Let's talk on what we Do have and Can do

[Debauchery101]

So I've been playing Deathwatch on and off competitively since 7th. It's very Rare for me to go mono faction with DW. I know a lot of players want to have everything like other marine armies and seem to be very upset that were not. I kind of like it the way it is. Sure a few minor additions like a Techmarine, Apothecary and Impulsor would be nice. We cant have our cake and eat it too. If we get more and more other entries to make what we have even better then expect limits or points increases.

 

But I digress...I want look at combos that can be made with allies.

 

I've been experimenting space wolves with some DW. An armored rush with ragnar, a wolf priest and Intercessors in impulsors. I have a couple of characters on thunder wolves and some incursors/infiltrators supported by a phobos Rune priest.

 

The DW support is 2 smaller backfield units and a maxed Primaris Kill team. 1 aggressor and 9 auto bolter Intercessors.

 

Its 3 battaltions all in all.

 

4 games in vs various Chaos soup lists I've done well. I lost out in a game against my brother who used a list I made which was death guard, servants of the abyss and traitor guard. 5 indirect fire units, 5 psykers with around 100 cheap bodies to screen...my brother is kinda new and I coached a lot. So I was basically trying to have him counter everything I did and was data collecting trying to smash through to what was killing quite easily every round.

 

Like ragnar got one round of slaughtering almost an entire 20 man pox Walker unit before catching wrong end of a bunch of smites and typhus scythe.

 

I definitely ran into the predicament of trying to kill my way through to knock down his Damage output or try to capture objectives, weather artillery and facing an encroaching horde.

 

I have enough stuff in the list to screen and line up hvy hitters to kill knights with ease but smites vs my marines up push up or hop out of transports really took a lot of damage output from me.

 

I try adding in some whirlwinds as well as some 2xhb land speeders.

 

Anyone else work out any marines with DW support?

[Mobius0288]

I feel like my soup lists before these new strats came out were fine, and now they are better... and more flexible to reacting to things. For example, I think using a chaplain on a blackstar and then scooting it up and popping big guns never tire will do decent damage compared to no modifiers. But what if it gets shot down and I don't get turn 1? Cool, now I have a choice beaconing a different unit up to my drop pod full of friends if I needed their firepower. And know if I'm going first or second before casting prayers will also help how to react, plus my opponents deployment set up, etc.

 

I've noticed a small shift in what units I want to take as well. I quite enjoy taking a malleus inquisitor for the double powers and denies, AND stacking a libby in there. That's at least 3 powers of mortal wounds and the ability to cast psychic fortress (better than nothing honestly), 4 denies. All that to say that their presence frees up a spot for me to take a chaplain in the back field to do various things. I'm even contemplating a smash chaplain as more of a go to, though a jump captain with a relic blade is still quite good. The one thing I still have to figure out is chaplain dreads. I was honestly expecting them to be able to recite litanies but it may not happen, since it hasn't happened for the other non-codex space marine dudes.

 

Going back toward soups... I don't see a lot of must haves in the adeptus astartes arena for allies. Scions, Admech, Knight and even Grey Knight allies are still strong in their own right (eager to see if sisters of silence get something!). They also tend to bring what Deathwatch is usually lacking for a little bit cheaper than a second adeptus astartes ally. Of course you can go dig out exceptions... for example, a ravenguard eliminator spearhead with las-fusils and his redeployment shennanigans with aggressors. Or a spearhead of whirlwinds and rapier batteries. The point is, if your main-ing Deathwatch, I don't feel tied to other astartes chapters just so I can have additional AP during my turns. Our AP is already great if using the right SIA profile in the right situation.

 

More toward your point about space marine allies... I imagine a salamander spearhead or vanguard of dreadnaughts would be pretty nice for an anti-tank role. Iron hand's stuff are pretty flexible - tough intercessors, mortis dread character or super leviathan surrounded by a few company vets; create a moving castle up the center and flank with deathwatch. Imperial fists can bring the dakka but you could argue that Deathwatch have adequate firepower in the bolter realm. Madmonkey is gonna test out dark angels but I foresee a lot of plasma! You've got space wolves covered but I imagine they and blood angels have the better melee options to deal with a variety of options. The best Deathwatch can do is try to use vanguard vets or add power weapons to our current kill teams. Their good options, but space wolves and blood angels will do it better. What about Air Wing detachment options? Can some storm talons and/or xiphons help get the fire power you need to take out indirect fire units early on?

 

Pick it a part but that's just initial thoughts so far.

[Paulinus]

I’m looking at some soup combos to test out.

 

1. Ultramarines (my main army)

 

Something I like is is a small artillery battery using a Scorpius, a TF and a rapier. Now this is an Ultramarine detachment normally but I think it can help a bit to take up the slack for the lack of indirect fire. Normally with a master of sanctity or Cassius (save on CPs)

 

So Cassius, a TF, a Scorpius and a rapier quad gun (add an eliminator squad to round off the det). Take the seal of oath on the techmarine gunner and go to town on something you really want dead and also take out hidden units.

 

2. Flesh Tearers.

 

Yes I know not as good as BA but it’s what I play. Either make a good first wave assault in your face with Deathwatch acting as a follow on. BA or FT have awesome smash captains. Plus losing a superdoctrine for BA isn’t that painful.

 

3. RAven Guard has some good options with eliminators. And Phobos units.

 

Speaking of Phobos units: 2x Infiltrators squads can really give you board control And can really give your opponent a rainy day. A real damper for DW armies that face them.

 

4. inquisitors and assassins. Just the flexibility of a pocket assassin is worth it since we don’t lose that much. I use Hector Rex as my go to Inquisitor (hoping Draxus is worth it too)

 

Just a few things.

[Debauchery101]

I am going to remove the iron priest on Thunderwolf and add in Rex or Cotaez. Both have their benefits. Vs lists I know are going to make use of stratagem combos I like forcing that extra CP cost. Especially when I have reserves still and he can use auspex scan or something similar

[Debauchery101]

I am going to try a Raptors combo. I have been really enjoying them. The Tri-fold path is so powerful.

Lias issodon- free pick up and deep strike. Even just doing it to himself...hes basically Dutch from predator. But toss Swift and Deadly on him

 

Phobos Captain with Tri-fold path-lord of deceit and Target Priority

 

Phobos Librarian-Chief Librarian- shadowstep and temporal corridor and Master of Ambush

 

That is a ridiculous amount of deployment

and movement shenanigans.

 

Its substantial CP purchase pre game. Plus with DW I'll toss some Intercessors with auto bolters in reserve as well as some aggressors or centurions. But there is a lot of redundancy. Redeploying all your elims and phobos cpt has allowed me to game the hell out of armies like tau and iron hands

 

I am going to scheme on an optimized list later tonight.

Edited April 21, 2020 by Debauchery101

[Debauchery101]

Here's a rough draft

 

1st Raptor Battalion

Lias Issodon-swift and deadly

Phobos Librarian- chief Librarian, neural shroud, shadow step, temporal corridor

 

3x5 incursors

 

2nd Raptors Battalion

Phobos Cpt-warlord, oppressors end, trifold path, master of the vanguard, lord of deceit

 

Primaris Lt-ex Tenebris

 

1x5 Intercessors-hammer/bolt rifles

1x5 Scouts-bolters

1x5 Scouts-sgt/storm bolter/fist, blades and pistols

 

2x3 Eliminators-Las Fusils

 

Deathwatch Battalion

Watch Master-beacon angelus

Primaris Chaplain

 

Hektor Rex-psychic mastery

 

Primaris Killteam- 1 Aggressor, 1 sgt-fist/auto bolter, 8 autobolter Intercessors

 

Primaris Killteam- 1 aggressor, 5 stalker bolters

 

Veteran Killteam- 1 biker/homer/chainsword, BlkShield/hammer/shield, VetSgt/hammer/shield, Terminator/power sword/storm bolter, 6 Veterans/storm bolter/shield

 

After all the character upgrades its 10 CP left over. The relic on LT and Rex psychic mastery isn't 100% needed. I'll be using 2-3 on teleportarium and Infiltrating

[TPS]

I've been thinking in a similar direction of mixing the Watch with Raven Guard, owing to the insane deployment/deep strike shenanigans.

Would love to see the delicious angelic bacon on a more mobile platform than the Watch Master. Chaplain with jetpack?

 

BTW: is there an option for Incursors with closed helmets? That open-topped design is really turning me off ...

[Debauchery101]

I've been thinking in a similar direction of mixing the Watch with Raven Guard, owing to the insane deployment/deep strike shenanigans.

Would love to see the delicious angelic bacon on a more mobile platform than the Watch Master. Chaplain with jetpack?

 

BTW: is there an option for Incursors with closed helmets? That open-topped design is really turning me off ...

I dunno. I have made mine from Infiltrators but tossed some deathwatch backpacks and combat blades on them.

[Debauchery101]

So following this weekend I have played games with space wolves/DW and Dw/raptors.

 

Mostly the lists were SW or Raptors with some DW

 

I think the format works better for Space Wolves. I was consistently able maintain board control. I never used Impulsor tanks until recently. They are really awesome for the Space wolves. The iron priest on thunderwolf can hide behind them and repair. He can still throw down in the fight phase as well. One list version I used a squad of reivers and a photos librarian in an impulsor They can hop out after the impulsor moves. The librarian can use psychics to move them. You can position into grenade and terror range for multiple units most of the time. Combo with dw shooting TF out of stuff creates some good opportunities for failing ld for non marine stuff.

 

This tactic is something I use often with raptors but I'm also using snipers and lias to pop characters first

 

All in all I think DW is a great addition to SW. Is it better than pure SW? I think SW like BA can be super devastating of you just go the HTH route. You'll be mostly successful if you're savvy with screening and lining up charges.

 

I think if you're going up against an army that can screen well and wants to charge you then the DW support is definitely a good way to go. Even just 1 large kill team, 2 smaller ones, watch master and a librarian can be taken for around 550-600 pts. I played very aggressive with my DW. I was only trying to use them to get my wolves into the best fights or screen with them. Now if I had gone vs Alpha Legion and the person played super beardy then I think DW would be a waste.

 

On the point of Raptors with DW support...waste all around. Raptors have the same if not better ways to deploy, reposition and deep strike. Raptors have awesome leadership traits, stratagem and relics. I think Raptors should be played as a pure list.

 

I also do see merit in using a lot more DW and raptors as support. Like camo scouts, eliminators and lias. They're good for being a nasty ranged pain in the ass with stealthy and camo. I figure you could use them to hold down your board side while playing with your DW beacon and homers

[Prot]

I do love my Impulsors with my White Scars. I really hate that we didn't get that vehicle.

 

Do you think the Wolves add -that- much to your success rate? I mean... what do you think your DW are missing that allow Wolves to take up the real estate?  Is this not plausible to overcome within the DW codex?

 

Some of the best marine assault units I'm seeing are basic hammer/fist Intercessor Sargents, and we can do that... albeit without a 'super doctrine'. Still we can leverage heavy hammers in Vanguard Squads that are protected by Storm Shields. You don't think that would work?

[Debauchery101]

I do love my Impulsors with my White Scars. I really hate that we didn't get that vehicle.

 

Do you think the Wolves add -that- much to your success rate? I mean... what do you think your DW are missing that allow Wolves to take up the real estate? Is this not plausible to overcome within the DW codex?

 

Some of the best marine assault units I'm seeing are basic hammer/fist Intercessor Sargents, and we can do that... albeit without a 'super doctrine'. Still we can leverage heavy hammers in Vanguard Squads that are protected by Storm Shields. You don't think that would work?

Well my list with the wolves was mostly wolves. So the DW was more fulfilling roles they didn't.

 

The main problem for Intercessors is that they are challenging in DW to line up charges at full str. Deep striking to try a 9in charge is nowhere near reliable. There's no mechanic to get rerolls or bonuses to charge the turn they arrive.

 

DW are in that weird place right now that to have logical access to most of the stuff the newer marine lists have..they become God Mode. Thats also true about intercessors in particular across the board. I actually wish DW could be something like an Operative Requisition. Which is what it used to be...

 

Back to the question though. A lot of shooting durable DW units supported by some hvy hth units that can reliably get into combat would be good. I think blood angels Sanguinary guard supported by an ancient, priest, smash cpt and librarian could really be a dangerous nuke to drop while your kill teams maneuver. Raptors, lias and a captain with 2 warlord traits can deep strike in and charge very reliably plus you can also reliably slap characters pre charge.

 

I'm also looking at heavy use of bikers

3x6 Bikers-homer/chainsword, 4xchainsword, sgt-storm bolter/hammer.

 

12 t5 wounds

24 SIA shots at 12in

20 chainsword and 4 hammer atks

 

3 squads is 468 pts. That's just about 50 pts more than 2 vet kill teams of 1 terminator, sgt, 8 vets that has 10 storm bolters.

 

Ahhh DW...the more I scheme with them the more I think of the other marine armies. Sadly they've set a crazy benchmark that's hard to stay from. Even going from salamanders to raptors...I have to play way more aggressive and I miss the rerolls and ignoring Ap from -1 attacks, flame wall, min max units with heavy weapons to use those rerolls on.

[Mobius0288]

Trying to pick up some ideas from an old thread.. I wanted to use ultramarines for my other space marine army. Any must haves from those who actually play them? Cassius? Tigrus? Specific units to take advantage of when pairing with deathwatch?

 

To give some context, I have the dark imperium primaris dudes (Gravis, Lt, Ancient x2, 15-20 intercessors, 10-15 hellblasters), a couple tacticals loaded with SB and heavy bolter, Sternguard, scout snipers and some extra inceptors.

 

Wanted to consult the hive before digging deeper into the Vanguard Marines. I think aggressors are probably important for ultramarines with the move but counts as not moving. Anything else?

Edited May 22, 2020 by Mobius0288

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I highly recommend taking Tigirius and a vanilla Librarian. Tigirius takes standard psy tree while the other takes the Ultramarines psy tree... he can make Tiggy a psychic monster and gain back CPs. I also like Intercessors with stalker bolt rifles - the move and shoot with no penalty is so dirty. Plasma Inceptors are nasty too since for 1 CP they can reroll 1s to hit without needing a Captain or CM.

Edited May 26, 2020 by Black Blow Fly