Dark Angels tier and power level

[Bloody Legionnaire]

I have decent amount of Dark Angels models and because GW has dropped the ball with Space Wolves (once again) I think I'm going to be building up a new main loyalist army for me to game with. I'm in between Dark Angels and Ultramarines (or both).

For you guys that are Dark Angels players, where do Dark Angels sit as an army after PA and what not? It's my personal opinion that Dark Angels are at least in a better spot than Space Wolves are, but I haven't picked up a DA codex to do a direct comparison.

I generally believe non-compliant Chapters are never treated with as much favor by GW as compliant Chapters are (Blood Angels is kinda the outlier here, though). Which is why I'm leaning towards having a compliant Chapter in my collection, so I know I'll always have an army with a decent amount of support (SMs didn't stay bad for long in 8th, for example).

I would not be surprised if DAs have some fairly powerful and competitive builds, particularly compared to SW's. I just don't want to put a lot of resources into an Army that I'd struggle to get good gaming builds out of. Dark Angels just have so much variety and good units worth fielding in each of the "Wings" I'm not as worried about them just not being very good.

 

[Get Thokt]

With ITC tournaments currently on hold, it isn't easy to tell where competitive Dark Angels sit in the meta.

 

That being said, a lot of the high profile players in the scene believe Dark Angels to be in a very good spot due to their new rules.

 

In my opinion, Dark Angels are placed just below the top tier (Raven Guard, Tau and maybe Iron Hands?) and would put them on the same level as Ultramarines, Blood Angels and Imperial Fists.

 

I'm also a new player to Dark Angels so I'm sure the others in the forum can provide a better consensus.

 

As for the competitive DA builds, there was a flyer list that won a GT (before the Space Marine nerf) though I believe there is an equally strong build using Deathwing Knights and using Ravenwing to get them into close combat (Talonmasters seem to be an essential part to any DA build). The Greenwing is used for troops and chaplains to fill out a brigade or battalion since we have a ton of useful stratagems to have our guys hit hard and be durable.

 

Here is an article published by Nick Nanavati that should help provide you an insight to building a DA army:

 

https://www.theartofwar40k.com/home/faction-focus-dark-angels

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Get Thokt, that was a greatly insightful resource, I appreciate the post!

I'm surprised he didn't really put much emphasis on the flyers. The Dark Talon is such a great unit for the Dark Angels

[Skywrath]

It is my experience/impression that we are mid-tier at best. Barring personal experience, I have little ways of justifying that, aside from not seeing little if at all DA players in the meta, pre-quarantine. 

[G8Keeper]

I disagree Grim Resolve is useless, I think of it as a handy little extra, it's not going to win you games like other marine chapters tactic but, it will help out that Eliminator squad you've got hidden out of line of sight, holding an objective away from the rest of your army.  It'll also mean you have a Company Master standing next to every model in your army (in effect), with the caveat of if you don't move.

[FarFromSam]

Mid Tier.  Certainly better than we were, but I'd say we are at the same Level, or lower as SW rules wise.  We're still cooler looking with better lore, but our rules got mashed up because of IH abuse.  For a hot minute we were in a really fun spot with our Dev doctrine that opened up a lot of fun lists that paired well with Grim resolve, and our personal litany.  There were also some really tragic list building that made me cringe. (Who, with a straight face, can bring 6 fliers, and some characters and call that a fun list?)  But, the new mandatory rigid doctrine march, marched most thematic and fun lists back into the grave.  

 

We have some fun stuff, just mixed up with no direction (again).  That extra 3" on pistols turn one is really strong.

[Berzul]

If only they had allowed us to at least have two rounds of the devastator doctrine, instead of just one.... I mean, you can have two of the Tactical Doctrine. Up to four of the Assault Doctrine, if the dice go right!

[TempestBlade]

Or if they do +6” range for heavy in dev, +6” for rapid and assault in tactical, and +6” for pistol and grenades in assault. Or change to 3” if it works better

[ValourousHeart]

IMO there is a real misunderstanding about how the codexes rank up with each other.

 

Most people think of this as a linear scale from Best to Worst.  With no real consensus of which 1, 2, or 5 codexes are at the top of Everest, and somewhere between 1 and 14 codexes at the bottom of the ocean.  But if that were the case then there is a single BEST UNIT that is strong verses everything and has no weaknesses.  Anyone remotely competitive, even those that claim to be casual players that just like to make tough lists, would take an army of BEST UNITS.  If it is really that straight line scale, then why don't we see a consistent winning army/unit at tournaments?

 

The second group of people will hesitantly agree that 40k is a more complex version of Rock Paper Scissors.  However they will add a number of absurd changes to the basic RPS format that makes Scissors useless and Paper unbeatable.  It shouldn't take a PHD to discover the flaw in their logic.

 

Which brings us to how I view the game.  As a more involved involved version of RPS.  Every unit is strong against somethings and weak against others.  Some codexes have rules that make certain builds more effective and thus encourage that play style.  Other codexes do really poorly when trying to copy another codex's play style.  If you look at any codex and come away with the impression that everything that codex can do can be done better by another codex, then you are clearly trying to force the wrong play style on the codex.

 

I suspect the reason that the majority of people fall into the first category has to do with the opinions coming out of the tournament scene.  This group is small but very vocal.  They are also a collection of players that account for a disproportionate percentage of the games played, which means that their observation have some merit.  However they also have serious blind spot for their confirmation bias.  The assumption that if they don't see it at tournaments then it must be bad... as opposed to the perspective that it is simply bad for that particular tournament environment.  Which could include the mission pack, the list of likely opponents / lists, ease of transport of their models, how quickly their preferred list can complete a turn, and which units are fully painted or can be fully painted in time for the tournament, all of which play a vital role in determining which list the player will bring to the tournament.

 

This means that if you view the codexes / units as the face of a clock, a large portion of the clock will be missing.  Like skipping from 9 to Noon.  That means that THE BEST is the unit that is missing the natural counter from the list of likely opponents / lists.

 

In my experience trying to play the CP game that other codexes play puts DA in a poor position.  Insistence on going for a Battalion is our downfall.

 

With our Chapter Tactic giving every model a tiny Captain to hold in their pocket, that means you can be more points efficient with your characters and make stronger and more aggressive lists that focus on the Outrider, Vanguard or Spearhead detachments.

 

 

If only they had allowed us to at least have two rounds of the devastator doctrine, instead of just one.... I mean, you can have two of the Tactical Doctrine. Up to four of the Assault Doctrine, if the dice go right!

 

Yeah this was IMO a bit of an over reaction to an issue that would have been resolved if the tournament tables actually had close to 25% terrain on the board.  The typical tournament will have 17% to 20% terrain coverage and often the amount of clear open ground means that the you are almost able to push something with the footprint of a manta around easily.