Biting the Primaris bullet

[ServoBadger]

So, I'm finally going to add some Primaris to my Deathwatch (my friend who objects to Primaris no longer really plays at all, and six squads of veterans feels like enough).

 

Are auto bolt rifles the go-to choice for Intercessors now, or is it still worth taking the other versions?

 

I'm thinking of getting a box each of Intercessors, Hellblasters, Aggressors and Inceptors to make a couple of Fortis kill teams.

 

Anything else I should really be looking at right away?

 

Thanks for any insight!

[Chris521]

I've recently purchased some Primaris Marines and there were a few Kill teams that I am going to build for.

 

Assault Kill team:

5 Intercessors-Auto bolt rifles

4 Aggressors-bolt storm

1 Inceptor-Assault bolter

 

Long range Kill Team

5 Intercessor-Stalker bolt rifle

4 Hell blaster- Heavy Plasma

1 Aggressor-Assault bolter

 

HellBlaster Ablative wounds:

5 Intercessor-Bolt rifle

5 HellBlaster-Plasma Incinerator

 

The first one gives the squad T5 and is the one that commonly pops up in the small amount of Deathwatch competitive lists right now. 

 

The second just hangs around backfield objectives, though I think the heavy Plasma incinerator needs a buff to be worthwhile (+1 damage I think).  Aggressor lets them move and shoot.  

 

The third is just a way to keep your Hell Blasters alive.  This is the combo that was discovered approximately 3.2 seconds after the Codex was released.

[Qui-Gon]

The matter of which bolt rifle version to use has undergone an evolution since the codex first released.

 

Initially, the auto bolt rifle and stalker bolt rifles were inferior to the standard bolt rifle, which seemed custom tailored to optimize the full benefits of all SIA, and since the auto bolt rifle only had 2 shots at this time and was more expensive, its only purpose was existing alongside aggressors, but still did not have the same punch as the normal bolt rifle.

 

Fast-forward to August 2019 and the release of Space Marines 2.0, where they improved the profiles of the auto bolt rifle and stalker bolt rifles considerably. At this time, the standard bolt rifle kind of took a hit, as the auto bolt rifle now outperformed with its third shot, and the stalker could do legitimate damage now with a profile of 2+ to wound, ap -2, D2.   At this time, at least for me, standard bolt rifles became the purview of hellblaster bodies exclusively.

 

Now, with the release of the Deathwatch "Psychic Awakening" from White Dwarf (excuse me for a moment    ) standard bolt rifles have been given a new lease on life with the Rapid Fire stratagem, enabling sheer insanity with 4 shots a dude in Tactical Doctrine enabling hellfire shots, or just stick to vengence rounds for sheer ap nonsense. Auto bolt rifles still serve a purpose with aggressor squads for mobile firepower, and stalkers have become absolutely terrifying with Target Sighted.

 

In summary, each bolt rifle now has a very solid reason to take each of them. Build your units around your intercessors and their bolt rifles and you won't go wrong.

 

Moving on from that...

 

There are a couple of terms you'll see thrown around the community.

 

Intergressor squad / goon squad / bully squad
Interblaster squad

 

In the case of the former trio, Chris521 broke it down in his Assault kill team. Its mobile. Its tough as nails. It has wound eating shenanegains. It can do a lot for so little, and is effective in melee and shooting.

 

In the case of the later, Chris521 also broke it down in the "Ablative wound team". Inceptor is also a valid option, to prevent the squad from being tied up in melee and being unable to keep shooting those lovely plasma incinerators.

Also @Chris521 GW spoiled that unit with their Primaris Kill Team WHC article that they put out teasing the Deathwatch codex. So the combo was known before the codex dropped. 

 

My advice:

1) Hellblasters, Aggressors, Inceptors, and Intercessors all have a purpose and are tried and tested by many in the community. 

2) Stay the hell away from Reivers. They break up squad synergies and add nothing to the unit offensively or defensively. If you take them as a yolo unit unto themselves, you do you, but I will never include a Reiver in a Fortis team.

3) If you want cheap anti tank, look into Mortis Contemptor Dreadnoughts.

[Mr4Minutes]

Qui-Gon and Chris521 are bang on.

 

After the marine2.0 dex I’ve used the different bolt rifle profiles as they indicated to great effect.

 

My only difference is my long range squad is 9 stalker bolt rifle Intercessors and one flame storm aggressor. Personally I think the long range hellblaster plasma gun is too many points for its damage output.

 

I take the flamer aggressor because he’s 2 points cheaper then the bolt version and I’m usually firing over 18”, so he’s out of range anyway. He’s used so the squad can shoot without penalty after moving. Then once they’re set up he’s ablative wounds and a small anti charge deterrent.

[Paulinus]

Qui-Gon and Chris521 are bang on.

After the marine2.0 dex I’ve used the different bolt rifle profiles as they indicated to great effect.

My only difference is my long range squad is 9 stalker bolt rifle Intercessors and one flame storm aggressor. Personally I think the long range hellblaster plasma gun is too many points for its damage output.

I take the flamer aggressor because he’s 2 points cheaper then the bolt version and I’m usually firing over 18”, so he’s out of range anyway. He’s used so the squad can shoot without penalty after moving. Then once they’re set up he’s ablative wounds and a small anti charge deterrent.

That’s exactly how I built my stalker squad. And for the same reason.

[ServoBadger]

Thanks for all the advice, sorry I didn't respond more quickly.

 

I had thought that the auto bolt rifle was the way to go because regardless of the doctrine you never lose any of the benefits of SIA, and you never need to fall back to standard ammo to get your maximum number of shots, but its clearly a lot more complicated!

 

Since all my Imperial Fists have standard bolt rifles I think I will build the first five with the auto bolt rifles for variety and hold back on building the next lot.

 

I appreciate the squad mix suggestions, I was struggling to see the benefit of Reivers so I'm glad I'm not the only one!

 

When it comes to Hellblasters, is it ever worth running the assault plasma incinerator?

[Qui-Gon]

Thanks for all the advice, sorry I didn't respond more quickly.

 

I had thought that the auto bolt rifle was the way to go because regardless of the doctrine you never lose any of the benefits of SIA, and you never need to fall back to standard ammo to get your maximum number of shots, but its clearly a lot more complicated!

 

Since all my Imperial Fists have standard bolt rifles I think I will build the first five with the auto bolt rifles for variety and hold back on building the next lot.

 

I appreciate the squad mix suggestions, I was struggling to see the benefit of Reivers so I'm glad I'm not the only one!

 

When it comes to Hellblasters, is it ever worth running the assault plasma incinerator?

 

RE: maximum number of shots; Bolter Discipline is a thing, but between the beacon angelis and the ability for Deathwatch to drop a squad of bolt rifles with a teleportarium anywhere, maximizing the firepower isn't an issue. It is only an issue if you don't account for it and leave a squad of normal bolt rifles standing around somewhere without something to shoot at.

 

RE: hellblasters & assault plasma; several things immediately turn me off on these:

1) Part of the reason you take them is to advance and still shoot at the 24" for 30+d6" threat range. Considering that a normal move + rapid fire range for the normal plasma is 21", you are attempting to compensate for the range. However, if you see my above point concerning optimizing firepower, then that's hardly an issue unless you've done something dramatically wrong. However, this is all for naught for the following reasons.

2) If you are advancing with them, the inherent -1 for advancing means you pop on 2s and only hit on 4s. To not do that you take an aggressor in the unit. But then you're starting to mix squad roles since the plasma wants to hit harder targets and the squad will want to hit lighter ones, you can't optimize on the T5 of the aggressor, and if you want to avoid being held up in melee, you have to drop another one for an inceptor, meaning you're only managing 3 incinerators then if you're wanting a fully optimized squad.

3) The reason you take the default incinerator is for the S8 on overcharge and the volume of fire. S8 is the sweet spot in this edition. So many things are T7 that needing to overcharge to wound it on 4s is a waste of effort. The assault incinerators do nothing to T4 that the default incinerator doesn't do.

4) Cost. Assault are more expensive than default. Clear winner here when it comes to performance and output. Why take something that I feel underperforms that's more expensive? Edit: Mr4Minutes correctly pointed out that the assault version's price dropped. Yet for some reason the Heavy one stayed at 2 pts higher. 

Edited May 2, 2020 by Qui-Gon

[Mr4Minutes]

I believe the assault version of the incinerator was reduced to the same cost as the rapid fire version with C:SM 2. But it’s still too expensive.

 

So I don’t think the assault version is the competitive choice, but it does have uses. (Although as Qui says they may be done better by the rapid fire version). The high ap is great when targeting elites/multi wound models with no or minimal invuln. Maximum shots at 24” gives them a good threat bubble to work with. The big draw back being the lower strength makes it harder to wound the higher toughness(or double out t4) models. So target priority is key.

 

As Qui says above you’re going to need an aggressor (or else you’d be using the rapid fire version) so this is a Fortis kill team I thought up a little while ago to try to use the assault incinerators.

 

5 auto bolt rifle Intercessors, P.Fist on th srg,

1 aggressor boltstorm variant

3 assault plasma incinerators

1 inceptor plasma variant

 

This is an expensive squad(right next to the intergressor squad) and it lacks the majority t5 protection. It’s threat bubble is now 18” radius, which you’ll need to utilize to minimize how much punishment the squad takes. I think it’ll draw a lot of attention, so using terrain or DS to protect it until you can get a threat overload with multiple units will be key to its effectiveness. You’re getting 2d3 S8 shots in the inceptor, which will also be ap-4 in tactical, so I think you can put a threat to lite vehicles.

 

This is a flexible unit, but it may be more jack of all and master of none leading it to flop. It would not be in the first set of units I’d build. But, if you’ve got the models or are looking for different units then what you’ve already got in your core, I think it’s worth a try. At least in a friendly game.

 

The real squad I wanted to build with the assault incinerator was a Primaris tactical squad. 5 auto bolt rifles and 1 ass incin inside an impulsor. Good mobility and the ability to shred light infantry. Sadly we still can’t take that transport.