Are you still having fun?

[Xenith]

That's basically the question.

 

Chaos is my favourite faction, however I stopped enjoying them somewhere around 6th ed due to all the paperwork that needed doing. I'm rounding off my BA and am considering what faction I want to play around with next. I have substantial Iron Warriors and Thousand Sons armies already, and I'm thinking about painting all the new models for the Sons, or starting an Alpha Legion warband,

 

The initial codex seemed a bit lacklustre, however with all the Legion Specific stuff in faith and fury, it seems like we can have a pretty unique force for each legion, however I don't know if that's enough, so we go back to my question - are you all still having fun with the chaos marines? Is the army fun to use, strong enough to pretty much pick any old options and stand a chance in a casual game, or is it still Codex:Space Marines -1?

 

Thoughts are very welcome, especially regarding Alpha Legion, Iron Warriors and Thousand Sons.

 

Xen

Edited April 21, 2020 by Xenith

[WarriorFish]

I'm still having fun, but it's a very subjective question to answer! Kit bashing my CSM and painting them up for games has them as my primary army currently, and the only reason I'm not working on my Thousand Sons to the same degree is that unfortunate limit of available time

 

The game has always been what you make of it, and a large part of that is who you play it with. There's many different ways to enjoy the hobby; you enjoy it the most when sharing with others in the same camp. That is unfortunately the hard part also as you can't shop for hobby mates as you would models... I'm lucky in that I've long had a hobby gang who enjoy the same game I do, and have acquired more over time (some thanks to the B&C too).

 

Ultimately there's only so much room "at the top" - and this changes as GW giveths and takeths away too. For everyone else, you have to soldier on with what you have. CSM and Thousand Sons could be better, but I know my armies aren't alone there (or my poor Daemons!). They're good enough for me to do what I want and win games in a casual setting so far :)

 

As long as you're working on models, hitting the table with them and posting on the B&C you're winning as far as I'm concerned. Everyone has fun when they're winning, right?

[Marshal Loss]

Still waiting for EC but otherwise reasonably content. :P F&F gave us a lot of flavour. We're not quite at SM levels (nobody is) but the power imbalance is at least tolerable for now, and the models we received last year are insanely cool

[Llagos_Tyrant]

As an Iron Warriors player I am having fun and the added stuff in Faith and Fury is great for flavour and giving me some more tactics, but as a relatively new player in a competitive-ish gaming group, I find it bit challenging too. I generally burn through all my CP in the first turn or so to keep my Havocs alive and powering them up to put in work and set me up to stay in the game once they're gone before Turn 3. Then the rest of the game feels high stakes. Mind you, we've only managed to play up to 500 points so far as we get familiar and comfortable with the rules. That is my biggest issue in the game. We can spend a ton of time painting up and converting great armies and forces, who get wiped off the board turn 1 or 2 before they can do anything. That's the part I enjoy the least.

 

But to come back to your question - Faith and Fury feels like it added a lot that was fun and fluffy for us. I definitely regularly use the strategems, warlord traits and relics in that book. Some of them I was sceptical of at first, but they've grown on me after trying them out in games and getting results. My biggest complaint is that Death to the False Emperor should be automatic additional hits like some Chapter Tactics, and that our Legion Traits are in some ways just worse Chapter Tactics that apply to fewer of our units, like excluding vehicles.

[Xenith]

Everyone has fun when they're winning, right?

 

I might be the exception there, I stopped playing Eldar in 6th for that reason. Slaughtering your opponent, or having to gimp your own game to give them a chance is no fun.

 

They're good enough for me to do what I want and win games in a casual setting so far

 

We're not quite at SM levels (nobody is) but the power imbalance is at least tolerable for now, and the models we received last year are insanely cool

 

As an Iron Warriors player I am having fun and the added stuff in Faith and Fury is great for flavour and giving me some more tactics,

 

Then the rest of the game feels high stakes. 

 

All good stuff guys, thanks for the input! I kind of just collect models with  ahalf copetitive mindeset then put whatever down on the table, I'd like that kind of army to stand half a chance if possible. As long as the codex hasn't become a 2 trick pony like 4th ed Last/Obliterator spam or 6th ed novel writing things seem ok.

 

Chaos has always had the best models, so that's the angle I'm coming at this from. I know CSM are in a similar position to tactical marines (useless?) but I'll still use a few.  Maybe I need to make that Iron Warrior Monster Mash army. 

 

Anyone else having a great 8th ed CSM experience?

[Panzer]

I'd lie if I'd say that my fun isn't slowly dwindling away. That has mostly to do with the high ranged damage output (which also gets amplified by GW reducing points all the time) and doesn't have anything to do with this editions rules or a particular Codex though.

I really like 8e but think the whole power level of the game needs to be brought back in line ... which is never gonna happen because of the massive storm of people complaining about major nerfs of their toys that would follow.

 

All this just means that I'm slowly migrating back towards the fantasy setting of GW where at least the ranged aspect isn't an issue even if it's a very different game compared to the old WHFB. I fear by the time the EC Codex arrives I might already be too invested in AoS to justify buying and painting practically a new army.

Edited April 21, 2020 by Panzer

[Tyriks]

I'm really enjoying the hobby side of it.  I have some struggles while playing right now but I think that's more because of some elements in my group not being great opponents.  

 

I think if you want to be competitive, CSM can be frustrating.  But if you just play fluffy or casual games, I think any of those armies would work.  I haven't run my CSM warband as IW yet but TS and AL for sure can be fun.

[Doom Herald]

I have fun and I tend to do well in the local competitive meta since F&F (Faith & Fury) was released. I also tend to perform best against SM armies, including Primaris. Locally they make a joke that CSM is SM, but worse. I wouldn't say that's true, particularly after F&F, but there's a definite element of truth in it. I have fun, I do pretty well, but I do feel like theres some balancing that still needs to be done. I'm also the kind of person that enjoys finding a way to make the imbalance work, though.

[WarriorFish]

Everyone has fun when they're winning, right?

I might be the exception there

That's sort of my point; only you can define what winning is to you. If it's getting your models on the table, and having a good time with a game or two then you win all the time - and so can your opponent Given that only the minority can "enjoy" the top tier codex/builds this seems a sensible and more reliable way to enjoy the hobby to me. Especially if you collect some of GW's "less loved" armies...

[Hannibal]

I'd lie if I'd say that my fun isn't slowly dwindling away. That has mostly to do with the high ranged damage output (which also gets amplified by GW reducing points all the time) and doesn't have anything to do with this editions rules or a particular Codex though.

I really like 8e but think the whole power level of the game needs to be brought back in line ... which is never gonna happen because of the massive storm of people complaining about major nerfs of their toys that would follow.

 

All this just means that I'm slowly migrating back towards the fantasy setting of GW where at least the ranged aspect isn't an issue even if it's a very different game compared to the old WHFB. I fear by the time the EC Codex arrives I might already be too invested in AoS to justify buying and painting practically a new army.

 I have to agree here. It´s the same for me. I haven´t played a game in months now, primary due to the fact that I terrorized my gaming group with different chaos soups on many times.

Everybody stopped playing me.

 

 

I'm really enjoying the hobby side of it.

It´s the same for me. I just started a new project called Abbadons Plague Legion and so far I enjoy painting the miniatures. Maybe some day there will be a game, maybe not. Who cares.

[battle captain corpus]

I always have fun with my Black Legion! I’ve been collecting them a long time but only games with in 8th edition. I enjoy every aspect of them and like the codex too!

 

But I’m also lucky in that I play WarriorFish a LOT and our chaos forces have a horrific grudge going on now! Plus it helps with his win record. ;)

 

BCC

[Prot]

I am of two minds about it.

 

I have played CSM for a million years... more consistently than any other army I own. Be it Red Corsiars, Crimson Slaughter, Black Legion, DG, Iron Warriors, Thousand Sons... gees that's a lot of CSM.

 

If you enjoy being the perpetual underdong, and playing a seemingly lesser popular faction, this is it.

 

I think Alpha is the cat's meow right now, and the only thing that I believe keeps Chaos relevant right now is Possessed bomb. 

 

I gotta be honest.. it's incredibly boring. It's hero hammer, boosting an unkillable mob that covers the table. 

 

But what's winning overall? It's shooty guys (even top tier Grey Knighst have serious volumes of it.) I don't want to offend anyone but the last few codexes, including (and I still believe) Iron Hands, IG, Tau, Orks, and I can only imagine Necrons, and AdMech when they get done.

 

I can't play like... 90% of my favourite units. Terminators, marines, Daemon vehicles (codex), etc.

 

So if you play just a relaxed competitive game, you're fine with ignoring most of what I typed. I really believe that. But otherwise you're looking at a very similar formula you will see:

 

Thousand Sons Command Detachment (Ahriman/DP/*) This just powers the psychic engine, and makes sure you get the ol' Warp Time in.

 

A Renegade Chapter, or Alpha Legion, perhaps Word Bearers: This is your Battalion and/or possessed bomb.

 

You're going for a T1, or T2 charge. There's tons of info on the interwebs on how to build and play it. I don't really ever soup so for me it's Black Legion (usually pretty ugly results) or Flawless Host (I've used them a lot just to compete).  But from ITC, down to your local club, this is the most popular form of Chaos right now by a mile.

 

The reason for this is the game is ridiculously killy right now. There, very rarely, is prolonged engagement in competitive play now. (Not to go off topic but I believe this is why we are looking at another edition this summer). It's a giant deletion race. 

 

If you play Blood Angels, you know you play one of the more powerful assault, soup friendly armies. You know what it's like getting in there.. it's bloody hard, but now BA hit like a truck. But you have to ... because Tau will chew you to pieces the following turn.

 

That's just how it goes now and Chaos to me are stuck in this weird position of not being ultimately that survivable, or killy.... unless of course we buff our Possessed bombs so they can't be shot, and buff their multi assault to force a massed, unrecoverable deletion of your opponent. A lot of traditional  units don't sell anymore, so they don't have a strong role, and they are over pointed, and lost in transition to new models: Defilers, Fiends, Predators, Landraiders... all old staples that just mull around in mediocrity.

 

I'm okay with Thousand Sons. I have played them a lot again since PA, but the way they wrote the awkward execution of the Cults, in my mind there is no doubt that the result is the Thousand Sons are the best soup Command Detachment for the faction.

 

Other fun stuff is there... Duplicity,  great Strats, some good tricks with double firing, and ways to keep your opponent in fear of your psychic phase. Grey Knights are a massive challenge though. (Anything you have on a disk takes massive smite damage, and stuff like Possessed/DP's, Daemon Engines are in a super tough spot). 

 

After I tried... man I don't know how many times, to make Black Legion work, I kind of gave up. I play Thousand Sons for entertainment but I play a lot of games... 2-3 a week (right now I'm down to 1-2 because of the local GW store)... but TS gets boring because the staple units are very much static. IE: there's only so much you can do with three, nearly identical units of Rubrics even if they are working for you.

 

So my success (and fun) is when I take Chaos Knights into the picture. It forces me to paint new models, without doing Forgeworld. It forces my opponent to shoot something else other than cultists, and Abaddon. 

 

My honest opinion is we must be waiting on a major rules change. This is a weird trap we're in. 2000 point games at the launch of 8th were too long... mine are over in 2-3 turns now. No problem. Chaos sits in this weird inbetween. There's a lot of bad units we have, but we try to get amazing mileage out of Warp Time, Vets of the Long War, and Cacaphony. 

 

Point reductions in Possessed only pushed us harder to that list design. The PA rules only enhanced it. 

 

So I've blabbered a lot. I apologize. The way overdue short version is you gotta play this faction because you love it. You love the models, you love the hobby of Chaos, you love the background, and maybe a mix of that stuff. I really don't think any bandwagon guys are on this ride right now.

 

To be honest I watched 90% of them leave (my area) when it looked like Disco Lords were dropping too easily, and marine rules took the Dark Apostle and put him on steroids combined with amazing rules. I am back to being pretty much the 'CSM guy' in my area. (not a title I would recommend you covet. :) )

[Xenith]

Thanks Prot, that pretty much resonates with my experiences and impression, hence my hesitance to jump back into Chaos. I generally make armies that are fluffy and consist of painted models but when theyre on the table I play to win, so usually do ok. My local store isn't that competitive, however there are a couple of tryhards that bring double riptides every game and the like. Not played them yet and don't really fancy it. 

 

I got gifted some TS stuff and not made time to paint it, basically one of each new unit. I think I'll probably paint them up then mess around with some armies. I always loved CSM for the storytelling and conversions. Best hobby army by far. 

 

 

 I am back to being pretty much the 'CSM guy' in my area. (not a title I would recommend you covet. )

 

Not something I mind at all! I've been "The Blood Angel Guy" for night on two decades. I got some pretty weird looks in my former, super competitive store when playing them in 6/7th ed and the start of 8th.

 

Weirdly my store has 2 Thousand Sons players, strange when I used to be the only one in 3rd ed, but nice. As long as I can be the Sorceror Supreme, then I'm happy.

[MaliGn]

I am, but that's because i'm 99% a painter rather than a gamer these days so efficacy on the table isn't my priority and since the models are now so good that they now look kinda how I was converting them to look a decade ago then I am in a pretty good place right now. I would like to play more, but my army isn't quite in a playable state right now (despite being bigger than ever) I'd need a really relaxed setting to get much out of what I've got at the moment. I reckon, bit there we go, looks good.

[techsoldaten]

I'm having fun the same way I have fun with math problems. I'm running 5 different lists, all of them are unorthodox. Feels like we lost the theme.

[Irate Khornate]

As a hobbyist, im having a blast. These new sculpts and models have so much potential.

 

As a Khornate who longs for melee combat? Not so much. Early 8th was great. Now I tend to loose most of my army before I get there. Got to the point I bought 3 Contemptor Dreads with double twin las for my World Eaters. They're the only reliable shooting platforms I don't have to either soup in, or waste valuable resources other than a Lord to babysit them.

[Gederas]

As a hobbyist, im having a blast. These new sculpts and models have so much potential.

 

As a Khornate who longs for melee combat? Not so much. Early 8th was great. Now I tend to loose most of my army before I get there. Got to the point I bought 3 Contemptor Dreads with double twin las for my World Eaters. They're the only reliable shooting platforms I don't have to either soup in, or waste valuable resources other than a Lord to babysit them.

This, pretty much.

 

My World Eaters aren't getting touched until Berzerkers get an updated kit.

 

With my Night Lords, I'm loving the new sculpts for everything. I have such fun converting and painting them.

 

Playing? My Night Lords stress me out because they require some very technical, skilled play to deal with my opponents. Especially the one who plays mainly Primaris Marines.  Hoo boy.... Those games are stressful. :lol:

[Relic]

Well with the current isolation 40k is out of the window...so not having much fun!

 

I love the fluff of Chaos Space Marines. Soup forces even makes fluff sense I suppose but I dislike that if you want to be decently competitive a few elements are no brainer's. I guess you could say other books are in the same boat though! Chaos as a soup faction has great psychic, powerful melee and can make one unit like Obliterators to go ham with stratagems and psychic support. 

 

Possesed bomb and hero hammer is bleh but effective!

[Goreshed]

Chaos has always been fun for me because its not what the opponent brings onto the table but what I bring and what I do.

 

You may think I'm crazy for saying such but it's true. Does this mean I enjoy getting tabled against some crazy internet tournament list? Not particularly. But that doesn't mean I can't try and beat it. Do I enjoy playing against the play style of 'I have to beat you no matter the cost!'? Again, no. But I love a good challenge and will try to win anyways. I enjoy the look of a chaos army on the table with all of its conversion goodness that the loyalists cannot even come close to matching. I enjoy writing fluff and creating fluff with others to reflect a genre that I love. Playing a game of 40k is just one part of it, but for me and my happiness it is not the end all be all of it.

 

At the end of the day I know that no matter how the dice gods favor the battlefield, what -I- bring to the table both in conversions, fluff and general attitude, that it will reflect my passion for a hobby I've been into for twenty years now.

[Xenith]

Thanks all! I'm aware that a thread like this could have gone south, quickly, so good work in keeping it on track.

 

As for my playstyle, I'm more about the cinematics and doing fun things- Herohammer works for me as my warband is the story of my Chaos Lord, so if he can go on a rampage and drink all the wap juice, then all is good with me. I've had a look through the codex and FaF, and think I can get something fun out of them. At any rate, I'll make some models -  I grabbed my Thousand Sons models out of storage yesterday and will have a go at getting paint on some Scarabs...maybe finish off the cultists I started when Dark Vengeance was released...

[WarriorFish]

Don't forget a WIP topic in the Thousand Sons section to show them off ;) The Scarab Occult Terminators are great models, even amongst the excellent range that is the Sons :)

[Xenith]

Don't forget a WIP topic in the Thousand Sons section to show them off The Scarab Occult Terminators are great models, even amongst the excellent range that is the Sons

 

Haha, I have an amalgamated Chaos Legions Plog in my signature, though it's suffered recently, my Chaos has really been neglected since I joined B&C with all the painting challenges I've joined as BA. 

 

Might post showcase stuff in the TS forum and have the WIP in the Forge. 

[Special Officer Doofy]

I am not having fun playing anymore with them. Since 9/10 players in my area are space marines, it got less and less fun getting shot off the table over and over. Ranged > melee, which is fine, but the firepower has got a little out of hand. The space marine supplements were the final straw for me, I don't really see psychic awakening as even close to closing the power creep gap. So I haven't played a game myself yet in 2020 or gave GW a dollar since then.

 

I will say though, the modeling, converting and painting side of chaos has always been more fun with more freedom for me, which is one of the only things that have kept me in the hobby throughout the years. I'm sure whenever the rumored 8.5/9e drop and new codexes come out things will get better, but until then, no business from me haha.

[Xenith]

Interesting to see, and much as I suspected - Chaos is still domnantly a modellers army. I guess most of the fun will have to be taken from messing around with rules and strats, seeing what I can do. I've been on the receiving end of black knight plasma bombs and such, and I dont see what CSM have that can match that firepower. Maybe a Knight?

[dice4thedicegod]

I rely on cheap screens for characters (say chaos spawn) to soak up firepower, and trying to get the characters into melee.

 

Anything that doesn’t have character protection has to be cheap (I.e. if I field a helbrute, I like him to be 90 points, not some expensive load out... hurts less when they die). If your lords and princes get in close, you can still kill the opponent.