Hypothetical Horus Heresy Series

[b1soul]

The loss of Beta Garmon should be the point the Terran Siege becomes inevitable. So easily the most pivotal battle post-Istvaan

 

EDIT: A lot of the drag during the Age of Darkness comes from Imperium Secundus and people who don't need to be at Terra showing up at Terra

[bluntblade]

I think Russ, Vulkan and maybe Sanguinius and Jaghatai for a time should be active on the front lines before Beta-Garmon.

[b1soul]

I'd also argue that Guilliman should be forced to choose between preserving Ultramar and helping Terra

 

I didn't feel that with the Imperium Secundus arc. It felt like the primarchs could've left much earlier but chose to assume the Emperor was dead while Ultramar was relatively secure save for Curze and his pesky NL, which shouldn't be enough to keep three primarchs occupied for so long.

 

The Shadow Crusade shouldn't have petered out as fast as it did.

[bluntblade]

That should really have been present in some shorts between KNF and UE.

[b1soul]

You mean more WB and WE and the cullts and demons and such. That was wrapped up far too quickly IMO. The threats of Curze and Skraivok should have been added on top of that, rather than replacing

[Roomsky]

Iron Warriors – John French

POV Marine: Volk

 

The Arc: Perturabo begins bitter and volatile, but eventually accepts his role as Horus’ most reliable lieutenant, and finds purpose. Volk is a staunch supporter of Perturabo's actions, but finds the primarch ultimately cares little for his own legion.

 

1. After Isstvan V, Perturabo is eager to get easy revenge on the Imperial Fists. Three stories run concurrently: The Battle of Phall, The Destruction of Olympia, and the campaign with the Fists which sparked Perturabo's eternal ire. All three follow a similar negative character arc, and end concurrently with Perturabo's failure at each, be they by military blunders or character flaws. Volk is a staunch supporter of his primarch, and rallies his men to revel in the gift he has given them (revenge on the Fists). Pollux's fleet is managing to stalemate Perturabo's, the story ends with Pert being summoned back to the Warmaster's side before his vengeance is done, as Phall's drawn-out conflict is turning into a massive waste of resources. Perturabo rages at being denied his revenge, and justice for his sons.

 

2. Sota-Nul of the Dark Mechanicum has set her sight on Tallarn, and requests legion support. Horus, viewing Perturabo as something of a liability, sends the Iron Warriors to an apparently easy victory, with Argonis tagging along to keep an eye on things. At The Battle of Tallarn, Perturabo begins to embrace his legion's role as siege masters, finding some satisfaction in that none do it better. Volk spins this development into a positive to his brothers, saying they are finally a force to be glorified and feared throughout the loyal Imperium, and that their average losses have decreased dramatically compared to the Great Crusade. It is revealed Sota-Nul is using the legion as a distraction to pursue the Black Oculus and other archeotech hidden on the world, with the intent of using it as leverage for Mechanicum independance. The story ends with Perturabo revealing he was on to her scheme from the beginning, and claims the trove for himself and the legions. Horus is impressed with Perturabo's conduct, and summons him back to his side.

 

3. At The Siege of Terra, Perturabo gleefully deconstructs Dorn’s defences, having fully embraced his role. Volk is given command of several successful attacks on the Palace Walls, and feels his views are now fully justified. When the siege begins to stalemate, as at Phall, Perturabo makes his first concessions to Chaos, allowing Volk and his closest brothers to become the first Obliterators, while sending the remainder of Volk's men to their inevitable deaths. This move nevertheless cracks Dorn's defenses open in a key area. Volk reflects that he was wrong, and that the Iron Warriors are little more than points of data to their primarch. When Perturabo hears of Horus' death, he finds it ironic that Horus was too proud to embody his role in life as the Lord of Iron, and died for it. He coordinates an orderly retreat, ironically suffering minimal losses compared to the other traitor legions.

 

 

So I really like the treatment the IVth have gotten in the actual Heresy series, mostly thanks to French. I know he has his detractors, but French's Perturabo has a satisfying change from bitter man-child to Horus' most dangerous weapon. I tried to capture that here, if a little more concisely.

 

I wanted to tone down Perturabo's active malevolence just a smidge; he seems to lack that primarch charisma present in his brothers. To keep his brutal streak, I imagine him as more of a fair-weather father figure. He's happy to lead his legion to power and glory, and encourages promotion and egalitarianism. At the end of the day though, he won't hesitate to send every last legionary into a wood-chipper if it means victory. It's only when he acknowledges this himself, and stops trying to be Horus or Sanguinius, that he comes into his own.

 

Volk sees only the good side of his primarch, and for all the awful drudgery is the IV legion equivalent of an optimist. The World Eaters are desperate to bond with Angron despite his wasteful contempt of his legion, and even at his worst Perturabo isn't as vile to his men. As such, I don't see why the Iron Warriors wouldn't still look up to him, despite his flaws and flailing attempts at classical charisma. For example: Volk blames Berossus for his internment, and it's not until he's growing fleshy gun barrels that he realizes "maybe that guy had a point."

 

Coverage of Isstvan V wasn't a priority as the Iron Warriors don't have a terribly personal stake in the conflict. The Imperial Fists are always on the legions mind, which I'll contrast later when I get to Dorn. The boys in yellow lump the IVth in with all the other traitorous filth, but the Iron Warriors can't seem to get over that one painting from decades ago.

 

Most of all, I wanted to show the legion as dangerous successful in their own way, despite their repeated inability to live up what they want to be. They are a much keener edge thanks to a lack of overt corruption, but inside are just as flawed as their warp-infused cousins.

[RikuEru]

Without naming too many possible examples, in general I would have liked more Novels having a counterpart, a la:

 

Prospero Burns <-> A Thousand Sons

 

AFAIK BOTH of these books are relatively well recieved in general AND by their respective faction-fans.

(And can still hold up quite well, even tho they were pretty early in the series.)

((...and even tho the portrayal of the Burning of Prospero in FW's Inferno has raised some... concerns, let's say.))

 

Obviously they didn't show all the same scenes, just from two sides.

But it's the same conflict, the same battle.

Both sides get a good showing and you get to know their motivations, how they work, how they think, what they believe and WHAT THEY BELIEVE TO BE RIGHT.

 

It shows the 'tragedy' side of the heresy. It gives more weight to the whole ordeal, because you get to understand both sides' positions.

 

And while I am probably not as well-versed as many others in the BL sub-forum, what I could glean from many discussions was that many of the books that were disappointing or fell flat, did so because they were pretty one sided.

 

Also it would have forced authors to work together even more (not to say they never did before the Siege series) and inspired each other in ways they alone might not have seen.

 

Maybe the Salamanders would have had a better standing if Kyme had been paired up with another author for each of the novels?

(Only as an example)

 

++++++++++

 

On another note: Sub-plots/Side-plots should have gotten their own novellas/novels, to give the main stories more breathing room.

(Which could ALSO give room to put an opposing side's view into books)

 

For example:

I liked Cawl's Backstory and the insight into the Mechanicum in Wolfsbane.

But why WAS it in Wolfsbane?

Just because it was part of the Battle of Trisolian?

 

 

TL;DR:

- More counterpart viewpoints for some battles/conflicts.

- More cooperation (than we may notice) between authors.

- Side-Stories split off into seperate books.

Edited April 28, 2020 by RikuEru

[Roomsky]

White Scars – Chris Wraight

POV Marines: Shiban Khan, Torghun Khan

 

The arc: Jaghatai is unsure where his loyalties lie. The rashness of the traitors pushes him into the arms of the loyalists, only for his few ties to the Emperor to die as well. He is galvanized in his belief that his habit of uncoordinated solo-action is his lot in life.

 

1. The story features flashbacks to Chogoris and Ullanor, Jaghatai feels isolated from all but a handful of his brothers. Begin at the Battle of Chondax, which introduces Shiban and Wraight’s other Scars as they kill orks (similar to BotS). The Scars discover Alpha legion involvement, confusing Jaghatai and the loyalists. The Alpha Legionnaires escape before extensive questioning can occur, but they allude to the razing of Prospero. Torghun and the traitors acknowledge that this is the signal to begin their work in turning Jaghatai to their cause. The Scars encounter the Space Wolves and Alpha Legion fleet at Alaxxes, but are convinced by the traitors in his ranks to remain neutral. They flee, heading to Prospero for answers. 

 

2. The Scars arrive on Prospero and meet the remaining Magnus shard. Magnus tells Jaghatai of Dark Glass, but that it is up to the Khan how he uses the knowledge. Still unsure, they are soon confronted by the Emperor’s Children, Eidolon in command. Eidolon botches the diplomacy despite urging from the V legion traitors, and fighting ensues. The Scars flee, and Jaghatai banishes the Sagyar Mazan. The Scars investigate several dead ends before coming upon Dark Glass and the webway gate, but they are pursued by Eidolon, apparently with aid from Torghun and the other Sagyar Mazan. After another bout of void warfare with the III legion, they manage to warp to Terra at great cost, destroying the gate behind them. Shiban lies near death, but is rebuilt as Tachseer.

 

3. The Siege of Terra. Jaghatai rides a Land Raider and retakes the Lion’s Gate from the III legion, who are an effective defense by virtue of their numbers. Jaghatai briefly engages Fulgrim in a duel, but they are soon both pulled apart by the ongoing battle. Fulgrim decides the Vth aren’t worth the trouble, and leads his legion to start menacing civilians. Torghun and his brothers reveal they were feigning loyalty to the III legion, and apparently kill Eidolon. They seize the bridge of his flagship, inflicting some damage to the traitor fleet before their deaths. Jaghatai fights his way through the Vengeful Spirit, but of course arrives too late to assist the Emperor. He reflects that what few ties to the greater Imperium he had are dead, and that it is time to return to their role as lone hunters.

 

 

This was a toughie, Wraight's existing work with the legion is basically already perfect, and I don't claim to improve on them. My only goal here was to fit things into my 3 book structure, and make it more applicable to my compressed timeline. Besides the Death Guard, if I didn't specifically mention something here from Wraight's books, I probably still imagine it playing a key role (can't have the Scars without Ravallion!). My hypothetical Heresy also has Wraight tackling Mortarion and his sons, so I'm not using him here. (Yes, I'm implying Mortarion exists in the Scars books solely so a competent writer can have at him). Similarely, I'd save Henricos for an actual Iron Hands book.

 

Something I'm playing with in these is that the reader follows the legion's point of view. In The Emperor's Children books, Eidolon would be a distant figure, active only in his incompetence. This is driven home at the Siege where he dies off screen, apparently confirming his uselessness. With the Scars, Eidolon is the main facet of the legion shown, and is a competent commander and significant threat. Eidolon would disparage his brethren as a bunch of lazy degenerates, apparently confirmed by the fact that they quit the Siege at the earliest opportunity. By reading both the reader gets a full picture, but they work fine on their own.

 

Again, I don't have much to add for the Scars themselves. If Wraight did it, I would too. I didn't expand on Shiban's role because he's just doing what happened in the actual books.

 

 

Join me next time as I try to figure out how Valdor got back to Terra after Prospero but Leman did not.

[DarkChaplain]

I'm honestly surprised you picked French for Perturabo. Though that's a given, considering I'm one of those folks who liked his version of Perturabo the least of all, and considers the Tallarn novel he's directly involved in a dumpster fire of wasted potential, sold on things it didn't really end up showing. His original view of Perturabo in The Crimson Fist was the angriest in the series, in my eyes - as much as I enjoyed The Crimson Fist for various reasons, Pert wasn't one of them.

 

Generally I'm favorable to your ideas, though. There are a few nitpicks because there are narrative beats and characterizations the streamlining would need to cut out or rephrase and recontextualize, but that's kind of the idea, innit.

 

The Valdor/Russ conundrum should be interesting.

[Roomsky]

I'm honestly surprised you picked French for Perturabo. Though that's a given, considering I'm one of those folks who liked his version of Perturabo the least of all, and considers the Tallarn novel he's directly involved in a dumpster fire of wasted potential, sold on things it didn't really end up showing. His original view of Perturabo in The Crimson Fist was the angriest in the series, in my eyes - as much as I enjoyed The Crimson Fist for various reasons, Pert wasn't one of them.

 

Generally I'm favorable to your ideas, though. There are a few nitpicks because there are narrative beats and characterizations the streamlining would need to cut out or rephrase and recontextualize, but that's kind of the idea, innit.

 

The Valdor/Russ conundrum should be interesting.

 

Glad you and others appreciate it so far, it's been a project brewing in my head for a while and it's nice to finally get around to writing it out.

 

Being that the actual Horus Heresy was such a scattershot, there are some cool and out there things that a more limited approach can't accommodate, and that's something I hope people come to appreciate as more outlines of what a streamlined series would look like get posted. I love moments like Perturabo facing down Angron, the trial of Konrad Curze, and a whole mountain of short stories with no narrative significance (hello Last Remembrancer). Hell, with my 3 books per legion structure I'm not going to be able to give The Flight of the Eisenstein much coverage. I intend my own series of suggestions to be a hypothetical with a different focus, and I'd hardly be writing it if I didn't love the series we got, warts and all.

 

re: Perturabo

 

So after I read my first 3 Heresy books (Horus Rising, The First Heretic, Know no Fear), I did a bunch of wiki browsing because I'd fallen in love with the setting. The write-ups on both Lexicanum and 1d4chan painted Perturabo as a volatile, bitter, and callous :cuss with no redeeming qualities. The Crimson Fist portrayed that to a T, so while I really enjoyed Mcneill's more sympathetic take on the character, I've always had that personal bias. French's Pert is my Pert. That, and I think French gave the Lord of Iron and actual arc from The Crimson Fist throug Tallarn through Slaves to Darkness, something I the Heresy we got failed at for the majority of primarchs.

 

This hypothetical is also already a mire of Abnett, ADB, and Wraight, so I try to go for a dark horse when I can and I'm not a huge fan of Mcneill or Haley. 

[Roomsky]

Space Wolves – Dan Abnett

 

POV Marine: Amlodhi Skarssen Skarssensson

Throughline: Leman Russ and his wolves are a somewhat arrogant lot, and take their role as Emperors Executioners very seriously. After being repeatedly humbled, they accept they are not so different from the other legions, and find better success by embracing cooperation.

 

1. On Shrike, during the Great Crusade, the Rout are conquering with ease. The Thousand Sons arrive in pursuit of knowledge, frustrating the Wolves as they are already rivals, and believe other legions are something of a nuisance. Russ tries to limit Magnus' activities, as he is collecting apparently evil tomes and forbidden knowledge from Shrike's libraries. It comes to a head when the flesh change violently affects one of Magnus’ sons; the abomination kills three Wolves before dying. Russ states he has let Magnus run wild for too long, and begins his campaign for Nikea. He finds an unexpected ally in Mortarion, and the two are successful at Magnus’ trial.

 

2. Russ is informed of Magnus’ breaching the webway gate, and is tasked with returning him to Terra. Valdor, leading a group of Custodes and Silent Sisters are sent to bolster their fleet and lend authority to Russ’ demands. Russ receives amended orders from Horus, apparently due to growing tumult in the warp making Terra unreachable, and is instructed to execute Magnus instead. Russ arrives at Prospero, and demands Magnus surrender himself so that his legion and people be spared, however, Tzeentch shenanigans mean he receives no response, and the planetary defenses open fire on the Wolves’ fleet. The Razing of Prospero ensues, with Russ shattering Magnus and apparently destroying his legion. Russ considers this a victory, though the Wolves are reduced to ~1/2 strength.

 

3. While in Prosperine orbit conducting fleet repair, Valdor receives news of Horus’ treachery. He urges Russ to return to Terra with him, but Russ insists on a proactive approach and believes he can match any legion. He travels to Isstvan as reinforcement, but arrives too late. He moves back towards the Throneworld, eventually falling into an Alpha Legion ambush at Alaxxes. The Alphas taunt him over being Horus’ puppet in removing Magnus, and quickly reduced the Wolves’ fleet to ~1/3 strength with minimal losses. Russ barely manages to coordinate an escape, though the Hrafnkel is destroyed along with much of their fleet infrastructure. The remainder of the VI make for Terra, with Russ falling into a depression, believing he bought too far into his own legend. The Wolves are halted at the traitor rear-guard blockade at Beta-Garmon. Russ considers a final blaze of glory for his legion, dying as warriors on the planet surface, when he hears new of Guilliman’s impending arrival. He opts instead to take the more humble role of assisting in clearing the way, for the first time acting to allow another legion to deliver the killing blow.

 

 

The Wolves.

 

Oh god. The Wolves.

 

So I now understand what the Heresy writers meant by some events not making sense, and why Leman got so much added screen time in the novels.

 

So Russ is sent to Prospero, let’s be generous timeline wise, just before Isstvan V. He goes there with Valdor. The Wolves and Thousand Sons do severe damage to each other, let’s say the Wolves come out of it at half strength (which are frankly massive losses). We are to believe that after this, Russ does not reach Terra in time to assist in the Siege.

 

So first of all, Valdor makes it back to Terra. How did this happen if the Wolves did not? If we are to blame Alaxxes, why did Valdor also not get caught there? Speaking of Alaxxes, the Alphas need a fleet that they believe will guarantee victory, so let’s call it half of their legion as well. So, what, did Ferrus not find it odd that only half the Alpha legion showed up for Isstvan? Even being mysterious, you’d think someone would comment on their legion being half the size of the others present.

 

So then what, the Alphas hold them at Alaxxes for at least months without also killing them all? What were they doing? Prospero is significantly closer to Terra than Isstvan. If the Wolves made a timely escape, what were they doing? Did they run out of fuel? Did they dick around for a while? I honestly don’t know.

 

So I had to recontextualize Alaxxes into an ambush for confident, battle ready Space Wolves rather than a broken legion making their way back to Terra. This gives Russ some transit time that isn’t just written off as “warp :cussery,” and gives just that much more pride before the fall. He initially travels to Isstvan because of course Russ believes he's going to swoop in with his hero legion and save the day.

 

So I do think Russ has a nice arc in the Heresy proper, it was just rather muddy. The changed man we meet in Wolfsbane was unfortunately acting decidedly unchanged all the way up to that point, too many cooks in the kitchen for poor Russ. Here, we give Leman every reason in the world to think he’s hot before he realizes he overhyped himself.

 

His big epiphany is a more positive change than the Lion’s, and he acts as a sort of foil. While the Lion refused to acknowledge his flaws (and then immediately "died"), Russ decides the only way forward is to address them dramatically. He could easily fall back on everything that lead up to his failure, start an honourable, in person last stand, or some dramatic fleet action as a hail mary to cripple the defenses at Beta Garmon, but he knows deep down both would accomplish nothing. He knows it’s no time to grandstand and that a subversive, support role is his only way to make a difference in the battles to come. There is hope for the future, because he doesn’t turn away from change.

 

I’d use Amlodhi for a protagonist by virtue of him being in a commanding role, but not too close to Russ, he’s a good in-between that gives excuses to show battlefields and strategiums. And, of course, we don't know what happens to him. Despite a self-imposed "protagonists must be expendable" rule, I was still sorely tempted to use Bjorn. It's amazing how much the novel series convinced me that some guy with a missing hand is apparently the most important Space Wolf ever. As with the other legionaries that last until 40k, I'd definitely keep him as a cameo / perhaps a minor supporting role. I'll admit to not having a distinct arc in mind for Amlodhi, rather he's a marine foil for Russ' own development. With Russ he is proud and feels invincible, and with Russ he is humbled and must learn to accept change. 

Edited April 29, 2020 by Roomsky

[b1soul]

A lot of problems would be fixed if the Loyalists (sans IF and Shattered Legions) are cut off and/or battered 

 

The Ruinstorm is a great plot-device as it makes Warp travel very difficult (but not impossible) for the Loyalists and quite easy for the Traitors. I might have the beginnings of the Ruinstorm start with the sacrifice of Prospero and then be strengthened even further by the Shadow Crusade. 

 

In a way, I also think BL under-used the AL while overusing the NL. If the AL are so huge (which is possible due to their secretive nature), they could reinforce Traitor efforts on multiple fronts) 

 

1. DA: occupied in a full legion vs. legion conflict with the NL and internally split between pro-Luther and pro-Lion factions (NL are given substantial AL support) -- I'd also change the dynamic here, instead of the DA being led on a wild goose chase by the NL, the NL and AL are trying to hunt down the DA, who are trying to avoid being enveloped by Traitors. Pitting AL against DA is also interesting, as these are two of the most distruplease be quietl legions in different ways 
2. WS: hounded by elements of four Traitor Legions after being wittled down at Chondax and then suffering a civil war above Prospero  
3. SW: Mauled at Prospero (despite their victory) and then devastated at Alaxxes
4. BA: Signus debacle (Warp time dilation could be used here to prolong the BA's absence from the perspective of other Imperials) -- a late-game link-up with the WS before reaching Terra could have been very cool  
5. Ultramarines: Shadow Crusade should have been milked more (substantial AL elements are also involved, not just WB and WE) -- the AL involvement here jives with the UM/AL rivalry  

Edited April 29, 2020 by b1soul

[bluntblade]

I'd be wary of doing that tbh.

 

I'm less concerned about a limited number of books and more a loose structure within the wider narrative. May have thoughts in detail later.

[b1soul]

Wary of more AL presence?

[bluntblade]

Yep. I think we'd gain more from a heavier Sons of Horus presence and playing up the Traitor Army and Mechanicum.

[b1soul]

Good point. That could work too.

[bluntblade]

Basically, the kind of events depicted in the third and fourth FW books should have cropped up more in the BL material from around that time.

[bluntblade]

My thoughts here are markedly similar to those I have about the MCU; I want to see more change and consequence to events, as well as greater detail on the galaxy beyond the Legions.

 

On that front, I would actually use one or a couple of novels to spotlight the situation after Isstvan V, for using on the Traitors' advance and the attempts of the Shattered Legions and their allies to respond.

 

The Traitors' book/strands would centre on Abaddon and the more brutal elements of the Sons of Horus, plus maybe some Emperor's Children or Iron Warriors but definitely some Traitor Titans, Army/Solar Auxilia and Knights (Wrækan Dreor!) I'd also use this to explore the insidious ways that Chaos begins to infest the Legions, as opposed to waiting until Path of Heaven to get it. Particularly as the Traitors will mostly be on a frightening roll here.

 

The same approach to the Shattered Legions' various component forces would highlight their desperate situation., with the proud Iron Hands having to change their ways and fight alongside their cousins and mere mortals. All of which would serve to emphasise the strategic situation.

[bluntblade]

So my "phases" would likely go:

 

1 - the late Crusade, later expanded on by the Primarch books and culminating with Isstvan III and V

 

2 - the initial confusion and panic, with the Loyalists trying to respond as the rest of the Legions are pitched into the war. Horus' new objectives are made clear, with the conflict coming to revolve around Molech as corruption worms its way into the Traitors. We get focus in the mortal forces on both sides and the newborn Dark Mechanicum. The hot-housing of new Legionaries begins/returns/escalates on both sides, depending on the Legion in question.

 

3 - Post-Molech, things escalate as more and more of the Galaxy falls under Horus' sway. Russ and perhaps Sanguinius and Vulkan fight to hold everything together at the outer limits of the vast defensive network Dorn has created, while the Khan (the Scars' arc remains unchanged) and Corvus operate behind the enemy frontline along with the Shattered Legions. Everything spirals down to Beta-Garmon.

 

4 - Beta-Garmon climaxes with Russ assaulting Horus, managing to wound him with the spear and allowing Slaves to Darkness to run as in canon, while the Wolves pay the price for their daring assault and are driven far from the front, ultimately saved by the Dark Angels. Meanwhile the Ultramarines break through the Ruinstorm, Guilliman collecting every asset and ally he can find along the way, and we're off to Terra. The presence of the "Newborn" among the Legions becomes increasingly pronounced.

 

5 - the Siege.

Edited May 1, 2020 by bluntblade

[Roomsky]

Imperial Fists: John French

POV Marines: Camba Diaz, Archamus

 

The arc: Rogal Dorn refuses to accept the galaxy is changing forever; in his mind the Emperor’s dream can never die, and places all his faith in that future. It is only with the Emperor’s internment that he faces the reality that he’s already crossed that horizon. Camba Diaz is one of many more pessimistic voices that Dorn must contend with.

 

Prologue: Rogal Dorn meets with Garro, bringing news of Horus’ treachery, raging out of disbelief and his feeling of betrayal. Sigismund meets with Keeler. Dorn strategizes Isstvan V with Ferrus, sees his fleet off with Yonnad in command, Sigismund stays behind as per Keeler’s recommendation. Diaz accompanies the fleet, and assists Polux at The Battle of Phall. Sigismund admits his reason for staying to Dorn, who rages and disowns him. He recalls the fleet, which is just managing to stalemate the overconfident Iron Warriors. Polux has devised a suicidal charge to destroy the Iron Blood, but submits to duty, taking massive losses in his retreat. Dorn admits to Malcador his fear is that Horus will irreparably damage mankind’s glorious future, with flashbacks to Ullanor and Curze’s attack. Polux, on return, is Dorn’s replacement for Sigismund, who has been banished to the outer spheres.

 

Prologue: The Last Remembrancer. The Imperial Fists struggle to contain uprisings in the Sol system, balancing efficiency with a humanitarian approach. Camba Diaz is sent to reclaim precious resources from a rebelling Mars, but is trapped there for a time. Uprisings appear to be expected despair at Horus’ rebellion and Ferrus’ death, but it is soon discovered the public is being inflamed by the Alpha Legion. Dorn is reluctant to stoop to counter-espionage, but eventually makes use of it to locate the Alpha Legion cell. Diaz escapes Mars, Dorn confronts “Alpharius,” who has fled to Pluto for extraction from the system. The two duel, “Alpharius” being slightly less obtuse about the acuity than he is in PoD, but is slain. Dorn covers up the conspiracy, as he will not have the Imperial public persecuted by association.

 

Prologue: Sigismund flees to Terra at the loss of the Solar War. As The Siege of Terra begins Dorn coordinates the defence of the palace from the Bhab Bastion. Sigismund returns, Dorn sends him to the front lines to die. Perturabo strikes his crippling blow, Archamus implies Dorn could have fortified that section of the Palace more effectively if he had been more cruelly pragmatic, and that many more will die now because of it. Dorn does not respond. Sigismund dispatches traitors left and right before duelling Khârn. Khârn is killed and Sigismund is incapacitated, but is retrieved by Camba Diaz. Dorn travels to the Vengeful Spirit with his brothers, but is separated. Archamus is killed by the Justaerian, Dorn chooses to rush Lupercal’s court rather than save him. He arrives too late, and despairs. After the Emperor is interred, he meets again with Sigismund. He is not forgiven, but Dorn admits he is no better.

 

I really like both of the Heresy’s prominent Dorns: Abnett’s doomed optimist and French’s stoic rage monster. Like all primarchs, I would hope this hypothetical gives them the personability they deserve, balanced here by Dorn taking offence to what he perceives as bordering on pessimistic sedition. At the start of his arc, he reacts extremely poorly to Sigismund’s admission, but as the Heresy progresses he gets less and less impassioned at betrayals of his ideals. By the end, he can no longer bring himself to rage against those small betrayals, as he believes he has allowed himself to stoop to their level.

 

Camba Diaz here takes the active role: through his eyes we see Phall, a traitorous Mars, and Sigismund’s rampage. Archamus is closer to home, the eyes through which we see Dorn’s character arc. Both act as foils to Dorn, rather than having significant arcs of their own.

 

I love The Crimson Fist, but I wanted to make it a bit more of an even showing. As shown in Perturabo’s books, it’s significant enough that Polux is stalemating them, rather than having a distinct advantage. I would hope, however, that if a reader read both series they’d see ambiguity over whether or not Sigismund’s planned final charge would have been successful or not. Perturabo believed he would guarantee victory with more time, as does Polux. Both are recalled by their masters before it can play out.

 

Dorn’s object of rage is Horus himself. Even in the first and last books, where Perturabo is his primary antagonist. Dorn does not linger on their legion rivalry, he does not share Pert’s petty attitude. Horus goes unseen until Dorn sees his corpse, but the reader never forgets the architect of Dorn’s descent. It’s a bit of Irony that Dorn never sees the traitorous Horus alive.

 

The conflict with the Alpha Legion is a vehicle for seeing Terra coming apart amidst the Heresy. I appreciate the rivalry being played up in Praetorian, but here they’re more of a faceless enemy, yet another blade in Horus’ arsenal against Dorn’s resolve. “Alpharius” being the primarch himself is implied, but is unverifiable in-universe.

Edited May 1, 2020 by Roomsky

[Tyriks]

I would have preferred if instead of having one Horus Heresy series, we had a collection of short series.  Like Horus Heresy: Road to Istvaan (or whatever they would name that series) for a few books establishing a few of the Traitor Legions and getting them ready to rebel.  Then Horus Heresy: Prospero's Doom or whatever for stories about the Thousand Sons leading up to and following the burning of Prospero.  Preferably these short series would be released concurrently with each other but it would make reading it a lot easier - to read Road to Istvaan book 5 you would know which books are directly necessary.  I found it really hard to keep reading the HH series after they got somewhere into the twenties because some of the narrative threads were just not enjoyable to me so I didn't follow through on them, but then they randomly were critical to understanding what happened in apparently unrelated books.  Under this structure I would expect that specific plot points would be fully resolved within the particular series to avoid anything like the confusion we have now.  Major characters could appear in multiple series (i.e. the Primarchs, first captains and other legion leadership, what have you) but this would hopefully be limited so not every series that involves the Thousand Sons has the same list of characters but new characters would be introduced more.  

 

As it is, I haven't read anything from the Heresy besides Master of Mankind in a couple years.  I couldn't pick up a book I heard good things about without first going online and checking if any books directly fed into that one.  Things came up constantly that I didn't know what was happening or what book I missed that would have explained it, which was not helped by the fact that one book might largely reimagine what had happened in previous books or use an established character with no regards to what they had done previously.

[Roomsky]

 

As it is, I haven't read anything from the Heresy besides Master of Mankind in a couple years.  I couldn't pick up a book I heard good things about without first going online and checking if any books directly fed into that one.  Things came up constantly that I didn't know what was happening or what book I missed that would have explained it, which was not helped by the fact that one book might largely reimagine what had happened in previous books or use an established character with no regards to what they had done previously.

 

There are some gems since then I wouldn't worry too much about doing pre-reading for. I've always found the Heresy to be just effective enough at recapping what has come before to not need to follow plotlines all the way through. Character arcs tend to depend more on author anyway; Guilliman has an arc under Annandale, another arc under Abnett, and a bunch of nominally important sinew from other authors.

[bluntblade]

I do find myself wondering what to do with Magnus after Prospero instead of the Crimson King stuff. Perhaps have him commit properly, and that becomes key to flooding the Webway?

[bluntblade]

I think I'd make a real point of having some Astartes on both sides either rise from Battle-Brother, junior officer or Newborn status over the course of the conflict, ascending by dint of survival as his comrades are cut down around him.

[Bobss]

I do find myself wondering what to do with Magnus after Prospero instead of the Crimson King stuff. Perhaps have him commit properly, and that becomes key to flooding the Webway?

 

Magnus is in desperate need of a convincing turn first and foremost. Some would claim that Magnus' turn would be difficult to explain, but I see that as room to explore. I have no time or patience for the shards rubbish, even though I appreciate that some authors have handled the concept quite well, namely Chris Wraight and John French no surprises there. To me it will always be a cop-out. Imagine if ADB had lazily broken Lorgar's psyche into a pro-Emperor Lorgar and a pro-Chaos Gods Lorgar during his pilgrimage into the Eye of Terror or something, where the 'bad' Lorgar triumphs over the 'good' Lorgar. That's pap. While I try to avoid direct author bashing because it's rude and also a waste of time, the shoddy falls to darkness for Horus, Fulgrim, the Mechanicum (yes really) and Magnus can all be dumped on McNeill's doorstep. He even gave Mortarion a fair pummelling in Vengeful Spirit, mid-way through the far superior Scars-The Path of Heaven arc, and his defeatist Emperor in The Outcast Dead undermines ADB's Emperor in The Master of Mankind who is shoving everything but the kitchen sink into the Webway to rescue his sinking dream (I cry errytiem). But whatever

 

I want Magnus to lick his wounds, brood in his tower then commit to the Heresy fully. Maybe he wants to tear down his father's 'empire of lies' or sees the Emperor as a hypocritical figure ill-suited to leading humanity or something. It treads on Lorgar's toes slightly, but they both share a similar character arc anyway

Edited May 1, 2020 by Bobss