40k'ing up the Guard

[jaxom]

The new Catachan colonel model got me wondering. The "classic" Guard range was very much based on historical and pop-historical examples. What would you do to make a revamped Astra Militarum range more sci-fi, 40k feeling instead of just Rambo-In-Space, Laurence of Arabia-In-Space, Red Army-In-Space, Cossacks-In-Space, etc?

[Zephaniah Adriyen]

The new Catachan colonel model got me wondering. The "classic" Guard range was very much based on historical and pop-historical examples. What would you do to make a revamped Astra Militarum range more sci-fi, 40k feeling instead of just Rambo-In-Space, Laurence of Arabia-In-Space, Red Army-In-Space, Cossacks-In-Space, etc?

Militarum Tempestus.

 

That is all.

[Warhead01]

In PA TGG there is a picture of a guardsmen, art work, that I feel if made into miniatures would be a winner. It's on page 68 or 69 if I remember. 
I'm a fan of the INQ 28 look for all things Imperial and would want models in that theme myself. Partly the inspiration for the project I am currently working on. 
If GW had gotten there first I'd have had a difficult time not giving them my money. 

Edited April 28, 2020 by Warhead01

[HallofStovokor]

Part of the imperial guard's charm is that they're ordinary men and women who face off against demons and cthulu looking aliens, using technology barely more advanced than what we have available today. I totally understand where you're coming from, but I hope you can understand why a lot of people don't want them looking super advanced.

[duz_]

 

Militarum Tempestus.

 

That is all.

 

 

Care to elaborate more for the benefit of everyone else Zeph

 

5 word answers aren't the most constructive

[WarriorFish]

Elysians had a good sci-fi look to them, Solar Auxilia too - but both retaining enough 40k about them. If I were to make a more sci-fi army I'd probably go back to some of the earlier Guard stuff. There's some classic artwork of troopers from 2nd that has some solid sci-fi to it without any obvious historical reference, though I can't seem to find them in a quick search

[MedicMike0708]

I loved how earlier codices included illustrated ranges of what guardsmen from various worlds would look like, they are really one of the most diverse possible ranges in terms of head-canon because the requirement is basically 28-30mm scale miniature, must have lasgun, autogun or local equivalent. That’s it, the rest about their home world and unique foibles you can fill in yourself.

 

Sadly in an effort to protect their IP and due to limited production capacity (pretty sure the new sprue mould system has a primaris sized ultramar omega symbol on the side of it) they gradually phased out the diversified artwork and sections of the codices to only focus on miniatures they produced, or once produced (except for horses, only cyber-steeds-from-Mars allowed now Sorry rough riders). But I hope with custom regiment traits popping back up in PA, we might see a renaissance style revival of more diverse guardsmen.

[Lucerne]

I'd make Elysians the new default.

[Zephaniah Adriyen]

 

 

Militarum Tempestus.

 

That is all.

 

 

Care to elaborate more for the benefit of everyone else Zeph

 

5 word answers aren't the most constructive

 

My point would be that the Militarum Tempestus are what happens when you take the Astra Militarum and jack them up to sci-fi. The appeal of the Imperial Guard as a whole is that they're effectively just a normal, real-world military, normal humans in a galaxy where the armies you see on the tabletop most are seven-foot tall supersoldiers. The Militarum Tempestus are what occurs when you give normal humans the training, equipment and resources to be another sci-fi army.

[Azekai]

The galaxy is huge. The troops in the guard vary substantially- some are drawn from stone-age death worlds; others are void-born that populate seething orbital hive stations. There isn't a 'more 40k' look.

However, if you want a more hard-edge sci-fi feel to your guard, go for Solar Auxilia, but there isn't some high-tech standard to which the Imperial guardsman adhere.
Alternatively, you can kit-bash Cadians with any of the more high-tech looking bits available from independent bits makers.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Azekai

[Inso]

I'd take the modern military approach and add better armour, helmet sensor equipment and more advanced weapons... but then they wouldn't really be my vision of Imperial Guard... for that, I agree with HallofStovokor: "Part of the imperial guard's charm is that they're ordinary men and women who face off against demons and cthulu looking aliens, using technology barely more advanced than what we have available today. I totally understand where you're coming from, but I hope you can understand why a lot of people don't want them looking super advanced."

Edited April 28, 2020 by Inso

[holydiver]

I think just the mix-and-match fantasy and sci-fi would make everyone happy.  They just need to make sure all the humanoid Sigmar, 40K, Mordheim, and Necromunda kits line up.  Pretty sure that's the way it was and everybody liked it.  I hope they get back to that whenever they get around to redoing Cadians and Catachans.  Would make an upgrade sprue very doable as many have suggested.  I think Necromunda is made to be interchangeable already?

[Lord Marshal]

Unpopular opinion though it may be, but I'm perfectly happy with Cadians. You can't and won't please everybody and having the 'Average Baseline' for what is the 'Average Joe' faction seems appropriate to me. Does that mean I wouldn't apply advanced psychological techniques on GW execs to 'encourage' them to release kits for other regiment/aesthetic types? Of course not, if we can have separate kits for Blood Angel muscle-and-nipple Tacticals we can have Greatcoats/Dress Blues/whatever. That doesn't mean I think that would ever happen but hey.

 

I'm bias in part because what got me into 40k in the first place was seeing the Codex: Cityfight art (of the urban camo Cadians) as part of a Playstation magazine ad covering Fire Warrior. By sheer coincidence I wandered into a Games Workshop on the week of the big plastic Cadian release in 3rd and was instantly in love with the Cadian Shock Troop box art.

 

When we've got Space!Orcs and Space!Elves running around I don't think Space!RedArmy and Space!LawrenceOfArabia is too much.

 

Militarum Tempestus.

 

That is all.

Personally I dislike the new Scion Storm Trooper models. They're not sci-fi enough, but they're not gothic enough either and they just lack a certain character to me, which may sound a bit ironic but there's a charm to the 'Average Infantryman' that's inevitably lost on the Scion kit being more tooled up. The Solar Auxilia do a better job of hitting that balance of sci-fi trooper with (again) gothic, vaguely steampunkish vibes.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Lord Marshal

[MedicMike0708]

Just further to my points earlier, here are some of the things that were featured in the third edition IG codex, please forgive the poor photo quality of my potato cam




So many choices and ideas, some are more hard scifi others are cowboy with lasgun.

[Cap'm Heckus]

I’d just make sprues with alternate heads and kit. So much can be done with those Cadian bodies. I also sell them in standard boxes of 20 again.. I’d also make 20 man squads as a rules option and multiple special weapons. Bring Taurus venators our in plastic.

Edited May 1, 2020 by Cap'm Heckus

[MedicMike0708]

While I agree with the tauros in plastic, why stop there? Genestealer cult got so many useful looking vehicles (which should be repurposed to loyalist to serve the god emperor of mankind and his forces, please don’t blam me sir commissar sir for wanting something to replace my rough-rider horses)

[Lord Marshal]

While I agree with the tauros in plastic, why stop there? Genestealer cult got so many useful looking vehicles (which should be repurposed to loyalist to serve the god emperor of mankind and his forces, please don’t blam me sir commissar sir for wanting something to replace my rough-rider horses)

I'd rather see Guard get unique, military-grade vehicles personally. Let GSC keep their civilian aesthetic.

 

Part of me is upset that Atalan Jackals likely mean we won't see biker rough riders who don't look absurd, but I would love to see the Tauros in plastic.

[jaxom]

Part of the imperial guard's charm is that they're ordinary men and women who face off against demons and cthulu looking aliens, using technology barely more advanced than what we have available today. I totally understand where you're coming from, but I hope you can understand why a lot of people don't want them looking super advanced.

 

I completely agree, which is why I thought this was such an interesting topic. I struggled with anything beyond "More aquilas! More winged skulls!" but was curious if anyone had been thinking about this issue and felt they had an elegant solution.

[duz_]

The new Catachan colonel model got me wondering. The "classic" Guard range was very much based on historical and pop-historical examples. What would you do to make a revamped Astra Militarum range more sci-fi, 40k feeling instead of just Rambo-In-Space, Laurence of Arabia-In-Space, Red Army-In-Space, Cossacks-In-Space, etc?

I feel like the Necromunda range managed to figure out that balance

I wonder how you could extrapolate out some of those gangs to be a bit more cohesive enough to be legit regiments

[War Angel]

I love the cadians, they’re basic enough that they can be used for a multitude of different planets, but with enough character that they don’t need to be modified to be a thing.

[Karack Blackstone]

Gaurd: Lasgun, Laspistol for basic Troopers.

 

Cadians: Near-fi WW2 early 80's 'fantasy' sci-fi army.

 

Anyone else with the first line: WH40K Guard, just wearing a different uniform.

 

GW seriously could make bank if they'd just realize that a single Lasgun kit for any given model and suddenly the entire range of Humans from all their games, WH40K, WH30K, Age of Sigmar, and Lord of the Rings, compatible with all base model kits, just with a proper arm swap per base type, and suddenly, blamo. The entire range of Worlds the Imperium is able to muster a Guard Regiment from is able to be represented.

 

I seriously think the problem with GW is the lack of alternate options to Cadians and Catachan in plastic.

 

All these 3rd party bits sites would either be out of business or in need of a GW stamp of approval to be used to a set amount on each model in a force. Say 50% GW, up to 50% approved 3rd party bits. Could prove fun for conversions. And, amazing to see!

 

Anyway, more pipe dreams.

[Warhead01]

I was thinking I wish that there was an updated model of the 1st edition Imperial Guardsmen model. The uniform was more or less fine given the limitations at the time.  Imagine that as tropical, arctic and non-extreme temperature/condition uniforms. And a sprinkle of Gw zazz. 
I kinda remember those old mini's as a kind of flack jacket and a helmet over some clothing and maybe some knee and elbow pads. Just the slightest tweek would bring up up to modern. I think a full face shield option where the old helmets were open faced and some extra kit, holsters, pouches and a fighting knife. It's very much like the Cadian mini I know but to me seemed in a way wider. Not physically but in appearance the "flack armour" meeting the end of the shoulders vs the cadian flack more like a current modern flack jacket. leaving the shoulders exposed. 
But I like the idea of keeping it simple and those old guardsmen were very minimalist. Which for Guard is the point. Loads of soldiers outfitted to fight at a cost the Imperium can afford in mass.

[Inso]

I was thinking I wish that there was an updated model of the 1st edition Imperial Guardsmen model. The uniform was more or less fine given the limitations at the time.  Imagine that as tropical, arctic and non-extreme temperature/condition uniforms. And a sprinkle of Gw zazz. 

I kinda remember those old mini's as a kind of flack jacket and a helmet over some clothing and maybe some knee and elbow pads. Just the slightest tweek would bring up up to modern. I think a full face shield option where the old helmets were open faced and some extra kit, holsters, pouches and a fighting knife. It's very much like the Cadian mini I know but to me seemed in a way wider. Not physically but in appearance the "flack armour" meeting the end of the shoulders vs the cadian flack more like a current modern flack jacket. leaving the shoulders exposed. 

But I like the idea of keeping it simple and those old guardsmen were very minimalist. Which for Guard is the point. Loads of soldiers outfitted to fight at a cost the Imperium can afford in mass.

 

The original IG helmets were Beakie Space Marine helmets, with the beak left off :) ... so a full faced version of the IG helmet would be a Beakie helmet :)  (although there were a couple of versions with a cloth-type mask).

 

I like the 'extended over the shoulders' flak-jacket idea, rather than stopping at the shoulders... a bit like the Elysian Drop Troopers have (not necessarily part of the jacket).

[Warhead01]

 

I was thinking I wish that there was an updated model of the 1st edition Imperial Guardsmen model. The uniform was more or less fine given the limitations at the time.  Imagine that as tropical, arctic and non-extreme temperature/condition uniforms. And a sprinkle of Gw zazz. 

I kinda remember those old mini's as a kind of flack jacket and a helmet over some clothing and maybe some knee and elbow pads. Just the slightest tweek would bring up up to modern. I think a full face shield option where the old helmets were open faced and some extra kit, holsters, pouches and a fighting knife. It's very much like the Cadian mini I know but to me seemed in a way wider. Not physically but in appearance the "flack armour" meeting the end of the shoulders vs the cadian flack more like a current modern flack jacket. leaving the shoulders exposed. 

But I like the idea of keeping it simple and those old guardsmen were very minimalist. Which for Guard is the point. Loads of soldiers outfitted to fight at a cost the Imperium can afford in mass.

 

The original IG helmets were Beakie Space Marine helmets, with the beak left off ... so a full faced version of the IG helmet would be a Beakie helmet   (although there were a couple of versions with a cloth-type mask).

 

I like the 'extended over the shoulders' flak-jacket idea, rather than stopping at the shoulders... a bit like the Elysian Drop Troopers have (not necessarily part of the jacket).

 

Sadly what I recall is a jumble and I probably could have googled for images.. 

I do recall thinking how similar the Eiysian uniform looks to those old uniforms. 

There's a 3rd party line that's fairly similar, fields of Death Atlantic Wargames. It would be tempting to get some and mess around with those now that I am doing a little with green stuff. 

Too much work. 

For the most part I like this more than the modern Cadian uniform.  I'd add a groin protector , front and back and maybe change the boots a little. 

Another thing I like it is that to me the og uniform looks like they were issued a set of coveralls and not a top and bottom.  

Almost. I'm just uniform picky. 

 

Can't find the picture I keep mentioning. 

 

[Myrmidon]

Some of the old artwork from Jes Goodwin is quite distinctive, being at the same time enough technological for a sci-fi setting but "gothic" enough for the special snowflake of WH40k (something I agree, the actual available range is quite lacking):

 

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-pFRjrQiYqgs/UMs5sioQdMI/AAAAAAAAPR4/59WGErf8ld0/s1600/jes2173ck2.jpg