BA CP Use and Anecdotes Late 8th Ed

[The Unseen]

I just use a brigade...

And I still run out turn 2 usually

[Klazien]

I just use a brigade...

And I still run out turn 2 usually

I second the humble Brigade. I've found it move my list building a bit towards being balance with combat doctrines. The biggest advantage I find is that it only requires 3 HQs. Having to find only 3 Characters to use helps a ton with CP management (as 2 slams can easily eat 10 cp in 2 turns) and makes building to minimize ITC secondary easier. Just my thoughts on how I manage CP between all of our Great Stratagems I usually try to have a 1-2 left after turn 3 to use a game changers roll.

[Majkhel]

What FA and Heavy choice are you using for a Brigade?

I find that filling those slots is limiting for me, but perhaps this is just because of units available for me. For FA those are Inceptors (not that cheap) or Scout bikes (cheap, but I only have one unit, so they are a typical filling unit. For Heavy, I usually take Eliminators and a Whirlwind, so - cheap fillings.

[redshadow]

Suppressors are good for fast attack, there really useful

[Panzer]

My biggest problem with Brigade or Double Battalion in a Primaris list is that you are going to spend ~600-900p in Troops before you get to the interesting and even more expensive units. Especially when you try to fit in a Repulsor or two you find yourself quickly running out of points for fancy stuff. Edited May 6, 2020 by Panzer

[Karhedron]

What FA and Heavy choice are you using for a Brigade?

An Attack Bike is a pretty easy FA choice. 37 points for the Heavy Bolter version means you can fill the FA slots for just over 100 points without resorting to FW. Are they a powerhouse unit? Probably not but if you keep them safe early on they can chase objectives late game and plink wounds off weakened units.

[Klazien]

What FA and Heavy choice are you using for a Brigade?

 

I find that filling those slots is limiting for me, but perhaps this is just because of units available for me. For FA those are Inceptors (not that cheap) or Scout bikes (cheap, but I only have one unit, so they are a typical filling unit. For Heavy, I usually take Eliminators and a Whirlwind, so - cheap fillings.

Well for Heavy Support it been 3 Eliminateors. Tried mixing whirlwinds but just not enough damage. Eliminateors are really good and cheap at 9 for 216. Fast attack is hard to find something that works. An Attack bikes and normal bike squads are what I ended up using. Attack bikes just hide out of line of sight mostly but 3 bikes are ok in tactical doctrine for a bit of screen clearing or chip. The HS pay for themselves and the FA are the tax for 3 cp I find.

Edited May 6, 2020 by Klazien

[DistractionTacMarine]

Tarantula Sentry guns are an interesting FA pick. Make good objective holders as the opponent is unlikely to want to spend firepower against them. Not as useful overall as Attack Bikes and the same points cost, but can be situationally useful in some lists.

[The Unseen]

I run a largish unit of scout bikers for horde clearance and screens for a smash captain, and 2 mm equipped attack bikes, who have become known to my local group as the bane of eldar flyers, isolated infantry squads, and tanks near LOS blocking terrain.

 

Even if the mm never hits, the threat is worth it. Plus a T5 3+ save thing that moves 14" a turn or 21" if it advances is no joke. One of the last games I played before Covid happened a Tzaangor unit of 20+ charged an attack bike that was screening my rapier mortars from just such a thing.

He managed to survive 3 rounds of combat with the unit, and killed like 6 or 7 of them to boot thanks to some poor rolling on my opponents part and a number of good saving throws.

 

And watching a 49 pt model chase and lock down a lemon russ for several turns is hilarious for you, and very frustrating for the opponent.

[Vermintide]

My biggest problem with Brigade or Double Battalion in a Primaris list is that you are going to spend ~600-900p in Troops before you get to the interesting and even more expensive units. Especially when you try to fit in a Repulsor or two you find yourself quickly running out of points for fancy stuff.

Precisely. I get that the purpose of this whole system was to incentivise troops, and balance out armies instead of them just entirely consisting of elites and heavies.

 

But when you're taking 6+ troop squads, and assuming they're anything but barebone scouts that will all die in the first turn, that's a lot for a marine army. It just swings things to the opposite end of the scale. The army feels unbalanced because it's mainly just meat shields, with only a handful of units doing all the heavy lifting.

Edited May 7, 2020 by Vermintide

[Karhedron]

The army feels unbalanced because it's mainly just meat shields, with only a handful of units doing all the heavy lifting.

Perhaps the question then becomes about how to leverage your Troop units rather than just regarding them as a tax. To some extent it depends on the missions that you play. The new CA19 missions focus a lot on holding objectives which means durable Troops units are an advantage.

 

Playing games that focus on killing the opponent naturally skews the balance in favour of Elites and Heavies but a mission with objectives and plenty of terrain gives Troops to scope to shine.

[Vermintide]

Oh yeah I'm aware that the rules currently do a good job of making troops practical and useful, often game winners.

 

But that's boring, I want things that kill things. I always have a solid core of troops because I don't like the way an army looks, thematically, without that, but I thinkneeding 6 minimum is too much.

 

In my head, I like a 2:1 of light and heavy infantry, such as Hellblasters. The dual battalion thing makes that unwieldy and I'm not a fan.

[Panzer]

 

The army feels unbalanced because it's mainly just meat shields, with only a handful of units doing all the heavy lifting.

Perhaps the question then becomes about how to leverage your Troop units rather than just regarding them as a tax. To some extent it depends on the missions that you play. The new CA19 missions focus a lot on holding objectives which means durable Troops units are an advantage.

 

Playing games that focus on killing the opponent naturally skews the balance in favour of Elites and Heavies but a mission with objectives and plenty of terrain gives Troops to scope to shine.

 

 

The problem is that missions that favour holding objectives also favour mobility which, once again, is found with our Elites and Fast Attacks. Troops can be useful and frankly do a better job at it than in previous editions, but you can't focus too much on them while still being competetive because we NEED our Elites/Fast Attacks/Heavy Supports and they are quite expensive since we aren't a horde army.

Edited May 7, 2020 by Panzer

[SamaNagol]

Leveraging your troops units is something that armies with more efficient troops do.

 

We pay Scout tax and hit things whilst moving really fast.

[Majkhel]

I disagree. In my opinion a tax approach is limiting. Precisely because our Troops are not as efficient on paper as other armies (meaning they are not cheap for the numbers they provide us with), we should maximise what we are getting from them. 

They can and should form a mobile barrier to gain ground, screen our characters, eat overwatch, score objectives when overlooked and generally be a nuisance. I also believe they should not die to a man without good cause as often a number of killed units is a points score factor. I had a number of games where a lone surviving scout outside line of sight was a good thing to have when last turn rolled in.
 
Our Troops all hit better in CC than with other marines' factions for the same price. 3 out of 5 can Infiltrate and reliably charge T1 if necessary. I'd say they are pretty efficient in our area of specialisation and among Astartes in general. Although Scouts are great, they die too easily so I believe it is good that we have alternatives.