Brushing on Citadel Air?

[FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants]

Hi guys and gals of the B+C. I went to Tactics, a gaming store here in Perth, and picked up a few paints. I got the Game Colour equivalent of Warpstone Glow and Moot Green, called Sick Green and Scorpio Green, to do some highlights on some DA test pieces I want do. I also bought Nocturne Green Air and Caliban Green Air I’m going to do some SM helmets as a test for my colour scheme. I’m going to some Caliban and some Nocturne. Without having seen them on th mini yet I’m already leaning towards Nocturne Green as just looking at the paint bottles it looks darker, which is the aesthetic I’m aiming for, but it may be too dark over Chaos Black, that’s why I bought the Caliban. I’ll obviously be highliting with the two Vellejo paints. Anyway, my long wind d question is whether I can brush paint on a base coat of Citadel Air (I do plan on setting myself up with an airbrush and compressor, but don’t have them yet)? I figure it’s just like painting on thinned down paint right? I’m only going to be doing a few helmets, and while it may take several coats to get an opaque coverage, don’t mind at this stage because of the small quantity of pieces. Also if I thin Abbadon Black or any other black for that matter with black ink instead of water or Lahmian Medium it should be more opaque and be good as a recess shade/black lining effect, correct?

[Midlight]

Yes, the air paints are just slightly thinner paint and will brush on fine.

No idea what will happen mixing ink into paint, your logic seems sound though.

[FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants]

Thanks for your speedy reply. I figured that the air paint would brush on just fine, just thought I’d check first. I’ll give the ink a go and see how it pans out.

[Grotsmasha]

I accidentally bought a couple of air paints instead of the regular type, and yep, they're fine to brush on :tu:

[Firedrake Cordova]

Not tried Citadel Air, but Vallejo Game/Model Air can be painted on with a brush just fine - I don't see why the Citadel line should be any different. :)

 

With regard to thinning paint with ink, it should improve flow and retain colour density quite well.  As an aside, if you want to do black lining, have a look at flow improvers (e.g. Winsor & Newton Flow Improver, Liquitex Flo-Aid, etc) to add to the ink.

[FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants]

Thanks for the replies guys. How much flow improver would I add to the ink? Also what order would I add the the flow improver and ink to the paint. I’ve heard good things about flow improver, but never bought any up until now. I’ve not actually done any painting for a few years, and when I used to paint my first attempts were undiluted paint from the pot and then later water to thin my paints but was told Lahmian Medium was better than water. Correct me if I’m wrong but flow improver would probably be better than acrylic thinner for things like edge highlighting too as it not only thins the paint, but helps it flow off of the brush better too, as the name seems to suggest. Thanks again guys. Also I figure that water would be acceptable for doing things Ike blocking in colours, with the exception of metallics which Lahmian would be better for, and save the more expensive additives for highlight, black lining, freehand etc? Edited April 15, 2020 by Captain Smashy Pants

[BadgersinHills]

Water is perfectly fine for all the steps you listed, I think. I know some high level painters who only thin with water but their names escape me. Still, the mediums are handy to have. 

 

Order in which you add mediums shouldn't matter. Thinning with inks is definitely possible and would make the colour pretty opaque. I think with a colour like Abaddon Black the opacity shouldn't be affected greatly if you thin it with water, though. 

 

For black lining, I'd recommend Nuln Oil or a black wash or just diluted ink itself as thinned Black Paint could be a little too stark. If that's the look you like then go for it though! :) 

[Firedrake Cordova]

How much flow improver would I add to the ink? Also what order would I add the the flow improver and ink to the paint.

The flow improvers are concentrates, so it's a case of mixing up a 10% solution (9:1 water:flow improver), and then adding that to the paint.  How much will vary by paint, so it's a bit of trial and error, I'm afraid.

 

 

Correct me if I’m wrong but flow improver would probably be better than acrylic thinner for things like edge highlighting too as it not only thins the paint, but helps it flow off of the brush better too, as the name seems to suggest. 

That's right

 

Also I figure that water would be acceptable for doing things Ike blocking in colours, with the exception of metallics which Lahmian would be better for, and save the more expensive additives for highlight, black lining, freehand etc?

If you're only thinning a little, I'll use water or flow improver mixture, as it just doesn't make a difference what you use at that ratio.  If you're thinning paint by a lot, it's best to use an acrylic medium, as this helps retain the properties of the paint and also prevent any adhesion issues. 

 

For example, when I think the Vallejo Game Colour Extra Opaque or Model Colour ranges, I'm generally thinning 2-3:1 thinner:paint, so I use Vallejo's thinning medium (available in 60ml bottle at the cost of 2x 17ml bottles of paint, so reasonably cheap*).  If I'm painting the rim of a base with paint thinned to that extent with water, it'll retreat from the top of the rim as it dries, but if I replace the water with thinning medium, it doesn't (it stays where it's put).

 

* if you want a bulk supply of it, they also do a 500ml bottle for the cost of 4 pots of paint ...

Edited April 15, 2020 by Firedrake Cordova

[FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants]

One last question for the evening. A friend of mine gave me a box full of stuff, half used sprues, some paints and this, when he got out of the hobby. It's still sealed. Its called Matte Medium, I know it's not flow improver or thinner. I was under the impression Lahmian Medium was Matte Medium, but that's clear, this stuff is a milky white colour and even says it's somewhat opaque on the back of the bottle. If I'm not mistaken adding this will whiten the paint, which I'm not really keen on. What, if anything is this stuff useful for in our hobby?

[FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants]

From what I can tell this is more for canvas painters, correct me if I’m wrong and it does have a use in our hobby. He probably picked it up by mistake. Lol.

[BadgersinHills]

Vallejo Matte Medium is the same white and Lahmian Medium has a whitish colour too, as does Contrast Medium. I don't think it should lighten your paints as I've used contrast medium without that happening. Try it out and see if you like the results, though. :) 

[FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants]

Could be a cheaper (actually free with this first bottle as it was given to me) alternative to Lahmian Medium. Still want to get some flow improver though. They’re just two tools in the same box. That’s why I’ll have no qualms using paints from different brands. Some people will only use Citadel, because reasons, other won’t use it at all. Some brands make certain colours that there appear to be no alternatives for like XV88, however if I have the option to get a “layer” paint I’ll always opt for a dropper bottle. Citadel Air is pretty runny, that why I had no qualms buying it today, and Tactics doesn’t really, stock much Vallejo Air. But stock Game Color and Model Color quite extensively. I’ve heard good things about Army Painter washes and most of their brand in general, but from personal experience don’t like their spray paints and find them difficult., but actually like Chaos Black from GW, and am also keen to try out Wraithbone or whatever it’s called. Corax White while better than its predecessor I don’t rate highly at all. I’ll never dip my minis in that rebranded shoe polish that Army Painter sell though. Something I’m keen on trying is Vellojo Liquid Gold, but am a little apprehensive about due to needing to thin it with isopropyl alcohol. I’ve just got a lot of time on my hands and am keen to get painting again after my previous hiatus. Wish me luck fellas.

[Firedrake Cordova]

Its called Matte Medium, I know it's not flow improver or thinner. I was under the impression Lahmian Medium was Matte Medium, but that's clear, this stuff is a milky white colour and even says it's somewhat opaque on the back of the bottle. If I'm not mistaken adding this will whiten the paint, which I'm not really keen on. What, if anything is this stuff useful for in our hobby?

It's basically acrylic binder which dries matte.  I wouldn't recommend using it alone to thin paint, as it's not really thin - think "thinnish" PVA glue, or around the consistency of a GW Base paint, so it'll need thinning (it's still thinner than the Winsor & Newton Professional Matte Medium, though).  It won't cause a colour shift in any paint you add it to.

 

In terms of what you could use it for, I've used it to make washes before (matte medium + flow improver + ink).  

Edited April 15, 2020 by Firedrake Cordova

[FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants]

Cool

[Fajita Fan]

One last question for the evening. A friend of mine gave me a box full of stuff, half used sprues, some paints and this, when he got out of the hobby. It's still sealed. Its called Matte Medium, I know it's not flow improver or thinner. I was under the impression Lahmian Medium was Matte Medium, but that's clear, this stuff is a milky white colour and even says it's somewhat opaque on the back of the bottle. If I'm not mistaken adding this will whiten the paint, which I'm not really keen on. What, if anything is this stuff useful for in our hobby?

GW's pot of medium is basically similar to this but even more thinned down. If you empty a couple of Lahmian Mediums into a dropper bottle like I do it will turn very milky white on you. I've used that Liquitex medium on terrain and thinning my own greasy wash for pipes and it looked just fine. That bottle is like $18US at my local art store and it's lasted me for a couple of years now.

[Oshikai]

I found Contrast Medium to whiten my Colors more than Lamian, especially in dark browns and similar Colors it was noticable, wasn`t to fond of that, and it has more Gloss to it, even after shaking. Works great with Contrast, but I prefer using Lamian or other Mediums to thin down Colors I use for Layering.