Aggressors double shot

[TempestBlade]

So I think I know the answer but I want to double check. If I have some Aggressors that move and use a chaplains Stoic Prosecution on them can they fire twice due to their Fire Storm ability? Part of me says yes since SP says they are treated as stationary but the “does not move” part throws it into arguable domain. How has everyone been playing it?

[Angel of Solitude]

For Fire Storm, I don't think there is any issue:

 

Stoic Prosecution:  "...models in this unit can shoot with ranged weapons as if their unit had remained stationary."

 

Fire Storm: "Models in this unit can fire twice if they remained stationary during their turn (including when firing Overwatch)."

 

Both reference the "remained stationary" condition.

 

Compare this with Grim Resolve:  "You can reroll all hit rolls of 1...so long as it did not move in its prior Movement phase."

 

Likewise, Heavy Weapons from the BRB: "If a model with a Heavy Weapon moved in its preceding Movement phase, you must subtract 1 from any hit rolls..."

 

I've known people to suggest that this difference in wording means that Stoic Prosecution doesn't apply. Personally, I think that if you take this view (rules as written, and not rules as intended), then you massively restrict the benefit this litany brings, to the point it becomes useless. I personally play it that it affects any penalty caused from moving a model in the prior movement phase.

[G8Keeper]

For Fire Storm, I don't think there is any issue:

 

Stoic Prosecution:  "...models in this unit can shoot with ranged weapons as if their unit had remained stationary."

 

Fire Storm: "Models in this unit can fire twice if they remained stationary during their turn (including when firing Overwatch)."

 

Both reference the "remained stationary" condition.

 

Compare this with Grim Resolve:  "You can reroll all hit rolls of 1...so long as it did not move in its prior Movement phase."

 

Likewise, Heavy Weapons from the BRB: "If a model with a Heavy Weapon moved in its preceding Movement phase, you must subtract 1 from any hit rolls..."

 

I've known people to suggest that this difference in wording means that Stoic Prosecution doesn't apply. Personally, I think that if you take this view (rules as written, and not rules as intended), then you massively restrict the benefit this litany brings, to the point it becomes useless. I personally play it that it affects any penalty caused from moving a model in the prior movement phase.

 

I'd interpret it exactly as this too.  I'd go further and say most TO's would interpret it so as well, allowing you to move and shoot Heavy weapons without the -1 too.

[TempestBlade]

That is correct but when I was looking at the newest FAQ they change the fire storm to

 

Page 105 – Aggressor Squad, Fire Storm

Change this ability to read:

‘When this unit fires Overwatch or is chosen to shoot with, models in this unit can shoot twice if this unit did not move this turn.’

 

Does this invalidates the stoic prosecution? I’m leaning, unfortunately, to yes since it says “does not move”. Thoughts?

[Angel of Solitude]

That FAQ change appears to align the Dark Angel Aggressor entry to the updated one in the new Space Marines codex. Not sure why they felt the need to change the wording, but I’d confidently say it’s unrelated to Stoic Prosecution.

 

In either case, I’d still take the position that “remain stationary” is the same as “did not move”, and thus Stoic Prosecution applies in all the instances that we expect it to.

 

If it doesn’t, then I’d expect GW to add a clarification to the Ritual of the Damned errata...which they have yet to do.

[TempestBlade]

Awesome. I’m glad to hear it because I’m currently painting 6 bolter aggressors lol.

[Angel of Solitude]

Aye...me too ;)

[Darmor]

That FAQ change appears to align the Dark Angel Aggressor entry to the updated one in the new Space Marines codex. Not sure why they felt the need to change the wording, but I’d confidently say it’s unrelated to Stoic Prosecution.

Old wording enabled double-tapping only if Aggressors did not move in their movement phase. Which means no Double Shot Overwatch if you moved on your turn. Now it's changed to "did not move in predecessing movement phase", which means to us guaranteed Double Overwatch if your opponent did not forced you to a movement in his movement phase. I can't remember exactly, but AFAIK, we don't have such mechanics in game yet.

Still, I also think our Litany affects Double Fire on Aggressors (and therefore jump on your train of Aggressor-building).

[eternal_warrior12]

I have three painted and three more on the way as soon as the apocalypse abates. 6 (with the litany) put out two full dice cubes of dice for the storm. 21” range on the first turn and an added lieutenant will wipe or seriously hurt most targets through sheer weight of fire. Good times!!!

[TempestBlade]

Oh man are we mini unnerfed IH then? Chaplain in the middle with 2 or 3 squads of intercessors with the stalker boltguns marching up the field with reroll 1s. Add Azrael for a 4++ and full rerolls or sprinkle in Apothecary/ancient to taste. Rise of the Greenwing maybe.

[eternal_warrior12]

That’s kind of the list I’m building. More than a couple Salamanders in my meta so this is a hard counter to them and an easy counter to everyone less survivable.

[shabbadoo]

Angel of Solitude's explanation is solid. Always nice to see rules wording actually coincide.