Advice on building a Sanguinary Guard spam list

[momerathe]

So, my brain has decided it’s a totally sane decision to start a new army right now. :)

 

I want to build something around Sanguinary Guard because I think they’re cool, and I saw some awesome paint jobs/conversions on a google image search. Also they seem to be good right now, so, yay ;)

 

The list I have sketched out currently is double battalion with 3x5 incursors for board control and early pressure. Then either 2x10 or 3x8 SG for happy fun times.

 

For character support, I’m thinking one squad with swords supported by an Ancient with Standard of Sacrifice and a Priest (warlord) with the Icon of the Angel. The idea here is to try to keep all of them in that magic 6”, which means the characters also have to make the charge and this is the best way of doing it that I can figure out. Even if it’s not super reliable.. :/

 

Second squad runs with axes and is supported by a Jump Libby with Unleash Rage. They get to use Descent of Angels as it doesn’t matter so much if the Libby makes it in after them.

 

Sound like viable battle plan?

 

Alternatively, how viable is a first turn On Wings Of Fire with a unit of SG? It seems like a nice way to punish a bad deployment, but they’ll be unsupported (so, axes) and as they’ll probably need Descent of Angels as well it’s a *bunch* of CP to be spending up front.

 

With all this and the other troops & hq I’ve got around 400 points left over for fire support. Should I be going for screen removal or anti-tank?

[Xenith]

Go with fists over axes or swords if you're building the army around them. Then you don't need the priest to buff strength.

 

BA are CP heavy, if you're already taking a priest and jump Libby and have spare points, maybe add a smash captain and put the sg in a vanguard detachment for an extra CP, or add 3*5 scouts and another 2 cheap characters for a second batallion.

 

Sanguard are already good at clearing screens with their boltguns and the shrapnel strat.

[SnorriSnorrison]

Sanguinary guard work best when around the warlord, so keep that in mind. Unless you want to run a chaplain with the other squad for re-rolls, they’ll be stuck around your Sanguinary Priest and therefore quite predictable. Yes, so is only 1 unit of SG, but that one only cost half the points. Also, they’re deceptively fragile even with 2 wounds and a 2+ armour save. The lack of a storm shield is often punishing when the counter attacks come in.

 

My advice for building a Sanguinary Guard Spam list is: don’t.

The more skewed your list is towards one specific unit/scheme the more you will lament when they get a points-increase, GW decides to bring out new models or the exact list you bought them for becomes unplayable by whatever means. I’d make a 10-men squad myself and magnetise some fists.

 

If you still want to move forward, I suppose you’ll need some long range heavy hitters. SG can put the hurt on a lot in the game, but their range starts at 12”. At that point you’ll find that they’re not efficient enough at clearing screens when deep striking and might wound tanks on a 4+, but will struggle against heavier targets of T8. Thunderhammers/Powerfists can serve you well on melee specialist units such as DC, VanVets or Terminators, but a lascannon or 6 won’t hurt, either.

[tychobi]

Sanguinary guard spam is great right now. The trick is to over load opponents with immediate threats. This means death co and forlorn fury as unignorable sacrificial lambs and loads of scouts. If you dont overload the enemy early you might not have room for good drop options later. Agression is key for melee and objective based play. Good luck!

[Majkhel]

Sanguinor also works good with SG if you have the points, as they need all the attacks they can get.

[momerathe]

Sanguinor also works good with SG if you have the points, as they need all the attacks they can get.

He costs as much as 4 guard on his lonesome though. Now admittedly he’s quite the beatstick in his own right..

[Xenith]

 

Sanguinor also works good with SG if you have the points, as they need all the attacks they can get.

He costs as much as 4 guard on his lonesome though. Now admittedly he’s quite the beatstick in his own right..

4 more guard get you 8 more attacks, sanguinor next to an full unit gets you 10 more attacks.

[Kram000]

I've argued with myself about priests over and over.  IMO they just don't hold their value,except in two specific cases.

 

For Death Company / Vanguard Veterans, taking a sword is one point less than an axe.  The priest's +1 S aura really makes a huge difference going from str 4 to 5 in wounding, but not actual damage dealt on AP0 single damage weapons (chainswords included).  This can be corrected by bringing power swords, bumping the AP to 3.  However, for one more point on the model you can take the axe with one less AP and built in +1S.  On a full DC that's 15 more points compared to what a priest (and jump pack) would cost for the +1S.

 

On sang guard, the axe is the same price as the fist upgrade, only one point more than the sword.  A 10 man with axes getting the wound of 2+ against T4 and wound of 3+ against S5-9 only costs 10 points.

 

As far as AP goes, I've thought about the AP2 axe and AP3 sword and I do not see an efficient conversion of unsaved damage by using the sword & priest instead of the axe.

 

The game doesn't usually leave wounded units running around, so the healing really shouldn't be a cornerstone of strategy IMO.

 

The two specific conditions I can see a priest being valuable are:

 

1.  Full 10 man (possibly two) of vanguard vets with storm shields.  Requires tons of fire to bring down, and the priest's resurrection might actually make a difference.

 

2.  Many units inside the +1S aura range.  For 'many' to fit the criteria, at least a combined total of 60-70 MODELS with attacks of S4 and AP greater than 0 (S4 AP-1 AP-2 or AP-3 and so on).  That pretty much leaves the only candidate to 4 full 15 man DC units all using power swords.  I'm not judgmental, but I haven't seen or heard of anyone fielding that type of formation.

 

For sang guard, we don't have the option of chainswords, so for 1 point I go axes all day long (sprinkle in some fists of course).  Don't bother with any other support than a warlord ancient with 5+ FNP banner.  In a similar comparison to the priest, this character and relic want to have as many eggs in that basket as possible for efficiency, so a full vanguard is optimum (3x10).

 

Sadly I agree with some of the others, they look much tougher than they actually are.  The banner doesn't even help that much once you unlock the higher degree of play required to truly utilize this army; we want to be spread all over the enemy's lines, not sitting within 6" of a flag.

 

Hope your opponent doesn't spam snipers and phobos captains, because the support is what makes these guys roll.

[Morticon]

Make sure to make one of the models in the big SG squad the WL -that way the squad  (and other SGs) will benefit from rerolls to hit always - without the need for character support. 
If you want master artisans, you can get it for a CP on another character. 

[Karhedron]

The Priest is rarely worth it for the +1S alone (although it can be a handy bonus).

 

Where he draws his value is from his healing/resurrection. If he gets to heal 2-3 times in the game, he will probably have amply made his points back. Healing SG or Terminators are good but healing other characters can actually be even more valuable. Given that we tend to run our melee units with several support characters, there is rarely a shortage of units for the Priest to patch-up.

[Panzer]

The current go-to competetive list for Blood Angels is basically Sanguinary Guard spam with 3x8 SG. It's difficult to play because whether you win or lose all depends on how you position your models, but if done right it's probably the strongest kind of list we can currently bring.

 

This is the kind of list Stephen Box brings to tournaments:

 

Battalion 1

Astorath

Lemartes

 

3x5 Incursors

 

1x10 Death Company with 4 Thunder Hammers and the rest with Chainswords

Sanguinary Ancient

Sanguinary Ancient

 

Battalion 2

Captain with Jump Pack, Stormshield, Thunderhammer (warlord)

The Sanguinor

 

3x5 Scouts

 

3x8 Sanguinary Guard with 2 Fists and the rest swords each

 

 

Important to note, that's his list from this years LVO in January. Ever since then he has adjusted his list. I'm not entirely sure about everything he changed but I know for a fact that he doesn't bring the Captain anymore (that's right, no Smash Captain) and I'm fairly sure that there's only one Battalion now, so less Troops as well. If I recall correctly there's Vanguard Veterans and a Sanguinary Priest somewhere in his new list too.

The Priest is rarely worth it for the +1S alone (although it can be a handy bonus).

Where he draws his value is from his healing/resurrection. If he gets to heal 2-3 times in the game, he will probably have amply made his points back. Healing SG or Terminators are good but healing other characters can actually be even more valuable. Given that we tend to run our melee units with several support characters, there is rarely a shortage of units for the Priest to patch-up.

 

I heavily disagree on that one. You don't take him for his healing/resurrection at all. The main reason you take him is indeed for the +1S aura. Bringing back 2 or 3 models doesn't make you win the game, but +1S makes your other units nearby so much more efficient.

Edited April 26, 2020 by Panzer

[momerathe]

The idea of making the SG themselves the warlord so they’re always within 6” of themselves is hilarious. Might be fun in a 1k game.

 

+1S is a 25% increase in wounds for swords vs T4. Not shabby (also swords look cool). Given I have to take 4 HQ anyway, may as well bring him along for the ride. He’s only really there to hold the Icon.

 

I tend to prefer more bodies to spending points on characters, but probably go too far on this so I do appreciate the suggestions.

[Karhedron]

The idea of making the SG themselves the warlord so they’re always within 6” of themselves is hilarious. Might be fun in a 1k game.

I regularly do this and it is great if you are running a single large squad. If you are running 3 mid-sized squads then it is less valuable because you still have the same issue with keeping multiple units in range of each other.

 

Regarding differences of opinions on the Priest, the good thing is that he brings both abilities and can make use of them both, regardless of which you feel is more valuable before the start of the game.

[ThatOneMarshal]

The idea of making the SG themselves the warlord so they’re always within 6” of themselves is hilarious. Might be fun in a 1k game.

 

+1S is a 25% increase in wounds for swords vs T4. Not shabby (also swords look cool). Given I have to take 4 HQ anyway, may as well bring him along for the ride. He’s only really there to hold the Icon.

 

I tend to prefer more bodies to spending points on characters, but probably go too far on this so I do appreciate the suggestions.

Personally I find it to make more sense than having the smash captain just because the smash captain is normally on a suicide mission every game. If he isn’t fighting imperial knights than why even bring him :D.

[The Unseen]

Never go axes, because a Priest+Swords is hyper efficient, or just get a fist and make sure you have rerolls to/hit from something.

 

I guess if you wanted to never give your SG any support at all axes might be the choice.

 

Though my favorite trick with them is making the Sanguinary Ancient with the SoS the warlord and a unit with all fists.

So he gives them full rerolls to hit, mitigating the to/hit penalty, a 5+++, and reroll 1s to wound in melee.

So hitting on 4s rerolling, and anything T7 or less is getting wounded on 2s rerolling 1s.

Even against knights its 3s to wound rerolling 1s.

It just kills everything

[Hintzy]

So he gives them full rerolls to hit, mitigating the to/hit penalty, a 5+++, and reroll 1s to wound in melee.

Unfortunately it's only rerolls of failed hits, so the -1 to hit is still relevant.

[momerathe]

Though my favorite trick with them is making the Sanguinary Ancient with the SoS the warlord and a unit with all fists.

So he gives them full rerolls to hit, mitigating the to/hit penalty, a 5+++, and reroll 1s to wound in melee.

 

Both key abilities are models within 6" though - how to do get the Ancient to make the charge along with the SG?

[Panzer]

 

Though my favorite trick with them is making the Sanguinary Ancient with the SoS the warlord and a unit with all fists.

So he gives them full rerolls to hit, mitigating the to/hit penalty, a 5+++, and reroll 1s to wound in melee.

 

Both key abilities are models within 6" though - how to do get the Ancient to make the charge along with the SG?

 

 

+2 on charge rolls and the following 6" pile-in from Canticles of Hate should easily take care of that.

[CCE1981]

Your forgetting a Chaplain with Jump Pack as your Warlord to support. Start him on the board with Canticle of Hate. On turn 2 use your Canticle and use “On Wings of Fire” to drop him with your Sanguinary Guard. He grant re-roll hits for being your warlord, give him the Icon of the Angel and he is giving tons of buffs alone. With all your Sanguinary Guard you have your anti-tank. A Librarian with Quickening and the “Angel’s Wing” helps a lot with denying Overwatch as well.

 

I took a Sanguinary Priest with jump pack to drop a few buffs, but needed a cheap-ish sixth HQ for the third Battalion.

Edited April 28, 2020 by CCE1981

[momerathe]

Your forgetting a Chaplain with Jump Pack as your Warlord to support. Start him on the board with Canticle of Hate. On turn 2 use your Canticle and use “On Wings of Fire” to drop him with your Sanguinary Guard. 

 

That answers the question I was just about to ask, thanks :)

 

I still balk a little at having three characters (priest, ancient and chaplain) to buff a single squad, but maybe I just need to get over it. Maybe drop the priest? 8 SG with re-rolls will wipe a squad of marines on the charge as it is..

[Panzer]

 

Your forgetting a Chaplain with Jump Pack as your Warlord to support. Start him on the board with Canticle of Hate. On turn 2 use your Canticle and use “On Wings of Fire” to drop him with your Sanguinary Guard. 

 

That answers the question I was just about to ask, thanks

 

I still balk a little at having three characters (priest, ancient and chaplain) to buff a single squad, but maybe I just need to get over it. Maybe drop the priest? 8 SG with re-rolls will wipe a squad of marines on the charge as it is..

 

 

No reason to buff just a single squad. It's all auras so you can buff multiple units at the same time. Stephen Box' tournament list with the 3x8 SG is designed to work pretty much like one big ball of death.

[Montoya]

 

 

Your forgetting a Chaplain with Jump Pack as your Warlord to support. Start him on the board with Canticle of Hate. On turn 2 use your Canticle and use “On Wings of Fire” to drop him with your Sanguinary Guard. 

 

That answers the question I was just about to ask, thanks

 

I still balk a little at having three characters (priest, ancient and chaplain) to buff a single squad, but maybe I just need to get over it. Maybe drop the priest? 8 SG with re-rolls will wipe a squad of marines on the charge as it is..

 

 

No reason to buff just a single squad. It's all auras so you can buff multiple units at the same time. Stephen Box' tournament list with the 3x8 SG is designed to work pretty much like one big ball of death.

 

 

For sure!  And his list is actually 3XSG plus a DC squad.  So those characters are actually buffing 4 squads.

 

If you want to see a great video of him Debriefing his list, how he uses it and play style check this out:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXao5rWK5Ws

[Panzer]

 

 

 

Your forgetting a Chaplain with Jump Pack as your Warlord to support. Start him on the board with Canticle of Hate. On turn 2 use your Canticle and use “On Wings of Fire” to drop him with your Sanguinary Guard. 

 

That answers the question I was just about to ask, thanks

 

I still balk a little at having three characters (priest, ancient and chaplain) to buff a single squad, but maybe I just need to get over it. Maybe drop the priest? 8 SG with re-rolls will wipe a squad of marines on the charge as it is..

 

 

No reason to buff just a single squad. It's all auras so you can buff multiple units at the same time. Stephen Box' tournament list with the 3x8 SG is designed to work pretty much like one big ball of death.

 

 

For sure!  And his list is actually 3XSG plus a DC squad.  So those characters are actually buffing 4 squads.

 

If you want to see a great video of him Debriefing his list, how he uses it and play style check this out:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXao5rWK5Ws

 

 

I already posted his January LVO list in this very thread. Don't worry I know how he plays it. He's also on the Blood Angels Discord. ;)

[Majkhel]

 

If you want to see a great video of him Debriefing his list, how he uses it and play style check this out:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXao5rWK5Ws

 

What is the relic Stephen is talking about in this video that allows to re-roll a dice?

[Panzer]

 

 

If you want to see a great video of him Debriefing his list, how he uses it and play style check this out:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXao5rWK5Ws

 

What is the relic Stephen is talking about in this video that allows to re-roll a dice?

 

You gotta be more specific. Which dice?