Saga of the Beast - Ideas? Strat's to Use? Gear Musts?

[Karack Blackstone]

Hello all.

 

So I now have my copy of Saga of the Beast at home; not in front of me right now, however...

 

Musts:

- Veteran Intercessors - My logic is thus: with BR's, VIC's and some HQ support, 7 or more VIC's is going to be worth 2 CP every single time. I will either run 1 P-WGBL or P-Ragnar with the 9 VI's, TH on VICL, maybe reassign a single VIC for a P-WP, stick them in a Repulsor, or if I must, 5 + P-Rags/P-WGBL with TH on the VICL as normal, and go for the 1 CP version. VIC's with ABR's might close best, however BR's with the 2 CP strat and the BD rule for Astartes might be too good to consider. What are your thoughts on this concept? What weapon do you give them all? BR? ABR?

 

- Knowledge of the Foe - Fluffy and strong, getting a FIXED/NO ROLL CP back is surely not something to ignore. Enemy Character hunting means going after Nobs, Sergeants, Leaders, anything with the Char key word is suddenly not only worth it, it is sensible! I cannot say how much this 0 CP Strat should shine! - Does it stack per fight phase? Or has this been FAQ'ed? Worth checking, as 5 CP a Fight phase means foe headhunting just became a strategic reward to pursue for SW's forces on the table!

 

- Shock Assault and BC's - Does the SA and Berserk Charge for BC's stack? If so, that's +2 A instead of merely +1. Also, I mean to change my list, going to Mantra of Strength across and on every single WP, that +1 A and +1 S with all of this means BC's are way too good to not at least consider. Which means and leads to...

 

- GH's, what do they need? 2 CP for Intercessors with BR's to pour on the shots with RF 2 base, plus the added benefit of Bolter Discipline means that firing up to 4 shots cannot be missed.

 

- IC's, of all types, VIC's too, must be carefully considered. Intercessors seem best suited to use BR's and ABR's, albeit with either or as the standard. A pressing IC unit with ABR's and Ragnar is going to be devastating as they close. Might be worth it as the one VIC unit. That typed, VIC's with BR's in a non P-Ragnar list may just be too good to not at least consider. However, with P-Ragnar it just seems like ABR's are too much a must. Thoughts?

 

- Honestly, IC's are a must now. I think Valerians unit buying file shows this far too well. Still, why? 2 W, 3+ Save, 4 Toughness, 2 Attacks, and plenty of rough and tumble abilities, with ABR's, or Assault Bolt Rifles being Assault 3, this unit with P-Ragnar going into something as the VIC's with therefore +1 A and +1 Ld is too good to not at least consider a reasonable HQ and escort/hearthguard. What does surprise me is that without putting this force in an Impulsor, also in the book, they're just as usual way too slow. Being what, 87 points total, for an Impulsor with the shield dome, consider it please!

 

- The Phobos force might be a good second Battalion to support a more conventional Battalion of IC's and assorted support elements. Two IC's with BC's to assist in terms of minimum troops would seem strong. Then, with the Strat that lets the SW's take a second (more?) WL trait, one can reasonably handle two WL's fighting as a more combined arms detachment, thus the two separate yet supportive Battalions.

 

- Anything else you consider shiners?

 

Edit:

 

GH - Grey Hunter

IC - Intercessor(s)

VIC - Veteran Intersessor(s)

V/ICL - Veteran / Intercessor Leader

BC - Blood Claws

HQ - Headquarters

BR - Bolt Rifle

ABR - Auto Bolt Rifle

CP - Command Point

FAQ - Frequently Asked Questions, SW Codex / PA: Saga of the Beast

P-WGBL - Primaris Wolf Guard Battle Leader

P-Ragnar - Primaris Ragnar

BD - Bolter Discipline

Edited May 12, 2020 by Karack Blackstone

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

Pretty sure, nobs sergeants, etc dont have the character keyword this edition so unless you kill a block of actual characters getting 5 cp seems unlikely.

 

Otherwise definitely a strong book

[TiguriusX]

Terminators!!!

 

(Men in white coats take Brother Tigurius away)

[BadgersinHills]

Saw a battle report where Murderfang took out Mortarion first turn. There was a good amount of luck involved, of course, but with 3 CP spent on Touch of the Wild and Honour of the Chapter and 1 CP regained, shows how good Touch of the Wild is. Ragnar is a good choice for it since he has 10 attacks on the charge. A good amount of hurt can be given, and an Impulsor seems a pretty reliable choice for getting him up the field. 

Edited May 12, 2020 by BadgersinHills

[Wolf Guard Dan]

Terminators!!!

(Men in white coats take Brother Tigurius away)

How’d he get out again?! I thought we deactivated the transport matrix in his tactical dreadnought Armor.

 

Not a fan of veteran Intercessors. There’s just so much stuff to spend CP on it takes a backseat to. Double battalion the way to go.

[Kallas]

- Knowledge of the Foe - [...] Does it stack per fight phase? Or has this been FAQ'ed? Worth checking, as 5 CP a Fight phase means foe headhunting just became a strategic reward to pursue for SW's forces on the table!

 

If Matched Play, you can only play a Stratagem once per phase (even though it costs 0CP); if it's Narrative or Open Play...yup, you can get 5CP if you kill five characters in the Fight Phase!

[Wispy]

i'm just lost with all all the acronyms 

[Valerian]

Couple points:

 

1. Stratagems are single use per phase, so only one instance of Knowledge of the Foe per player turn.

 

2. Sergeants and Nobz, etc., aren’t Characters (look on datasheets for the keyword at the bottom).

 

3. Shock Attack and Berserk Charge does stack on Blood Claws.

 

4. Mantra of Strength isn’t an Aura. That Litany only affects the Wolf Priest himself, so isn’t worth taking. Go for the stuff that buffs surrounding units (like Canticle of Hate, to get your charges off successfully).

[Karack Blackstone]

Couple points:

 

1. Stratagems are single use per phase, so only one instance of Knowledge of the Foe per player turn.

 

2. Sergeants and Nobz, etc., aren’t Characters (look on datasheets for the keyword at the bottom).

 

3. Shock Attack and Berserk Charge does stack on Blood Claws.

 

4. Mantra of Strength isn’t an Aura. That Litany only affects the Wolf Priest himself, so isn’t worth taking. Go for the stuff that buffs surrounding units (like Canticle of Hate, to get your charges off successfully).

Aw, number 4. Oh well.

 

Yeah, back to Canticle of Hate then.

 

Hm, also, Edited in the Acronym list explained.

[ranulf the revenant]

@Karak: a minor thing, but: could you use a bit less acronyms or give the full unit name first? It's a bit hard to follow :D...

 

It was addressed already, nevermind...

Edited May 12, 2020 by ranulf the revenant

[Karhedron]

I suspect that Transhuman Physiology is going to be as popular for us as for all other Chapters. Play on a unit of Wulfen and watch your opponent weep as overcharged plasma and Battlecannons now require a 4+ to Wound.

[Iain_Stormeyes]

 

Terminators!!!

(Men in white coats take Brother Tigurius away)

How’d he get out again?! I thought we deactivated the transport matrix in his tactical dreadnought Armor.

 

Not a fan of veteran Intercessors. There’s just so much stuff to spend CP on it takes a backseat to. Double battalion the way to go.

 

 

I'm still not sold on Double battalion.  Our troops aren't our all stars, and I'd rather bring units that are baseline good then use CP judiciously to get benefits.

[TiguriusX]

 

 

 

Terminators!!!

(Men in white coats take Brother Tigurius away)

How’d he get out again?! I thought we deactivated the transport matrix in his tactical dreadnought Armor.

 

Not a fan of veteran Intercessors. There’s just so much stuff to spend CP on it takes a backseat to. Double battalion the way to go.

I'm still not sold on Double battalion. Our troops aren't our all stars, and I'd rather bring units that are baseline good then use CP judiciously to get benefits.

I too have defected from the double battalion party and find the loss of CP insignificant.

 

5 CP but I was outflanking all 3 troop choices

 

Instead I spent all those points on elites and dont need further CP for deployment

 

In my list it was a total net loss of 1 CP but the elite units replacing the troops are far superior

[Valerian]

Our troops aren't our all stars.

I’m not sure about this. I suppose, like always, it depends on how you’re putting your lists together, but I’m finding 4 Packs of Intercessors in Impulsors, supported by Ragnar and Haldor to be my Allstars.

 

I’ve got no problems running a double-Battalion because, for once, the Troops aren’t a tax.

 

Edit: I should have also noted the two small Incursor Packs that are needed to round out the double-bat requirements; but these guys are also very useful, if not quite as good as the Intercessors.

[Iain_Stormeyes]

 

Our troops aren't our all stars.

I’m not sure about this. I suppose, like always, it depends on how you’re putting your lists together, but I’m finding 4 Packs of Intercessors in Impulsors, supported by Ragnar and Haldor to be my Allstars.

 

I’ve got no problems running a double-Battalion because, for once, the Troops aren’t a tax.

 

 

Of if you are doing the Impulsor Rush with Ragnar and Haldor, the troops are great.  But if you want to run a list without protection for the troops, then the troops lose a lot of value.

[Valerian]

Yeah, definitely agree with that.

[Bulwyf]

I am pleased as punch that Ragnar is finally worth taking on the table again. I am still waiting to get his new model.

[theprophetofwar]

I'm still fighting buying Impulsors, as i have other things i'd rather buy... but danged if the ragnar/haldor 4 intercessor/tanks and two Incursors just seems so bloody simple and effective. I've converted to that 4 tank camp as the way forward.  I was already often running a bat and command, so i'm sure i'll eventually upgrade, just...after some other bits get finished... I'm guessing ill end up with two companies. the old firstborn with twc and termies, then the Primaris rush. if the firstborn end up in legends or a separate game, oh well.

Edited May 12, 2020 by theprophetofwar

[Iain_Stormeyes]

I'm still fighting buying Impulsors, as i have other things i'd rather buy... but danged if the ragnar/haldor 4 intercessor/tanks and two Incursors just seems so bloody simple and effective. I've converted to that 4 tank camp as the way forward.  I was already often running a bat and command, so i'm sure i'll eventually upgrade, just...after some other bits get finished... I'm guessing ill end up with two companies. the old firstborn with twc and termies, then the Primaris rush. if the firstborn end up in legends or a separate game, oh well.

 

I am also fighting the Impulsors.  $75 is just a high price for a rhino, I'll pick some up when my friends sell theirs.  But I'm only buying Primaris range now.  I'm expecting all the Firstborn to be legends or much less effective than they already are if/when 9th drops.

[Valerian]

I'm still fighting buying Impulsors, as i have other things i'd rather buy... but danged if the ragnar/haldor 4 intercessor/tanks and two Incursors just seems so bloody simple and effective. 

 

Don't fight it.  I've been play testing my Space Wolves (against Grey Knights and Orks) for the last several weeks, and I just love them.  Like you said, super simple, but effective.  

 

Just think of it this way:  everyone's complaints about Space Wolves, for literally years, is our problem with getting into close combat safely.  Impulsors completely remove that problem.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

 

 

I'm still fighting buying Impulsors, as i have other things i'd rather buy... but danged if the ragnar/haldor 4 intercessor/tanks and two Incursors just seems so bloody simple and effective.

Don't fight it. I've been play testing my Space Wolves (against Grey Knights and Orks) for the last several weeks, and I just love them. Like you said, super simple, but effective.

 

Just think of it this way: everyone's complaints about Space Wolves, for literally years, is our problem with getting into close combat safely. Impulsors completely remove that problem.

I actually wouldn't say they completely remove the problem as their occupants are limited to a narrow window of choices but it is a good option for those units, no doubt.

[theprophetofwar]

What I'm fighting is the money expenditure at the moment, haha, other priorities.

Sooooon...

[TiguriusX]

What I'm fighting is the money expenditure at the moment, haha, other priorities.

Sooooon...

4 impulsors or a 3D printing machine

 

The inquisition is watching

 

 

[FabulousRex]

I'm running sims online with an Infantry only list that seems weak in the hitting power, but has great board control.

 

1500pts, 1 Battalion, 3 elims, 10 incursor squad, 10 naked Wulfen squad, JP HQs and Murderfang for killing

 

The old metal Wulfen squad is pulling alot more weight than I expected, and its strictly because of the new litany of +1 damage. Opponents don't know what to do with the naked Wulfen, usually writing them off or committing their entire army to wipe them, usually failing to do so. Whichever way the opponent chooses, I can capitalize.

 

The 10 incursor block is an insanely effective unit because of Shrouding from a Phobos Rune Priest screwing up target priorities and forcing opponents to come in close to me for "Hugging Range". I can usually zone out big stuff like Knights ,and I just flat ignore flyers unless my HQs get close and feel like dropping them.

 

Impulsors are indeed great, I seem to be doing a similar tactic of damage and distraction with huge amounts of Phobos meat on the table. It does mean Ragnar is not useful to me, which is sad, but our HQs are killers no matter what.

[Guest Triszin]

What I'm fighting is the money expenditure at the moment, haha, other priorities.

Sooooon...

I expect the year end bundles to have a impulsor in them for marines. until then, I wont pick any up.