Chaplain Litanies: A discussion on ideal situations

[Qui-Gon]

So, I've been considering the chaplain litanies. Since august I've been using a chaplain as an HQ in preparation of being able to use litanies, and now that I can, I'm needing to actually start planning around using something other than Litany of Hate. I am certain that there are those in the community who view chaplains as sub-par and not as useful as librarians. I agree with you, but I have held from the outset of the Deathwatch Codex that there are very few outright BAD choices in the army, just sub-optimal ones.

 

With that in mind, I'd like to get a discussion going on the utility of certain Litanies.

 

For myself, I'm considering the Recitation of Focus to be arguably the best one in the widest range of circumstances for us. To enable a T1 stalker team to hit on 2s when wanting to use Target Sighted, or to enable an Intergressor squad to truly unload and hit with the mass of bolt fire come turn 2 at 18".

 

Catechism of Fire is too situation with the requirement of being closest target. I wish we could take Master of Sanctity, at which point it becomes a tempting choice, but when you're only likely to get one litany per army as most folks won't run double chappies, its not as useful in my view.

 

Exortation of Rage and Canticle of Hate are both melee focused ones, and I am not certain I'd often use either. Probably matchup dependent.

 

Mantra of Strength is so laughable I never plan to use it.

 

Litany of Faith is also a matchup dependent one, but if you happen to draw against a psyker heavy army, it could save you big.

 

Anyone else have input they want to provide?

[bluntpencil]

You have to think of the synergies.

 

A melee unit, teleported in, with a Smash Captain landing next to them who has the Beacon Angelis, can then use the Beacon to beam across a Chaplain who has Canticle of Hate active. Your deep strike charges just got a lot easier.

 

Mantra of Strength on a Chaplain Dread? They'll be hitting on S16, wounding basically anything on a 2,  for 4 or 5 damage (with +1D Warlord Trait), with 5 attacks (6 on charge or charged). 

Edited April 17, 2020 by bluntpencil

[zero88]

You have to think of the synergies.

 

A melee unit, teleported in, with a Smash Captain landing next to them who has the Beacon Angelis, can then use the Beacon to beam across a Chaplain who has Canticle of Hate active. Your deep strike charges just got a lot easier.

 

Did they ever FAQ if you can deep strike and use the beacon on the same turn? I know it's been debated.

 

Recitation of Focus is universally good, the only real limitation is shouting the prayer at the start of the Battle Round. Cool idea, now you can field two Corvus', put the litany on one and Big Guns Never Tire on the other to get PotMS on both. Using it on any footslogging squad is still good, but with DW having easy access to Chapter Master rerolls I think throwing it on something that is splitting off from the main force is more beneficial.

 

Catechism of Fire is tougher to use, but being able to stack it with a doctrine is very powerful, +2 to wound is phenomenal and rarely seen in the game.

[Mobius0288]

I didnt think of mantra of strength with a chaplain, that's gonna be one heck of a beat stick. And absolutely give it Castellan of the Vault. wow.

 

I was looking at atleast 1 chaplain, either a regular one with jump pack or a chaplain dread in my double battalion lists. One of them had 2, which would baby sit some intercessors in the back.

 

I wanted canticle of hate to synergize with my bikers but it'll probably end up being a turn 2 thing (realistically) more than a turn 1 rush. Recitation of Focus will probably be our default for a lot of things. I'm especially thinking about tagging my Blackstar with it before sending it forward. Pop Big Guns Never Tire and end movement near my watchmaster and librarian from my drop pod. It gets me as close to the front line as possible to target what I need, hits on 2, ignore heavy, reroll with the watchmaster and cast might of heroes of +1 toughness. It still may go down but it would be so fun to see our blackstar just shred with assault cannons and hurricane bolters, throw a couple storm strike missiles into something big. Oh and because of doctrine, the storm strike and assault cannons get the extra -1 AP on turn 1. If any of those positional or power things fail, you still have it to harass with Big Guns anyway.

 

Along with Mantra of Strength, we can now take some smash chaplains for cheaper. Give'em Castellan if you have the extra warlord trait and a power fist. Or bane of monstrosities, possible bane bolts for his storm bolter.

 

Catechism of Fire doesn't seem as situation for me... if my chaplain dread stays back to use the lascannon, I can cast the prayer and beacon a large unit up to my watchmaster in drop pod. They would like target whatever unit is closest to them anyway. I could even pop the +1 to wound doctrine if I need the damage. This would be especially good against Knights. And of course you could try to pair with stalker intercessors and the target sighted strat for possible mortal wounds.

 

Exhortation of Rage seems to have pretty sweet combos but no matter how I do it, its a turn 2 and on thing... Drop pod and beacon a hybrid kill team turn 1. Turn 2 get the exploding 6's off, move, shoot and charge. Suffer not the Alien to live if fighting a xenos army and now you can have double exploding 6's. +1 to wound doctrine or assassination doctrine as required. Good for both hammer types and regular power weapons. The strats not entirely necessary if you enjoy some lightning claws.... if your patient, maybe you can pull of a turn 2 beacon move with a sizable vanguard unit and also get hammer of wrath off? (on a 5+, cause a mortal wound for each model in a Jump Pack unit). Or a 6-man inceptor unit?

[Mobius0288]

 

Did they ever FAQ if you can deep strike and use the beacon on the same turn? I know it's been debated.

 

No FAQ needed, the controlling player chooses the order of events because they both happen in the same instance (end of movement phase). So yes, we can deep strike and beacon.

[Irbis]

 

but with DW having easy access to Chapter Master rerolls

 

Except they don't. They have the old, worse aura, not the Space Marine one. Funnily enough, after DW Chaplain tells the boys how to finally hit the enemies Watch Master screams at them to miss again

[Mr4Minutes]

If only we could use the strat for an extra litany and the reroll failed chants.

 

I also think the beacon is gonna be a go to with our chaplains. It’s the one thing that really makes ours unique.

 

I can easily see a situation where you cast the +1 to wound on an intergressor squad or interblaster squad and then beacon it into position where the closest model/unit is what you’re after.

 

The mantra of strength (self +1s and A) is probably the worst for our chaplains due to our lack of good chaplain relic.

 

I think the best load out will be Focus for the +1 to hit and the base litany of reroll hits in CC. It’s the most all rounder.

[Debauchery101]

I keep taking chaplains but they are often very under-utilized. I think I'm going to go back to cheap captain with master crafted bolter or work in room for a chaplain dread. I like the passive str buff aura plus hes a character with invulnerable save and FNP. Hes pretty good with whatever weapons loadout you choose. Edited April 19, 2020 by Debauchery101

[Mobius0288]

Hey real quick, did anyone see anymore info on the page where it defines "priest" about whether or not chaplain dreads would gain the key word as well? I think that specific paragraph or page was cut off/not included. It defines it but doesn't say "add keyword priest to xxxxx models." And previously our Errata (Space Marines: Other Publications) said we would not get the priest key word on Deathwatch's Chaplain Dreadnaught.

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/warhammer_40000_space_marines_errata_en-1.pdf

 

Can someone check me?

[Mobius0288]

If only we could use the strat for an extra litany and the reroll failed chants.

I REALLY wanted that chief apothecary strat.

[Qui-Gon]

Until the document has been updated, we have to work with the wording as it is currently written. Meaning, Chaplain dreads do not get Priest, and do not change their rules as they specifically call out Deathwatch don't get the updated wording.

 

Specifically, the new rules state:
"Replace the Litanies of Hate ability on the datasheets of all CHAPLAIN units in Codex Deathwatch with the following:"
 

Its very clear it doesn't update Chaplain dreadnoughts.

 

Considering Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Dark Angels have not been updated, they too are waiting for their rules to update. I assume its because they wanted to wait and do it all at once.

Edited April 20, 2020 by Qui-Gon

[Chris521]

nvm

Edited April 25, 2020 by Chris521

[Chris521]

So I gonna try this again.  My last post of theory crafting was shut down real quick since I remembered just after posting that you can’t beacon a dreadnought.

 

I would like to try a double Chaplain list Deathwatch style.  Whether it is realistic to pull off is up in the air and certainly can’t be tested by me in the current climate. This strategy assumes that the Chaplain Dread gets FAQ’d to get litanies.

 

What I have in mind consists of the following units:

• Chaplain Dread -Mantra of Strength
• Terminator Chaplain- Canticle of hate and an additional warlord trait of Watch Eternal
• Librarian -Jump pack and Beacon Angelis
• 2 Balanced Kill Teams- Storm bolters/Storm shields, Sarge Blackshield, Vanguard, 2 terminators, bike, 5-6 cheap power weapons in each team

 

The Terminator Chaplain starts with all the rest of the army while the other four units are deep striking.  Once he gets his litany (charge bubble) off, the other squads will deep strike in and he will get beaconed over to them.

 

Positioning is important here since at the very least, all of the storm shield vets need to be within 6 inches of the chaplain for the 6+ fnp, they are my ablative wounds.

Other buffs include:

• Charge bubble from chaplain
• Might of heroes on Chappy dread from Librarian
• Wisdom of the Ancients on Chappy, to give every a Captain’s buff for the phase, this one will likely be used a few times.
• I'm pretty sure the Chaplain Dread still gives +1 strength to units fighting the same unit.

 

So bunch of stuff happens and hopefully the units are able to find their way into combat.  Next turn, the Chaplain Dread will use Mantra of Strength, while the Termi Chaplain may choose to use the default litany instead (rerolls in fights).  Surviving Veterans will try to do their fallback/shoot/charge shenanigans.

 

Overall it might be too hard to pull off against someone that knows what they're doing, however, between the full mixed kill teams, deep striking, and beacon, it at least goes all in on using the tricks the Codex gives them.

 

[Mobius0288]

So I gonna try this again.  My last post of theory crafting was shut down real quick since I remembered just after posting that you can’t beacon a dreadnought.

 

I would like to try a double Chaplain list Deathwatch style.  Whether it is realistic to pull off is up in the air and certainly can’t be tested by me in the current climate. This strategy assumes that the Chaplain Dread gets FAQ’d to get litanies.

 

What I have in mind consists of the following units:

• Chaplain Dread -Mantra of Strength
• Terminator Chaplain- Canticle of hate and an additional warlord trait of Watch Eternal
• Librarian -Jump pack and Beacon Angelis
• 2 Balanced Kill Teams- Storm bolters/Storm shields, Sarge Blackshield, Vanguard, 2 terminators, bike, 5-6 cheap power weapons in each team

 

The Terminator Chaplain starts with all the rest of the army while the other four units are deep striking.  Once he gets his litany (charge bubble) off, the other squads will deep strike in and he will get beaconed over to them.

 

Positioning is important here since at the very least, all of the storm shield vets need to be within 6 inches of the chaplain for the 6+ fnp, they are my ablative wounds.

Other buffs include:

• Charge bubble from chaplain
• Might of heroes on Chappy dread from Librarian
• Wisdom of the Ancients on Chappy, to give every a Captain’s buff for the phase, this one will likely be used a few times.
• I'm pretty sure the Chaplain Dread still gives +1 strength to units fighting the same unit.

 

So bunch of stuff happens and hopefully the units are able to find their way into combat.  Next turn, the Chaplain Dread will use Mantra of Strength, while the Termi Chaplain may choose to use the default litany instead (rerolls in fights).  Surviving Veterans will try to do their fallback/shoot/charge shenanigans.

 

Overall it might be too hard to pull off against someone that knows what they're doing, however, between the full mixed kill teams, deep striking, and beacon, it at least goes all in on using the tricks the Codex gives them.

I agree that it might be too hard to pull off. You won't be able to get your chaplain dread in range of everyone else unless you put it in a dreadnaught drop pod. And if you did that, (using your assumption that we would get chaplain dread FAQ'd), your chaplain dread wouldn't be able to get litanies off until the following turn. In this scenario, I think you're better off playing things as they are and use the chaplain dreads current ability instead.

 

And bringing up the +2 to charge thing... I've been going through in my mind as well if it would be worth it to beacon a chaplain over. I favor not beaconing a chaplain at the moment because I find a unit of 10 models to be more valuable and focusing on shooting power.

 

Now if you're ok with drop pods, I could see a turn 1 drop with an odd numbered kill team, chaplain and another HQ. Beacon something with one character so you have 2 units and two characters. Hopefully you survive until turn 2 and you can cast the prayer you're looking at as well as deep strike in an additional unit. But by that point, your units may already be in combat depending on what happened on your opponents turn... and that third unit would have to remain outside of 9" from the enemy when coming in.

 

I personally think you have a better shot at disembarking a vanguard veteran unit out of a blackstar on turn 2. Bigger bubble to move/position them for a charge. Or maybe rhinos could be utilized? hm...

[Chris521]

No need for a Dreadnought drop pod, he uses the stratagem.

[Mobius0288]

No need for a Dreadnought drop pod, he uses the stratagem.

Thats a fair point but he can only come in on turn 2 at the point, and wouldn't be able to cast Mantra of Strength until turn 3. I was trying to find a way to get all these guys on the board as soon as possible and get the fastest use of the powers/prayers. I still feel like Icon of Hate will be better for him, and probably just give him Castellan of the Vault for one of his DCCW's. But that's me.

[Chris521]

Well they weren't coming down till turn 2 anyways and mantra of strength is just an extra buff on top of the other ones at that point.  He's already very likely to kill anything he manages to get into combat with that turn. If he survives into later turns, he less likely to have the Librarian and other the Chaplain helping, so that's when Mantra of Strength is going to be more effective.

 

Unless I'm missing anything, the Dread still has Icon of Hate anyways.

[Mobius0288]

Yes, it will retain icon of hate. I prefer to assume chaplain dreads aren't getting litanies since it involves the removal of a previous errata. That's why I'm saying it the way I said it. Like you said, Mantra of Strength would be a bonus.

 

The tricky part is those who use it as a back line anti-tank and hope to use things like recitation of focus. Do we continue to use him as an untargetable lascannon platform or bring an actual chaplain to beef up the stalker intercessor/stalker-missile teams?

[Daynga-Zone]

As far as backline Chaplains go, I was planning on running one to use the focus litany on a unit of blastercessors so they can safely overcharge then hopefully beacon them over to my deep strike team turn two already focused so they can get two rounds of safe overcharge. Not sure if 10 wounds is enough to keep that deadly of a unit alive. Depending on the matchup might just start them out not in LoS or somewhere only specific enemies can hit them.

 

After turn two the chaplain can either use focus on another unit or use it on himself and be a good potential use of the tempest shell strat (I run my HQs as all primaris or terminator for personal fluff reasons so the absolved boot pistol is perfect for this).

 

As far as Chaplain dreads go, they’ll be a must take competitively if they get full litanies. I get the feeling with the new forgeworld rules coming out that they’ll be sent to legends. With their model no longer being legitimately produced, from what I can tell, that’s the right thing IMO.

*absolver bolt pistol. Wow autocorrect did a number on that one.

[Qui-Gon]

So, upon greater reflection, I am starting to feel that certain litanies are a trap and here is why:
 

Litanies must be selected before you find out if you're going first or second. Meaning that you are as likely to go second as you are to go first. And if you go second, you're 

 

Those litanies must all be triggered top of the battle round, so your opponent gets to know if certain litanies are active AND what units they affect when they start shooting.

If you apply Recitation, Catechism, Mantra, or Exortation, he will know precisely what units has what buff and can decide how he wants to address it. He can make all the effort to erase whichever unit that has the buff that he does not want to deal with, and can wash his hands clean of the affair. Meanwhile, we've had to tip our hand, and are floating on a hope and a prayer that whichever unit was buffed will survive so we can use it.

 

As much as I desperately want to be able to use a chaplain, having a 50/50 chance essentially of his benefits being useless, if not actively detrimental since you tip your hand ahead of time, I am unlikely to ever use those 4 litanies.

 

Now, if somehow we get chaplain dreadnoughts and litanies and they don't get erased with legends and are still going to be valid for mainline play, that might change things, but for now? Nah. The problem I have is that the chaplain occupies a 72-77 pt HQ slot for a battalion. Very little you can do in that range without dirt cheap techmarines.

[Daynga-Zone]

I agree that litanies aren’t ideal. Seems weird that similarly costed HQs can apply their reroll auroras with no chance of failure and to multiple units. Using litanies can tip your hand, but so does the location of the Chaplain anyways. The biggest problem for me is that the Chaplain can’t DS and use litanies in the same turn. Forcing me to use the beacon just to get a +1 squad in place who will only get that buff for one turn with a chance of failure.

 

On the other hand, there’s just not a lot of good HQs for DW. We have the worst psykers amongst marines, no tech marines, watch master is priced well, but has the old reroll wording.

 

I would love a change to mission tactics being +1 to wound (replacing those strats with something new and different for DW) and a lieutenant style HQ. Call him an alpha or something since we don’t have lieutenants.

[Mr4Minutes]

I think the chaplains with the new litanies add utility, but I don’t think they’re a foundation for a new strategy. Having to cast at the beginning of the round coupled with a 1/3 fail rate leaves too much room for failure.

 

However I’m not as worried about telegraphing. If my opponent has the ability to remove the buffed unit before I can use it then it was more likely then not that they were going remove it whether it was buffed or not.

 

They will have the ability to adjust defensively tho. Possibly moving the target or adjusting their screen. But this adjustment could also be disrupting their plan at the same time.

 

There are so many variables it’s really hard to say how exactly one buff could effect the outcome of any nonspecific example I suppose.

 

I do think DW have a lot of tools to get the most utility they bring. The beacon angelis is the obvious, allowing us to move the chaplain if he’s buffed with an aura or a unit he’s buffed. Another possibility is a teleport homer. It’s very situational, but you can use it to bring a buffed vet squad with a termie within 9” of an enemy unit. Which could be right in that sweet spot for frag cannons. Or even a termie chaplain.

 

I know an aware opponent can disable it easily. But in many games I’ve played the teleport homer is often overlooked because it’s so uncommon.

 

I think building in as many options to move the buffed unit is the best way to get the most mileage out of the new chaplains.

[Qui-Gon]

@ Mr4minutes: The teleport homer strategy doesn't work offensively, only defensively. It also doesn't work on Terminator Armor characters. I've never put stock in the teleport homer strategy because in my mind it is deeply flawed.

[Drizzt79]

@Qui-gon: I believe Mr4minutes meant the teleportarum stratagem

[Mr4Minutes]

No I mean the DeathWatch teleport homer. I usually bring a full vet squad with one biker and a couple termies. The homer is free so I always take it.

 

They do work defensively to bring back an over extended squad. But they also work offensively. It’s all situational, but I’ve used a vet squad to screen out my backfield from DS and then used the homer to redeploy them to the front line. Yes they disappear if your opponent gets within 9”, but they also allow you to get within 9” if they don’t.

 

And you can use them on terminator HQs. The requirement is that a unit needs to contain at least one model that is a DEATHWATCH (bold) terminator (not bolded). Terminator HQs are a unit with at least one model that has both the DEATHWATCH and terminator key words.