What exactly are the rules for posting etiquette

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

You sound like you’re feeling a bit suppressed really. There are other forums for 40k.

[Scribe]

No, not really.

 

I'm annoyed, that after years of the same fools getting to run their mouths with no consequence, with years of those fools baiting people, and spreading misinformation and ignorance, with posts, just like ours being deleted on a whim, with threads and discussions truncated and cut short, moved without any care, that we can THEN have 2 clear cases where a thread is locked OVER NOTHING, and a perfectly fine discussion can be chilled by 'moderator text' telling us.

 

 

 

=][=

 

A lot of the discussion here is getting too in depth for the topic at hand. State the HH novel that is your least favorite, say your piece, and move on. If you wish to have a more detailed discussion, then I encourage you to take it to the thread for the particular novel, or create a new topic.

 

=][=

 

 

1. That discussion is too 'in depth'.

2. We should state our point and MOVE ON.

3. That if we wish to have detailed discussion, it should be...in some other thread?

 

This is absolute garbage, on both examples. 

 

Either there are rules and they should be applied, or there are not.

Edited May 10, 2020 by Scribe

[Dusktiger]

I am curious to know having some posts deleted for no reason known why.

Hey Black Blow Fly,

To go into some detail concerning your question, and to add to some of the responses initially given, here's some of the reasons posts can disappear.

To start with, the most common times a post will disappear is when it's reviewed by a Moderator and found to be in some violation of one of the main rules Grotsmasha posted earlier. Namely, the Swearing, Trolling, Flaming, Derogatory Insults, Off-topic, and Disruptive Behavior; these are the ones that we respond to the most. And as the board is a very large place now that we include every faction in the 40k universe, we normally respond first to the posts that have had someone hit the "Report" button. After that, it's on a review basis as the staff read through and engage in the threads that catch their eye as something interesting to read.

Since the last 2 reasons are more Grey Area, you have to ask if what you posted had anything to do with politics, nationalism, religion, sexuality or moral/ethical debates. Because any one of those can quickly lead to heated arguments, the Moderators tend to take a more hard-line response and just hide those posts. (We only hide content from non-staff; posts are never deleted). And in the case of Disruptive Behavior, "if all you ever post is negativity, off topic posts or anything else that consistently disrupts discussions, then your posts and privileges will be dealt with accordingly."

So when we find a thread that ends up spiraling off-topic for 2, 3, 5,...12 pages about something that has nothing to do with the original post's discussion, then we respond with first locking the thread to prevent more replies while we tidy the thread up. Then, we either edit individual replies to remove swear words, insults, etc., or simply hide the reply if it came with only a crass response to another member, and no content of substance worth keeping visible. And if the reply in question was part of a string of responses, such as several others replied to/quoted the bad post, then those have to be hidden as well so readers coming along after the fact aren't confused about what those posts are talking about. If the thread de-railed with multiple pages of off-topic replies, but reading through said replies shows us that it's a worthwhile discussion we should let continue, then we have to read through every reply, tag them, and split them off into a new topic thread. Now this is where you see the biggest inconsistency. Because sometimes the Moderator that caught the thread and locked it is able to edit and split topics quickly; sometimes the Moderator is busy with IRL stuff, and has to come back to it later, leaving the thread locked for a day or two, or three. And that can't be helped; we all have spouses, children, work, university courses, and our own 40k building, painting, and gaming to do as well as be a Moderator. So having a thread locked doesn't necessarily mean it'll stay that way for good; but we can't always make it happen in as short of a time period as we would like.

Granted, if you see a thread get locked, and the Moderator, or Admin that did so used the following image in the spoiler tag, then in that case, the thread will not be reopening ever again, unless they posted a caveat stating the only acceptable reason they will unlock the thread again.

I hope that helps to clarify a bit as to why posts sometimes disappear.

[Scribe]

 

Granted, if you see a thread get locked, and the Moderator, or Admin that did so used the following image in the spoiler tag, then in that case, the thread will not be reopening ever again, unless they posted a caveat stating the only acceptable reason they will unlock the thread again.

 

 

 

Even when they are wrong?

[walter h]

Why can you ,not move it to the appropriate subforum? Wouldn't it benefit you to put it there where you could delve more deeply into the topic. Where more of those interested in the discourse would be more likely to join. If you are asked ,or it is suggested then maybe you have a point that should be expressed separate.

[Panzer]

 

 

Granted, if you see a thread get locked, and the Moderator, or Admin that did so used the following image in the spoiler tag, then in that case, the thread will not be reopening ever again, unless they posted a caveat stating the only acceptable reason they will unlock the thread again.

 

 

 

Even when they are wrong?

 

 

Whether they are wrong or not is up to the admins. If you have a problem with a mod choice contact an admin. If the choice was made by an admin they simply aren't wrong and you have to suck it up. As earlier mentioned, this is not a democracy. Admins have the last word whether you like it or not.

[tychobi]

Rules applied unevenly become tools of oppression. We can do better to include other views and attitudes by having the rules applied evenly and fairly. I have felt totally mystified as to how a rules interpretation was applied to shut down a thread of mine in the recent past. The explanation I was given by PM was demonstrably false. If the goal was to suppress my enjoyment of these forums they succeeded and I post much less now than I did before. The mods can do better. We deserve better.

[Joe]

Whether they are wrong or not is up to the admins. If you have a problem with a mod choice contact an admin. If the choice was made by an admin they simply aren't wrong and you have to suck it up. As earlier mentioned, this is not a democracy. Admins have the last word whether you like it or not.

I'd typically agree, however I've known numerous communities within the Warhammer 40,000 spectrum whose administrators have been the root of various problems - communities that subsequently improved after the administrator/s in question were forced out. The notion that a choice made by an admin can't be wrong is incredibly foolish, and reeks of subservient brown-nosing.

 

As far as the issues here go; I think my post over in the Moderating in News and Rumours thread hit the nail on the head; we're still awaiting a response from the forum staff, whilst I'm thinking about it.

 

It's an odd one.

 

One of the great things about B&C is that everyone is able to engage - they can share opinions and gossip with one another about how cool x or y miniatures are, what they don't like about a recent business practice or why they think an alternative decision might have been a better course of action and so forth. Unfortunately, there's a fairly consistent group users who go out of their way to derail threads - insulting other members, intentionally steering the topic into off-topic territory with irrelevant discourse, joining a thread to snipe at a specific army or part of the business that really isn't relevant to the discussion and so forth. 

 

It can lead to a lack of faith in the moderators when a thread is fragged because the usual suspects have come in, derailed it, and as far as can be seen gotten off scott free - and that's including the stuff that goes beyond the norm, i.e. the sexist remarks or disparaging remarks or phrases relating to disabilities that some users seem to think make for appropriate discourse. I don't know if it's simply turning a blind eye to long term members / friends or if it's simply a lack of reporting going on but it's very not right.

 

I feel people might be a bit more confident in the staff if repeat offenders were more visibly reprimanded in front of the forum for their behaviour - be it a more visible "probation" tag to replace + FRATER + whatever, an enforced avatar change, etc. It's much more fair than fragging a thread because of a few bad apples, and with a little luck the public shaming will kick them back into line.

 

That's pretty much my two cents. General thread moderation can be a bit harsh at times, although that's strictly related to other poor behaviour - and I must admit, I'm not a fan of splitting the conversations off into the sub-forums until post-release, but then again I'm also much more in favour of trying to condense / control the number of threads a bit better.

 

As far as third-party content goes - I don't see why it can't be in News. We're a hobby forum last I checked - we're all about the different things to expand and improve upon the systems that this forum covers, i.e. those relating to the Warhammer 40,000 Universe. It'd be an utter betrayal to our community to frag and disallow it. I suppose the only other alternative would to be to split News into first and third-party sub-forums, but that just creates extra work.

It is becoming clear that we're rapidly approaching a point where a lack of meaningful action to remove the problem individuals within the regular member base and the moderation team is going to start having a substantially negative impact on the community. Whilst I don't necessarily know or understand the thread the original poster is referring to or the conversations that were undertaken therein, there have been a few similar cases recently I've seen where the situation has been mismanaged diabolically.

Edited May 10, 2020 by Joe

[Scribe]

 

 

 

Granted, if you see a thread get locked, and the Moderator, or Admin that did so used the following image in the spoiler tag, then in that case, the thread will not be reopening ever again, unless they posted a caveat stating the only acceptable reason they will unlock the thread again.

 

 

 

Even when they are wrong?

 

 

Whether they are wrong or not is up to the admins. If you have a problem with a mod choice contact an admin. If the choice was made by an admin they simply aren't wrong and you have to suck it up. As earlier mentioned, this is not a democracy. Admins have the last word whether you like it or not.

 

 

In practice, on a privately owned and controlled forum you are 100% correct.

 

In all applications of logic, you and I and everyone who reads your post, know that is a farce because my thread had no fault.

 

You all can keep it locked. Its been 2 or 3 days, you (Mod/Admin Team) have had ample opportunity to review, and at the very least do the courtesy of reaching out, and you have not.

 

"A plea of innocence is guilty of wasting my time."

 

How very very on brand for the setting.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I am curious to know having some posts deleted for no reason known why.

Hey Black Blow Fly,

To go into some detail concerning your question, and to add to some of the responses initially given, here's some of the reasons posts can disappear.

To start with, the most common times a post will disappear is when it's reviewed by a Moderator and found to be in some violation of one of the main rules Grotsmasha posted earlier. Namely, the Swearing, Trolling, Flaming, Derogatory Insults, Off-topic, and Disruptive Behavior; these are the ones that we respond to the most. And as the board is a very large place now that we include every faction in the 40k universe, we normally respond first to the posts that have had someone hit the "Report" button. After that, it's on a review basis as the staff read through and engage in the threads that catch their eye as something interesting to read.

Since the last 2 reasons are more Grey Area, you have to ask if what you posted had anything to do with politics, nationalism, religion, sexuality or moral/ethical debates. Because any one of those can quickly lead to heated arguments, the Moderators tend to take a more hard-line response and just hide those posts. (We only hide content from non-staff; posts are never deleted). And in the case of Disruptive Behavior, "if all you ever post is negativity, off topic posts or anything else that consistently disrupts discussions, then your posts and privileges will be dealt with accordingly."

So when we find a thread that ends up spiraling off-topic for 2, 3, 5,...12 pages about something that has nothing to do with the original post's discussion, then we respond with first locking the thread to prevent more replies while we tidy the thread up. Then, we either edit individual replies to remove swear words, insults, etc., or simply hide the reply if it came with only a crass response to another member, and no content of substance worth keeping visible. And if the reply in question was part of a string of responses, such as several others replied to/quoted the bad post, then those have to be hidden as well so readers coming along after the fact aren't confused about what those posts are talking about. If the thread de-railed with multiple pages of off-topic replies, but reading through said replies shows us that it's a worthwhile discussion we should let continue, then we have to read through every reply, tag them, and split them off into a new topic thread. Now this is where you see the biggest inconsistency. Because sometimes the Moderator that caught the thread and locked it is able to edit and split topics quickly; sometimes the Moderator is busy with IRL stuff, and has to come back to it later, leaving the thread locked for a day or two, or three. And that can't be helped; we all have spouses, children, work, university courses, and our own 40k building, painting, and gaming to do as well as be a Moderator. So having a thread locked doesn't necessarily mean it'll stay that way for good; but we can't always make it happen in as short of a time period as we would like.

Granted, if you see a thread get locked, and the Moderator, or Admin that did so used the following image in the spoiler tag, then in that case, the thread will not be reopening ever again, unless they posted a caveat stating the only acceptable reason they will unlock the thread again.

I hope that helps to clarify a bit as to why posts sometimes disappear.

Thanks !

[WarriorFish]

It looks like Dusktiger has resolved the original question, as to the other point on the N&R - which has its own topic for a reason - this is still under discussion. When there is an update it will be made until then some patience is not something we feel is too much to ask given the potential implications of any changes. Framing it as some kind of slight is unfair, and disrespectful of the volunteer nature of the team and what free time may be available. We have lives to live the same as anyone else.

 

The rules can not cover everything, and grey areas are not some malicious trick but a result of the imperfect nature of language. If we attempted such an impossible task it would be fruitless anyway, as the rules would be so long nobody could read them. If you wish to see some specifics, here are some things we will not tolerate - but are also not mentioned in the rules explicitly because it should not be necessary:

• gatekeeping
• forcing your opinion on others
• attempts to get members banned

There is no conspiracy against anyone or anything, no deliberate obfuscation of action. The B&C has made no secret of the mission statement and intended culture of the board, nor that the rules are expected to be followed at all times. Given the vast majority of the membership do so without problem every day we have no reason to believe this statement of intent doesn't work, or the rules are not sufficient to reasonably support this.

 

If anyone wants to genuinely discuss something (i.e. without the theatrics) then the door is open as it always is, as per the rules. If you wish to do so publicly this is not possible without breaking the B&C's policy of keeping a member's moderated history private - again it is not some ploy to hide our actions but a measure to protect the privacy of members. As such, with Black Blow Fly's question answered this topic has served its purpose and more.