Deredeo or Iron Missile Havocs

[Lord Krungharr]

Looking for some long range support for my IVth Legion. I’ve got quad mortar rapiers cooking but those aren’t high strength. I also have Tyrant Terminators but that’s just one unit and they’ll be closer in for the fightin’

 

Deredeo seems pretty awesome, probably just would stick with the Anvilus Autocannon artsy. But Iron Missile Havocs with a Master of Signal or Siegemaster (for tank hunters) in a bastion seems pretty super tough and irony.

 

Anyone used or faced either one?

[Gorgoff]

Looking for some long range support for my IVth Legion. I’ve got quad mortar rapiers cooking but those aren’t high strength. I also have Tyrant Terminators but that’s just one unit and they’ll be closer in for the fightin’

 

Deredeo seems pretty awesome, probably just would stick with the Anvilus Autocannon artsy. But Iron Missile Havocs with a Master of Signal or Siegemaster (for tank hunters) in a bastion seems pretty super tough and irony.

 

Anyone used or faced either one?

You could take both. 8)

[SkimaskMohawk]

I gotta ask what type of armour you're taking this unit for.

 

Is it heavy armour in the range of Spartans?

Is it leviathan killing?

Is it flyers?

Is it av 13?

 

You get what im asking by now. You say that quad mortars are too low strength, but str 8 with sunder is better than tyrants and the same as the deredeo. The havocs are strictly better than both due to bs 5, -1 cover and tank hunters, but are more vulnerable as they're just marines. If you're looking for general anti tank, my all stars have been the autocannon havocs; they can't scratch a Spartan, but with double the shots of other varieties they hull point down any other target.

 

My rocket havocs are usually mediocre in comparison.

Edited May 3, 2020 by SkimaskMohawk

[Gorgoff]

I may add that putting a Siege Master into the Tyrant Siege Terminators multiply their tank killing abilities quiet substantially.

He's my go to compulsory HQ in almost all cases.

As ever SkimaksMohawk is right about the Havocs. Autocannons are very versatile and against small to medium tank even better then Rokkit Boyz ;)

Oh, and 5 Havocs with Lascannons are only +15 points compared to a HSS with the same equipment.

[Lord Krungharr]

Great points, I don’t have much of anything for dealing AV14 aside from 2 Medusas. What has armorbane? Ceramite is all over the place from what I hear so Melta may not be the ticket there. I’ll price out the AC vs Las Havocs.

 

I forgot the quad mortars had different ammo choices. Is that just per the faq? No extra points cost or do we have to choose which one to have for the whole game? Faq just says replace the weapon profiles with...

[SkimaskMohawk]

Theres points values in the army list. Its 10 points per model to get shatter rounds, which is 4 str 8 ap 4 sunder shots each. You can buy multiple rounds and choose which you're firing every turn.

 

In terms of reliable av14 killing, there's only a handful of weapons. Medusas are one of them due to the high strength, AP and barrage to circumvent flare shields. Grav weapons are another; hull points on a 2+ and then creating individual instances of dangerous terrain. The last is kraken missiles off a lightning; one volley kills a Spartan on average, but after that you only have lascannons for the rest of the game.

 

In terms of las-havocs, it's important to remember that most av14 is actually av15 because of flare shields. A squad of 10 will average 2.5 hull points a turn, which is good, but if they've gotten two turns of movement out of a Spartan then it's accomplished it's purpose.

[The Scorpion]

In terms of reliable av14 killing, there's only a handful of weapons. Medusas are one of them due to the high strength, AP and barrage to circumvent flare shields. Grav weapons are another; hull points on a 2+ and then creating individual instances of dangerous terrain. The last is kraken missiles off a lightning; one volley kills a Spartan on average, but after that you only have lascannons for the rest of the game.

 

In terms of las-havocs, it's important to remember that most av14 is actually av15 because of flare shields. A squad of 10 will average 2.5 hull points a turn, which is good, but if they've gotten two turns of movement out of a Spartan then it's accomplished it's purpose.

 

What about laser destroyers and neutron lasers? Sure, they cannot go around the flare shields, but they're equal or higher strength and AP (are they still AP1?) than Medusas while also being ordinance, and often come on a sturdier chassis. (Vindicator, Sicaran, Cerberus)

[SkimaskMohawk]

Well, a medusa is strength 10 ap 2, with barrage and ordnance.

 

A laser destroyer is strength 9 ap 1 with ordnance.

A neutron laser is strength 10 ap 1 with ordnance, shock pulse and 2 shots.

 

Laser destroyers get knocked down to strength 8, which prevents them from being able to penetrate and wasting their AP value.

 

Neutron lasers inflict .45 penetrating hits a volley. Power of the machine spirit means it loses effectivness against Spartans, but its clearly extremely valuable against all the super heavies that use blast weapons (though not the glaive as its unique in its firing mechanic).

The cerberus' version is the same, but doubles the range and is twin linked, but is more swingy.

 

The medusa actually has a worse chance to explode a Spartan vs neutron laser in the front, but the important factors come from barrage. Not needing to be in LoS means that you be effectively more durable than the non-super heavy options. It also allows you to ignore cover, which swings the math back in its favor.

 

Honestly, the best unit to stop a Spartan is a double grav dread being dropped right in its way via a pod. Force them to kill 2 units, take 2 hull points and pass up to 4 dangerous terrain tests to move towards you.

[Lord Krungharr]

Double grav dreadnought you say....that sounds like a Leviathan.  Guess I won't mind selling some of my excess Age of Sigmar stuff to pay for that.....Legion of Azgorh is probably going away someday anyways.

[Slips]

in 30k, a double-gun Leviathan isnt as good as you might think and you definitely want a Claw at the minimum so he has S10 Ap2 Melee so he doesnt get tarpit by a tactical squad for the rest of the game.

 

And, when we talk about Double-Grav dreadnoughts, we usually mean either very cheap boxnaughts with 2x Gravguns in their fists or the slightly more expensive and durable Contemptor with 2 Gravguns in their fists.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Slips

[SkimaskMohawk]

Ya I forgot to hit enter on my post but Slips covers it nicely.

[Lord Krungharr]

Ah excellent point.  It would be a shame to have a Leviathan just trying to kick the little guys for 4-5 turns