SMM's Legio Fureans

[SkimaskMohawk]

Thanks! I followed a Kenny Boucher yellow method to get the gradient. It's basically just a slow transition and controlled build-up with the airbrush.

[SkimaskMohawk]

I finished up all the energy weapons/effects. I've gone back and added a bit of metal detail to the turbo laser cowling to better give some better contrast.

 

My lore for the black warhound is that it's been freshly salvaged and the machine spirit is very temperamental so they haven't painted it up fully in Legio heraldry. As I play games with it, I'll add chevrons to tie it into the battlegroup better.  

 

Edited August 7, 2020 by SkimaskMohawk

[Fajita Fan]

That's some awesome work.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Thanks, I really can't wait to see how the weathering and basing works out. Worse case I'll be able to hide any sloppy stuff going on around the edges.

[SkimaskMohawk]

So it's been a little while. My battle group is 95% finished and just needs weathering powders on the feet and a dull coat to finish them off and I've also had my first two games of titanicus.

 

Me and my buddy have decided not to go with the matched play missions as we're big fans of end game objective holding, so for us it's simply 3-5 objectives. We've also added in free battlefield assets to each side to make use of the models that come in the kit and have tried out using the wargear from the White dwarf as a neutral pool to upgrade the titans.

 

So my kind of initial thoughts on some of the mechanics/balance/whatever;

 

I love the titan detail and choices when it comes to all the reactor pushing, movement and shooting. Movement can be trickier with the rounded bases when dealing with rounded blocking terrain as it's harder to imagine that straight line compared to WFB square movement trays.

 

Knights feel like the ultimate glass cannon. In both games the majority of our banners got one hit from plasma blast guns, melta cannons and whatever else. Once there's high enough strength they just completely fold; my charging reaver just body checked a banner of cerastus into nothing. My only thoughts is that they need to really use their movement and full stride and do a far flanking maneuver to not get mowed down.

 

Speaking of knights, that acastus chassis lol. The fire power just a porphyrion puts out seems to beat everything bar a warlord and without suffering from arcs due to its 360 los. My buddy's popped one of my reavers in one volley from a perfectly healthy track. I'm sure he rolled over average, but I was assuming my titan would survive (the acastus was the last thing he had to fire) and it was a bit of a surprise.

[Mandragola]

Yeah that's all basically correct. The Acastus is a pretty abysmal bit of rules writing. They've raised its points to 185 in the FAQ but that hasn't fixed the fundamental issue. It's just so weird that knights go from the pretty tiny amount of firepower of a Cerastus (say with 1/3 the shooting of a dual-flamer warhound) to something more than a Reaver has.

 

In friendly games the solution is not to use them. That's not a great solution, obviously. Personally I find the game most fun when just using titans and I've hardly ever fielded knights. The one time I ran an Acastus it killed a Warhound and a Reaver.

[depthcharge12]

I mean on top of giving it 4 S8 shots they had to give the darn thing blast too. I always forget the missiles, which makes it pretty self contained on top of that. Either make it 2 S8 blasts or 4 S8 no blast.

[Mandragola]

Yeah it's an interesting one. I talked to the designers at the WHW event. They said they didn't want to change the rules on the console because they'd sold those to people. But really the rules are the problem. It just doesn't make sense how much firepower it has, or how tough it is. And anyway changing its points cost and radically limiting how many you can take kind of is changing the rules on the console.

 

Don't forget the missile launcher. It's basically a vulcan mega bolter with nearly twice the range, that doesn't require line of sight. Think about that - it's a much better version of a warhound's arm gun, that sits in a little flip up launcher on a one-man knight suit's back. It makes no sense whatsoever, and that's the kicker for me. It doesn't make sense that this little guy is so much shootier than the big guys.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Now I do want to say that our terrain was a bit more on the pretty side compared to the most functional, and that my list was mostly mid to close range so I didn't have a great unit to threaten the acastus. My first game, both of ours bit the dust as the terrain was a bit more robust.

 

I can respect the view that people need to fork out (in my case) 30 CAD to play the acastus on top of the model's cost, but the 360 arc is a huge problem on such a high powered platform. If they don't want to tweak the terminal, make the thing 250 for the porphyrion at least. The only risk free long range gun is the quake, and that's scale 9 and 10 exclusive.

 

Mandragola, I did find that the game felt a lot more focused when we were both down to 3 titans compared to a whole bunch of things 

[SkimaskMohawk]

I've just started painting my first warlord and I gotta say I'm happy I left off all the armour plates instead of the full assembly I usually do. There's so much detail on the frame and so many plates I want to get a nice yellow transition on, that I would have gone crazy trying to finish this guy. 

 

Very very early work on it, just a basecoat of metal and about halfway through the second of 5 yellows.

 

 

Also, those top gatlings are very heavy, do most people use blue tac or just larger surface magnets to get them to stay on?

[Mandragola]

Yay warlords! I find 5x1 magnets are fine for Gatlings. Unlike the arms, the magnets don’t have to support the gun’s weight - though I’ve never had problems with even the resin arms. Maybe check for the stronger N52 magnets if you’re worried.

[Fajita Fan]

I wish I had used N52s or doubled up my cheap magnets on the heavier quake and Gatling arm cannons. I actually had to cut a bunch of bits off my psi-titan gun because it was so heavy.

[SkimaskMohawk]

My magnet setup for the arms is working great, it's just the weight on the gatlings that really makes them unstable.

 

I had my fourth game of titanicus this weekend. Every game, there seems to be some mechanic that we never got to experience in previous games that pops up; I really like how the rarer mechanics are still relatively common. Some good examples is my warhound getting knocked into my reaver from a quake cannon and the getting immobilized, boxing in a reaver and warbringer with knights and terrain so theyre stuck in really unfavorable positions, my reaver being able to repair enough criticals to last almost the entire game, the same reaver one shotting the acastus with his melta cannon (it felt way better than it should have lol), and tactically overcharging the reactor when close to enemy titans to explode harder.

 

The game ended on turn 5 with literally a single titan left and my buddy pulling out a win. Might have gone differently if his warbringer hadn't died with a volcano-fueled magazine detonation and cleared both the lancer pinning his reaver in place and my reaver, leaving a locomotor seized warhound with no shields left to fight his reaver who still had shields lol.

 

Still unsure why knights can die so easily; my macro cannon killed 3 questoris with 2 hits. Just very odd feeling.

[depthcharge12]

I’m jealous of the amount of games you have gotten in, my group should have a campaign next month which will be fun.

 

I really like the mechanics of the game on paper and in batreps, it seems really fun and balanced (excepting some void missile Fureans shenanigans). While there are some poorly worded rules, I don’t think they detract from the game as a whole. I don’t think I’ve ever felt shoehorned in building a list either.

 

I was really worried about knights originally but I think that stemmed from watching people completely ignore them. Now you can slap em with a quake/melta/volcano and watch them go poof.

 

I really like that all the Titan weapons have a place and feel good. They could’ve done the Reaver melta cannon and the Warhound flamers a dirty, but they all feel awesome.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Lancers are something you don't want to ignore, but from my few games are too easy to one hit with plasma on maximal, volcano or melta. They really need to run up a far flank to get in the lines unmolested.

 

Also, tell me more about these void missile shenanigans lol.

 

 

I also realized I never posted a picture of my current battlegroup; this is what used in a 1500 list on Saturday

 

Edited August 7, 2020 by SkimaskMohawk

[depthcharge12]

Basically:

1. Take Fureans

2. Take 3+ reavers each with a warp missile and hunter auspex

3. Make them not activate in movement phase for free reroll

4. Aim all 3+ missiles at single Titan, don’t matter which

5. Target head or body (for VSG crit)

6. Hit head or body on a 2+ (+2 missile +1 auspex, -2 target loc) rerolling 1’s from standing still

7. Crit enemy Titan to death in 1 round of shooting

8. Drink tears of the unworthy

 

Even if you don’t do the damage track you have a solid chance of getting 2 SP per shot.

 

Save the reroll if you hit on a 2+ (don’t have to declare until you use it) and reroll the damage track for a crit. Crits deal 2 SP anyways, so reavers and warhounds will die from two crits and 2 SP.

 

Warlords are bit trickier and need 4 missiles to be sure, but you can go for body and get VSG burnout and drop the shields. Then :cuss em with volcano cannons or laser blasters

[Mandragola]

That's not quite right. Warp missile crits do not cause structural damage. They inflict critical damage, so you stick a marker in the first hole of the crit track. They do not cause a critical hit, which would do two points of structural damage as well. The distinction is quite clear in the rulebook - though not totally obvious. This also means that a warp missile can only ever do one crit, and never the bonus one you get for going past the end of the structural damage track.

 

This tactic isn't useless. If you do two crits to a titan's body then its shields still drop, and you do only need to do two more crits there to kill it. However, it's enormously unreliable, expensive, and means you Reavers have no other carapace weapons. Overall I don't think warp missile spam is a good strategy at all. Apocalypse launchers and VMBs are both really good and it would be a shame to lose them.

 

A better use for warp missiles is probably to pick off titans that are already badly wounded, of which have overheated and damaged their bodies. The best use for them is killing Acastus knights. I can definitely see a case for taking one in a Fureans list. If you stand still in the movement phase for the reroll, it's the most reliable way to remove a murder turtle. And the rest of the time it's not bad.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Good job on the Titans, SkimaskMohawk.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Interesting. I feel like I have to agree with mandragola, both with the distinction between critical hits and damage, and the practicality of 3+ warp-reavers.

 

I do really like the application as a hard counter to acastus, since those things are so frustrating to fight. Might have to get one just for that.

 

@Bjorn, thanks!

[Sherrypie]

Yeah, the distinction between Critical Hits and Critical Damage means that Warp Missile idea does not work well. You need at least 4 hits and they must all roll to make Critical Damage, so nah. Your list is now also gimped by having like 1200+ points of Reavers without third of their weaponry for the rest of the game. There's also a whole slew of stratagems that can counter this by simply taking one crit less, being Praesagius and taking Emergency Repairs halfway through and so on. Given how forces are shown before stratagems are taken, it's always an option to prepare for that tactic. Standing still with almost all of your crew on the first turn is also pretty sweet for the opposition on any table worth playing on, because they get to take position and evade your actual guns behind cover.

 

Sadly, the distinction also RAW means it doesn't do squat against knights because they don't take Critical Damage, they just die if they take Critical Hits. Womp womp. (I welcome anyone to count that as an instakill against any knights I might field, partly because that's how it should go and partly because please do waste your single-use assets on those gnats.)

 

I find the Warp Missile a cheap and cheerful tool on melee Reavers that Full Stride first turn, Charge next turn and die by the third. Doesn't matter you only shoot once, it's dead before the game goes further most often anyhow :D

[SkimaskMohawk]

Ahhhh of course knights need the crit roll itself to get one hit. Well considering we play pretty raw, it'll need a faq before the missiles get used for acastus control.

[depthcharge12]

Interesting I never knew there was a distinction between the two but I’ll definitely defer to you guys on that. Fureans likely has the best option for it though with Praesagius a close second.

 

Could still do a VSG burnout on a warlord and get something on the damage track but it is gimmicky if it’s only a critical track and not a critical hit.

 

At 1750 I believe you can fit a Corsair and a Lupercal in there. Lupercal can help with shields and capitalize on VSGB. Take Gatling and a volcano cannon.

 

It does drop your weapons down but it can severely hamper your opponents strategy if you are taking out a key unit early in the game.

[Sherrypie]

I'm just not seeing the early takeouts being a real thing, too much chance involved when under like 2500 points and at that level those missing carapace weapons will start hurting badly soon after. Just failing one hit means the entire plan stops there and by turn two the target is already contributing meaningfully and the benefit of said alpha strike is lost for the most part.

 

If going for such alpha, I'd rather take a missile or three along a psi-titan that can pretty reliably punch a Crit or two on anything you want from the get go. Alpha striking in this context is actually beneficial to focus on, because you're pretty much guaranteed to be down an activation in the beginning due to the psi-titan's cost. Maybe put some agressive melee / melta weapons on the otherwise cheap Reavers so you can push them onwards to die in the first line while giving the psi-titan free range to keep on killing things with the Sinistramanus + missiles for aimed shots while the Reavers keep the enemy occupied.

[Mandragola]

Combining warp missiles with the Sinistramanus is a great option. Together, they are likely to drop a target's shields. Only thing is, the Sinister titan doesn't especially need the help against most targets. I guess it might occasionally do three crits to something and the warp missile could finish things... but then so could most other guns.

[depthcharge12]

I hate to hijack this thread one last time (we should move this to Principa) but my original plan was to do Corsair with chainfist/melta/missile and LB/VMB on the warhounds. You don’t need the reroll per se, so use the Corsair movement buff to get better placements.

 

I would first fire the missiles (lose pivot but Corsair negates this to a small degree) and go for VSG burnout and hammer the Titan early on. A lost or damaged warlord in a 1750 point conflict is pretty rough and a big chunk of points.

 

Corsair with aggressive reavers might be a good combo to make the most of the void missiles.