Why no Cadian Models in 30k?

[Hannibal]

Hi all,

 

I just wonder why everybody avoids GW´s Cadian models in 30k. What´s the reason here? I don´t really understand that, because there are plenty of models from the 40k line that are used in 30k (Leman Russ, Drop Pod, Land Speeder, Attack Bike,... just to name a view).

 

What is needed to be a "30k model"?

[Darkwrath121]

The Imperial Army generally seems to be a more visually/materially diverse group than the Imperial Guard of the 40k era. They're a force that has a lot of room for putting your own spin on things. That, combined with the classic art of troopers in greatcoats and fur hats means that models like Vostroyans fit the iconic bill for a lot of people instead.

 

However, while Cadia wasn't settled by the Imperium at that time, as we see from art in Visions of Heresy and the Heresy/Siege series, that 'Cadian' style of soldier is perfectly valid to use :)

Edited April 14, 2020 by Darkwrath121

[Joe]

As Darkwraith121 has pointed out, "Cadian-style" equipment was still the norm during the Great Crusade and Heresy - people just have a preference for other, more diverse appearances.
 
It's certainly made a prominent appearance as of the Siege of Terra series, where it seems to be used as a demonstration of the mass-produced equipment given to the conscripts in preparation for the siege - Misha Savier has done a piece featuring it, and there are other pieces too.
 

[Ryltar Thamior]

The main instance of Cadian style human soldiery that I can think of offhand are, oddly enough, Malcador's Chosen, in a bronze/brown and gold scheme . [there's also some Catachan-looking chaps in the same area] 

I suspect the main reason you don't see more Cadian looking troops in 30k is because they don't look different enough to the 40k baseline for most people - it'd seem a  bit 'copy-paste'. That, and I'm not sure how many people actually *do* Imperial Army forces rather than Solar Auxilia etc. anyway. 

There is one issue, however - the Imperialis (the winged skull) that's rather prominent on various 40k-era Guard plastics, is a bit of an anachronism for Imperial Army in 30k. 

Also, as applies various of the 40k units in 30k that you've cited, it's important to note that a few those aren't just the same models ten thousand years earlier; but rather subtly or significantly different patterns , or at least with different weapon marks fitted to them, etc. 

To be fair and clear, I don't think it's impossible or even inadvisable to use Cadian plastics as a baseline for manufacturing 30k Imperial Army personnel. Quite the contrary. I've used Cadian bitz in my own efforts in this area - although by the time the conversion-work's finished, they don't really look overall like Cadians. 

Everybody's got a different set of standards and expectations as to what an appropriate level of 30k-ifying is. Some are much less 'tolerant' than others; although it's worth noting that with the right fluff justification, there's a surprising amount of leeway that can easily be argued for. Most people would agree that having an entire Marine army in Mk.VII plate would be too far ... but were they IXth, Vth, VIIth, , and were it a force set at the Siege of Terra , then there is a fluff avenue available to do it. I still wouldn't exactly recommend it for the full force, but you see what i mean. 



 

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

As Ryltor said, the most common association I'd make for the Cadian kits in 30k would be Malcador's Chosen:

 

 

In fact, I've got some old cadian kits sitting around that I plan on turning into a small Imperial Militia allied detachment representing a contingent of Malcador's Chosen based off the art above - I'll be making some modifications to help differentiate them from 40k Cadians, but they're certainly a decent base to use.

[Lord Marshal]

Whilst I'm the first person who thinks '30k snobbery' is definitely an overblown association made with the game, if there is one place I've noticed it's head rear it would be with regards to Cadian models. I don't think that it helped literally the only art resembling their presence in the Heresy for a long, long time was the above Malcador's Chosen piece (until the books reached the Siege).

 

To be fair though, I think a lot of it has to do with the Militia just being a very unpopular and somewhat 'unknown' army within the system. Those who take on what is a very unique project err on the pendulum of trying to make what is already a 'special' force even more special, especially when the range of rule options actively encourages it.

Edited April 14, 2020 by Lord Marshal

[Hfran Morkai]

I definitely plan on using Cadian models (removing certain details) in my Militia army if I ever get round to one. Maybe some Catachans too. I'm loving seeing the various militias come up in the Legions card game.

[Gorgoff]

Hi all,

 

I just wonder why everybody avoids GW´s Cadian models in 30k. What´s the reason here?

They are buttugly, that's why.

[Warhead01]

Hi all,

 

I just wonder why everybody avoids GW´s Cadian models in 30k. What´s the reason here? I don´t really understand that, because there are plenty of models from the 40k line that are used in 30k (Leman Russ, Drop Pod, Land Speeder, Attack Bike,... just to name a view).

 

What is needed to be a "30k model"?

Personally I don't like those models at all.  

I really wish GW would drop them from the line and release a different guardsmen, something more grim dark less nearly modern infantry. They sprinkle what would be amazing miniatures in the art but don't seem overly interested in making it happen.  As example in the PA TGG page 68 or 69 there is a guardsmen that I would pay money for and buy in abundance if it were a model I didn't have to kitbash.

[battle captain corpus]

I think the main point for me is that they are aesthetically stuck in 40K. That image just won’t budge. But with some good head swaps and filing off of eagles etc you could cook something nice. :)

 

BCC

[No Foes Remain]

In addition to what has been mentioned I feel as if the models are rather dated and limited in comparison to, say, the Genesteeler hybrids (the 4th gen I plan on using for one of my Imperialis Militia armies) and the Necromunda models (the Esher and Van Saar I also plan on using for some Militia armies).

 

If GW re-newed them and had them on par with all the new(ish) models they'd look great, as such they really don't....

[MegaVolt87]

Yeah I would rather use something like the genestealer cultists as a base to work from than the cadians.

[Brother Styphus]

Nobody is banning Cadian models. The C&M people just want something a little different is all. 

 

Why be the same everyman soldier that has Imperium-standard armor, when I could have a bunch of lasgun wielding knights in fuedal armor?

[Noserenda]

Depends on your local group really, ive seen plenty of Cadians and even Catachans used for them. The main draw of the militia list is really that you can use near any human-ish model for them as covered above and if you go beyond pure GW parts you can get them shockingly cheaply ;) 

Yellowjacket arty crwe 

[Brother Pheidias]

I've seen quite a few Militia armies, and they mainly seem intent on maintaining a distinctively different than the Cadian one, and that seems to be the driving force. I also agree with all the above points, and would definitely want something very different if I were to do Militia at some time.

[m0nolith]

Given the fact that these images are now in the official books I wouldn't be surprised if FW states that the cadian panoply was the same one used for the Imperial Army during the heresy and we start seeing them more on the table, and frankly I'm pretty cool with that. Anything that makes the barrier to entry easier for new players, I'm for it.

Although I do wish that FW would release some sort of resin upgrade kit. Maybe a set of heads and weapons with a Imperial Army icon on the head instead of the standard Astra Militarum one that the Cadians have. Some Vokites would be pretty awesome too!

 

http://img1.reactor.cc/pics/post/Warhammer-40000-%D1%84%D1%8D%D0%BD%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%BC%D1%8B-Horus-Heresy-Wh-Past-5819369.jpeg

[Gorgoff]

FW should release a new army list for a proper human army,which closes the gap between PDF of Imperialis Militia and the elite force of the Solar Auxilia.

[MegaVolt87]

FW should release a new army list for a proper human army,which closes the gap between PDF of Imperialis Militia and the elite force of the Solar Auxilia.

Dorn's Terran levies might fit that bill, or maybe regiments from Ultramar.

[Elzender]

Dang, considering the changes to the Ollanius Pius lore, I'm taking the Imperial Army soldier on m0nolith's picture as the new Imperial Saint

 

 

As for the question, if you have an idea for an army and that includes cadian miniatures, go for it! I think most people agree that the point of the militia lists is precisely to make the army however you want thanks to the huge customisation options. The main reasons as why a lot of people decide to go for something else have been already mentioned, and I think it mostly boils down to their age. The main kit is old, which makes it have some limitations in the level of detail, and at the same time it means that it has been around for a long long time, making it an ubiquitous sight on 40K tables. This has likely lead to them being closely associated with the 40K aesthetic,and thus a lot of hobbyists cannot help but think 40K when they see the characteristic uniform of the Cadian kit. This is actually kinda ironic, considering that 30K is basically a marine fest and that marines are the single most recognizable element of 40K, but the HH range manages to keep a certain distinct aesthetic, mostly thanks to the use of MkII-V marks in contrast to MkVII, but also with army composition.

[Hannibal]

THanks all for your answers right now. There are plenty of ideas in this thread I think personally I will stay away from the Cadian troops, though I´ve got some inspirations on using Catachan models as a base.

 

Thank you all for sharing your ideas!

 

HTG

[m0nolith]

FW should release a new army list for a proper human army,which closes the gap between PDF of Imperialis Militia and the elite force of the Solar Auxilia.

FW did an informal show of hands when it came to one of their events not too long ago in regard to what people would like to see next, and the imperial army according to them seemed the most popular choice.

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

 

FW should release a new army list for a proper human army,which closes the gap between PDF of Imperialis Militia and the elite force of the Solar Auxilia.

FW did an informal show of hands when it came to one of their events not too long ago in regard to what people would like to see next, and the imperial army according to them seemed the most popular choice.

 

 

And what would be a perfect setting to showcase new Imperial Army stuff alongside additions to the existing factions?

 

T-t-tallarn? 

 

I can dream, anyway

Edited April 19, 2020 by Iron Hands Fanatic

[MegaVolt87]

Tallarn would be the obvious choice for a good crossover of 30k and 40k minitures, the only diffrences wold be some small arms, which could be upgrade packs and the vechicles, most of which already exist. I would start there for IA/ IG re-works if I was FW/ GW. Edited April 20, 2020 by MegaVolt87

[Marshal Rohr]

Tallarn might be the best choice for vehicle kits or a new Team Yankee/Aeronautica style Specialist Game, but it wouldn’t be great for Imperial Army as a whole. There’s a scene in Tallarn where Solar Auxilia Veletarii escorting the Imperial Fists Marshal only last a few minutes on the surface before the virus degraded their equipment and this was after the fog had lifted.

[Gorgoff]

Tallarn would be nice for a book regarding the clash of between Imperial Army and Iron Warriors.

Just sayin' 8)