Playing catch-up from last fall

[Crovan]

Howdy, brothers.

 

After a pretty crazy half-year in real life, the current situation has given me time to return to the Praetoris Crusade.  I am ashamed to admit I have never actually fielded them in 8th edition.  Now, we have Faith and Fury and with it a bevy of new rules.  I've ready Marshal Laeroth's blog, watched some videos, and done some general reading, but for twenty years, the B&C is where I've come for advice.

 

I've slowly been building up Primaris reinforcements for the crusade.  A set of Shadowspear, intercessors, and even a cheap set of Aggressors I picked up.  Those I know are good.  My question is what of my old stuff can still be used if I'm hoping not to get consistently tabled?  I'm not trying to win any tournies (though there is one coming in late summer, social distancing permitting), just to have some well-fought games.

 

I know things like Vanguard Vets and the company vets I was busily magnetizing after Vigilus are still viable, as are our characters.  I know that Crusader Squads are what they've been for awhile (a bit overcosted), and there's debatable points about Scouts, Interceptors, and Incursors. Terminators have uses, but are a bit overcosted, still (noticing a trend, here).

 

I guess my biggest question is some of the vehicles that I don't see much in batreps or lists.  What about dreadnoughts?  Not Redemptor or Contemptor, but the old school kind.  I understand Chaplain dreads are (for now) still good, but is it silly to consider sprucing up my two ven dreads?  I understand Land Raiders of all stripes are kind of what they've been for a many editions (cool if overpriced and outmatched), but what about Rhino chassis vehicles?  I have a fair few magnetized to be preds, rhinos, or razorbacks, as well as a single Whirlwind (which is hilariously apparently good again after years of being...not).  Bikes?  I have half a dozen of those that I wanted to convert up for Company Vets and the Vigilus detachment before they got relegated to Legends.  I think there's even a Landspeeder kicking around magnetized for basically all the options except a Storm.

 

So, brothers, how much of the old collection should I bother bringing up to par to visit the tabletop in 2020?

Edited April 28, 2020 by Crovan

[MarshalMittermeier]

in general, in tier list guides that i've seen regarding the old collection:

-Land Raiders are awful like they almost always have been 

-most bikers are awful BUT sometimes useful for Brigade fillers. scout bikes are cool though.

-Predators are awful. i disagree on that, because they are cheap-ish platforms, but the general consensus is that they are awful. reason being, Repulsors/executioners are super awesome despite being more expensive.

-Rhinos are awful. in general, this is not the edition of transports. vehicle rules are pretty nice, but transport rules are not.(exception! drop pods)

-Crusader Squads are... it depends. cheap 5-man squads are now overshadowed by tacticals, and should never be taken, but i have heard of some combos with one 20-man blob being sped-up by doctrines and stratagems. (read my post on terminators about slow units and templars)I am not a fan, because i don't think it is killy enough, but i have heard it can work.

-Tacticals are ok. they have one job: cheaply fill slots for detachments, and they do it adequately. in some aspects Intercessors are better, but not necessarily enough, many people still use tacticals.

-Terminators are actualy ok. not top tier, but not silly, and definitely work better for templars than other chapters. (note that slow units like Terminators work better than expected for Black Templars due to The Emperor's Will and Righteous Zeal. for the same reason, your Agressors should also work well, and Assault Centurions are memed to be uber badass )

-Dreadnoughts are also generally OK(according to guides at least). the only problem is, Black Templars and other chapters that can speed-up units have such awesome synergy with the Invictor tactical warsuit that anything else is overshadowed.

-Scouts are, like, super awesome. best Troops choice. double that for black templars.

 

 

these are actualy not my opinions but generic thoughts from forums.

Edited April 28, 2020 by MarshalMittermeier

[Medjugorje]

maybe there are a few things you want to play?

 

In general Dreadknoughts are very good (the bigger the better - forget the small ones). Especially we can field them with 5+++ and one turn 4++ and our beloved Stratagem which half the damage.

[Acebaur]

I think LRC can work, but you have to make sure you buff them properly. I've found they have survivability when you give them the 4++ from the Aurellian Shroud and a 5+ FNP from Divine Protection. If you are going to go to that trouble though you should load them up with something worth it, like 5 Centurions and Grimaldus/Helbrecht

[Medjugorje]

yes. this would be a strong wall that killing all in their way. Like I said in another thread, I put a LRC into a tournament list and tested it against Imperial Fists and Iron Hands and it worked well. They meta lists are still stronger then our LRC list but you can play against them without a auto-loss.

 

btw... I forget the Stratagem does not half the damage anymore... its just -1 Dmg (which is still very good)

Edited April 28, 2020 by Medjugorje

[Crovan]

Thank you, brothers.  This is exactly the sort of thing I was looking for.  I'm well accustomed to the BT being behind the meta-curve, but I just want to make sure I'm working toward a list that isn't just going to get dumpstered by everything.  I found an old FW Dark Angel dread torso that I may start making into a Chaplain Dread.  Seems like a very strong unit (for now), feels Templary, and holefully will look awesome.

[MarshalMittermeier]

Thank you, brothers.  This is exactly the sort of thing I was looking for.  I'm well accustomed to the BT being behind the meta-curve, but I just want to make sure I'm working toward a list that isn't just going to get dumpstered by everything.  I found an old FW Dark Angel dread torso that I may start making into a Chaplain Dread.  Seems like a very strong unit (for now), feels Templary, and holefully will look awesome.

 

some encouraging words: 

In general, every 40k edition has some sort of "gimmick" that one should use when writing their armylists-its all about maximising the rules that are good.

 

in 4th, it was footslogging to avoid the horrible(worse than now!MUCH WORSE! unless you were eldar that got to break the rules of vehicles, but thats another story) transport rules and also take advantage of old cover rules. in 5th, it was massed transports spam to abuse its vehicle rules. in 6th, it was flyers. Despite what several whiners (in many forums) proclaim about "horrible 40k balance", most competitive bloggers agree: as long as you keep applying some core principles in your list (duality, redundancy, etc) and stay true to the generic meta of the edition, your codex has far less importance than one thinks. (for example, because of the agressive nature of most 40k good lists with either massed shooting or alpha striking /quick cc, rolling for who goes first/second depending on the mission is far more important, the story of 'worse list, but got off the alpha strike first and crippled pivotal part of enemy army, game almost ended right there' is so common. and thats ignoring tactics in general)

Edited April 29, 2020 by MarshalMittermeier