 5+ that wound is not lost. 

 

 

 

 

 

Stratagems:

 

ABHOR THE WITCH (1 CP)

Use this Stratagem in your opponent’s Psychic phase, when an enemy PSYKER model manifests a psychic power within 24" of any BLACK TEMPLARS units from your army, after any Deny the Witch attempts have been made. Roll one D6; on a 4+ that psychic power is resisted. 

 

CRUSADER RELICS (1 CP)

Use this Stratagem before the battle. Select one BLACK TEMPLARS model from your army that has the word ‘Sergeant’ or ‘Sword Brother’ in their profile. That model can have one of the following Chapter Relics: Witchseeker Bolts, Sword of Judgement, Skull of the Cacodominus, Holy Orb. All of the Relics your army includes must be different and be given to different models. 

 

VICIOUS RIPOSTE (1 CP)

Use this Stratagem in the Fight phase, when a BLACK TEMPLARS INFANTRY unit from your army is chosen as the target of an attack. Until the end of that phase, when resolving an attack made against that unit, on an unmodified save roll of 6 the attacking model’s unit suffers 1 mortal wound after that unit has finished fighting. 

 

SHOCK AND AWE (1 CP)

Use this Stratagem in your Charge phase. Select one BLACK TEMPLARS INFANTRY unit from your army that disembarked from a transport this turn. Until the end of that turn, enemy units cannot fire Overwatch at the selected unit and, when resolving an attack made against that unit, subtract 1 from the hit roll. 

 

THE EMPEROR’S WILL (1 CP)

Use this Stratagem in your Movement phase, when a BLACK TEMPLARS INFANTRY unit from your army Advances. Until the end of this turn, models from that unit can still shoot with their Pistol weapons and the unit can still charge. 

 

OATHS OF HONOUR (1 CP)

Use this Stratagem in the Fight phase. Select one BLACK TEMPLARS CRUSADERS unit from your army that made a charge move, was charged, or performed a Heroic Intervention this turn. Until the end of that phase, when resolving an attack made with a melee weapon by a model in that unit, you can re-roll the wound roll. 

 

DEVOUT PUSH (1 CP)

Use this Stratagem at the end of the Charge phase. Select one BLACK TEMPLARS INFANTRY unit or one BLACK TEMPLARS BIKER unit from your army. That unit can immediately perform a Heroic Intervention as if it were your opponent's turn, regardless of whether or not it is a character. For the rest of the turn, when that unit consolidates, it can move up to 6" instead of 3". 

 

TENACIOUS ASSAULT (2 CP)

Use this Stratagem in the Movement phase, when an enemy INFANTRY unit that does not have the Flyer Battlefield Role and is within 1" of any BLACK TEMPLARS INFANTRY unit from your army is chosen to Fall Back. Roll one D6; on a 2+ that unit cannot Fall Back this turn. 

 

BLESSINGS OF RIGHTEOUS CERTAINTY (1 CP)

Use this Stratagem before the battle begins. If THE EMPEROR'S CHAMPION is in your army, but is not your Warlord, that unit gains the OATHKEEPER Warlord Trait but is not treated as your Warlord for any other reason.

 

ZEALOUS CRUSADER (1 CP)

Use this Stratagem after nominating a BLACK TEMPLARS CHARACTER model that is not a named character to be your  Warlord. You can generate one additional Warlord Trait for  them; this must be from the BLACK TEMPLARS Warlord Traits table. All of the Warlord Traits your army includes must be different (if randomly generated, re-roll duplicate results). You can only use this Stratagem once per battle. 

 

JUDGEMENT WITHOUT MERCY (1 CP)

Use this Stratagem in the Fight phase, when an enemy CHARACTER model is destroyed as a result of an attack made with a melee weapon by a black templars CHARACTER model from your army. Gain D3 Command Points. If the enemy CHARACTER was slain by the EMPEROR'S CHAMPION, gain 3 Command Points instead.

 

SUFFER NOT THE UNCLEAN TO LIVE (1 CP)

Use this Stratagem at the start of the Fight phase. Pick a SWORD BRETHREN unit from your army. Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of models in that unit for this phase. In addition, you can re-roll wound rolls for attacks made by that unit until the end of that phase. 

 

UPHOLD THE HONOUR OF THE EMPEROR (2 CP)

Use this Stratagem at the start of the Fight phase. Pick a SWORD BRETHREN unit from your army. Until the end of that phase, roll a D6 each time a model in that unit loses a wound. On a 5+, that model does not lose that wound. 

 

 

 

Relics:

As a Successor Chapter of the EMPERIAL FISTS, BLACK TEMPLARS units have access to the Special Issue Wargear found in the IMPERIAL FISTS supplement.

 

THE CRUSADER’S HELM 

Add 3" to the range of a model with this Relic’s aura abilities (to a maximum of 12"). In addition, at the end of your Movement phase, select one friendly BLACK TEMPLARS unit that has a Combat Doctrines ability (see Codex: Space Marines) and is within 6" of this model. Until the start of your next Movement phase, the Assault Doctrine becomes active for that unit, replacing the currently active combat doctrine. 

 

WITCHSEEKER BOLTS 

Select one bolt weapon this model is equipped with (see Codex: Space Marines). 

When the bearer shoots with that weapon, you can choose for it to fire a witchseeker round. If you do, you can only make one attack with that weapon, but that attack can target a PSYKER CHARACTER unit even if it is not the closest enemy unit. When resolving an attack made with a witchseeker round against a PSYKER unit, if a hit is scored the target suffers D3 mortal wounds in addition to any other damage. 

 

THE AURILLIAN SHROUD 

Once per battle, at the start of the battle round, a model with this Relic can unveil the Aurillian Shroud. Until the end of that battle round, models in friendly BLACK TEMPLARS units have a 4+ invulnerable save whilst their unit is within 3" of a model with this Relic. 

 

ANCIENT BREVIARY 

CHAPLAIN model only. When a roll is made to determine if a litany recited by a model with this Relic is inspiring, you can roll two D6 and discard one of the results. 

 

SKULL OF THE CACODOMINUS 

After a psychic power has been manifested by an enemy PSYKER model within 12" of a model with this Relic, roll one D6; on a 2+ that model suffers D3 mortal wounds after that psychic power has been resolved. 

 

SWORD OF JUDGEMENT 

Model with a power sword or one master-crafted power sword only. This Relic replaces a power sword or master-crafted power sword and has the following profile: 

WEAPON RANGE TYPE S AP D 

Sword of Judgement Melee Melee +1 -3 3 

 

THE HOLY ORB 

Once per battle, in your Shooting phase, you can choose for the bearer to throw the Holy Orb instead of making a normal shooting attack. If you do so, pick a visible enemy unit within 6" of the bearer and roll a D6 for every 10 models in that unit (rounding up). For each roll of 2+ that unit suffers D3 mortal wounds. If that unit has the DAEMON keyword then it suffers D6 wounds instead.

 

I think our best litany should be unchanged - its better to declare that on one unit then a infantry aura... Just because Iron Hands have that already. I think we shoulld have our own thing. And its good. Inspiritual Fighter would not help as long you are not in the assault phase which seems not really helpful.

 

Shock and awe should be possible for another transports then LRC but then the cost should rise up. Its okay to have an LRC stratagem. But to be honest - It would be super to have an -1 Damage Stratagem for this case.

 

Blessings of Righteous Certanty already exists in another form

 

the rest is great.

[Medjugorje]

I dont think the EC is that great.

[Brother Christopher]

While my comment adds nothing to the discussion (I haven't enough practical knowledge of the game), I must commend all who contribute for your passion and ideas! For the sake of all Black Templars, I do hope that GW not only hears, but also considers and implements some of your ideas to make our Chapter better. Regrettably, it really does seem like a handicap to pick our set of rules.

[Hymnblade]

I dont think the EC is that great.

For 75 points, he's amazing. He punches above his weight class, and against characters he punches way above his weight class. If he was much stronger, I think it would be hard to justify the same point cost.

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

Medjugorje. Inspirational Fighter could be paired with the crusader's helm to allow a Warlord to double the chances of Knights of Sigismund going off on every round. With my re-write allowing our faction ability to trigger against vehicles, it'd be useful in a number of lists dealing with knights. As for Blessings ofRighteous Certainty already existing? It doesn't. The extra Warlord trait strat doesn't work on named characters, meaning the only way to give the EC his trait is to make him the Warlord, which no BT player will ever do. And with the re-write to the Emperor's Will activating a Heroic Intervention, that means giving the EC his trait would be even more useful than ever.

 

What I primarily tried to focus on with my re-write was increasing the interplay between abilities so that we don't have so many disjointed things working against one another. Once I'd done that I trimmed out the fat nobody would ever take and tried to replace them with abilities I could see being useful now and again, if not the standard pick against all comers. I additionally tried to insure they fet our theme and also mirrored abilities I'd seen elsewhere, rather than building all new mechanics from scratch.

 

I'll bump the cost of Shock and Awe to 2 CP, as it technically applies to drop pods which makes our alpha strikes much more dangerous, and the FNP Litany could go back to a single target with no issues. I only updated it because the infintry aura seemed more of a BT thing than the IH, who probably should have gotten a targetted FNP instead of us.

Edited April 13, 2020 by Marshal Valkenhayn

[ThirtySixNights]

Medjugorje. Inspirational Fighter could be paired with the crusader's helm to allow a Warlord to double the chances of Knights of Sigismund going off on every round. With my re-write allowing our faction ability to trigger against vehicles, it'd be useful in a number of lists dealing with knights. As for Blessings ofRighteous Certainty already existing? It doesn't. The extra Warlord trait strat doesn't work on named characters, meaning the only way to give the EC his trait is to make him the Warlord, which no BT player will ever do. And with the re-write to the Emperor's Will activating a Heroic Intervention, that means giving the EC his trait would be even more useful than ever.

 

What I primarily tried to focus on with my re-write was increasing the interplay between abilities so that we don't have so many disjointed things working against one another. Once I'd done that I trimmed out the fat nobody would ever take and tried to replace them with abilities I could see being useful now and again, if not the standard pick against all comers. I additionally tried to insure they fet our theme and also mirrored abilities I'd seen elsewhere, rather than building all new mechanics from scratch.

 

I'll bump the cost of Shock and Awe to 2 CP, as it technically applies to drop pods which makes our alpha strikes much more dangerous, and the FNP Litany could go back to a single target with no issues. I only updated it because the infintry aura seemed more of a BT thing than the IH, who probably should have gotten a targetted FNP instead of us.

I like shock and awe as is, it's an incentive to take a LRC, and a unique and extremely powerful strategem.

 

Can you imagine impulsors and repulsors using this? Sooo OP.

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

It's not unique or extremely powerful, is the problem. It grants no overwatch, which is handled by plenty of other units and abilities which don't require a 275 point tax. The LRC has a really hard time sticking on the field long enough to get anything done. Even giving it a 4+ invuln and a 5+ FNP, there's just so much shooting power in lists these days, that if they want to kill it it'll die, and that's 1/8th of your army gone. So while it's a solid strat at a very good price, the Crusader itself isn't worth taking to justify it. Broadening the strat makes it usable, which non Primaris players need, especially against armies like T'au.

 

As for it being stronger on Repulsers and Impulsers? Nah. The former could get some use out of it for sure, but the latter is a solid meh. It's strongest use in the new format will be out of drop pods, with storm ravens likely a close second.

[LordValandil]

The extra Warlord trait strat doesn't work on named characters.

 

Just wanted to know where this information was from. I looked at the stratagem and for any erratas and as far as I can tell it does work. Hidden in a Designers Commentary?

[Hymnblade]

There's no such restriction on Hero of the Chapter. Stratagems like the IF "Sentinel of Terra" which grant a second trait to your warlord are restricted to non-named characters, but we don't have such a strat anyway.

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

I went back and checked myself, and yeah. I was wrong about that. I stand corrected.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

We need those three strats from the IF book. The extra WL trait, Special Issue Warhead and Relics. The rest isn't relevant

[Medjugorje]

 

I dont think the EC is that great.

For 75 points, he's amazing. He punches above his weight class, and against characters he punches way above his weight class. If he was much stronger, I think it would be hard to justify the same point cost.

 

But each Lieutenant for less points is a stronger buff character. And this buffs are more effective then one model which must move a long way to proove his strength

[Medjugorje]

We need those three strats from the IF book. The extra WL trait, Special Issue Warhead and Relics. The rest isn't relevant

 

dont think so. We need a bit more. My post at the beginning of this discussion are a few examples. Not everything must be done but those are my main problems with this book. Beside the fact I have to say:

 

Faith and Fury is NOT bad. Its more like "unfinished" and not brought to an end - a lot of things had so much potential but on the battlefield you see the problems with them.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

 

We need those three strats from the IF book. The extra WL trait, Special Issue Warhead and Relics. The rest isn't relevant

 

dont think so. We need a bit more. My post at the beginning of this discussion are a few examples. Not everything must be done but those are my main problems with this book. Beside the fact I have to say:

 

Faith and Fury is NOT bad. Its more like "unfinished" and not brought to an end - a lot of things had so much potential but on the battlefield you see the problems with them.

 

I just meant the rest of the stuff in that book. Not we don't need anything more, more generally.

[Hymnblade]

 

 

I dont think the EC is that great.

For 75 points, he's amazing. He punches above his weight class, and against characters he punches way above his weight class. If he was much stronger, I think it would be hard to justify the same point cost.

 

But each Lieutenant for less points is a stronger buff character. And this buffs are more effective then one model which must move a long way to proove his strength

Of course a Lt is a stronger buff character, because EC isn't a buff character at all. He's a beatstick, and a much better one than any Lieutenant. There are stronger beatsticks out there, with built-in delivery methods, but they cost 2-3x as much.

 

I'm not opposed to making him both stronger and more expensive. But other than making his warlord trait not-trash, I think it's hard to justify making him stronger at the same price.

[Medjugorje]

@Hymnblade - a Lieutenant help your army the first rounds while a champion have to reach combat while a lieutenant help Lasercanons, Plasmaweapons to wound what makes him a better support character then the champion is a "fighting character"...

 

in general buff chars are better most times - and here its not different. A chapter champion with champion of humanity and the relic sword is so much stronger then our emperors champion (he is just more expensive in CPs so far) but you never see them in any tournament list... why?

[Schlitzaf]

Well he isn’t an HQ for Tax Slots. Also also EChampion should be given Litany access.

[Medjugorje]

Well he isn’t an HQ for Tax Slots. Also also EChampion should be given Litany access.

 

would be nice.

 

"Accept any challenge, no matter the odds" is the last of our vows which is not included in the current rules

 

 

(Suffer not the unclean -> Stratagem)

(Abhor the wich -> Stratagem)

(Uphold the honor -> Stratagem)

 

but we cant expect any new Stratagems so far - a Primaris Emperors champion would fit perfect with new rules.

 

 

It should be a buff 12" arround the EC get +1 to hit and every unit is autom. in the assault phase.

Edited April 17, 2020 by Medjugorje