Saga of the Beast - Ideas? Strat's to Use? Gear Musts?

[ranulf the revenant]

I've been wondering if combining the impulsor-rush type with maybe two minimum sized squads of Grey Hunters in Assault Cannon Razorback

s would be an option. Would you think that could work, or would the GHs be a redundant element? They idea would probably be to spread out, capture objectives early and some extra dakka ("spread & lead" so to say ), while impulsors and intercessors would be the main force. Maybe this is just me still wanting to put my GHs to use at some point ...

Edited May 13, 2020 by ranulf the revenant

[theprophetofwar]

Kinda my thoughts for the Transitioning

[Karhedron]

Just think of it this way:  everyone's complaints about Space Wolves, for literally years, is our problem with getting into close combat safely.  Impulsors completely remove that problem.

I don't really see how. If you disembark after moving, the unit inside cannot charge. If you stay inside the shelter of the Impulsor, you have to weather a turn of the enemy's shooting. Granted the 4++ from the Shield Dome makes it a bit more durable than a Rhino/Razorback but only a bit. We are in a meta where most armies can drop a Knight in a turn meaning cracking open an Impulsor will not be a serious challenge.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

I've been wondering if combining the impulsor-rush type with maybe two minimum sized squads of Grey Hunters in Assault Cannon Razorback

s would be an option. Would you think that could work, or would the GHs be a redundant element? They idea would probably be to spread out, capture objectives early and some extra dakka ("spread & lead" so to say ), while impulsors and intercessors would be the main force. Maybe this is just me still wanting to put my GHs to use at some point ...

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/363238-2k-fairly-competitive-list-i-think/?do=findComment&comment=5507818

 

I've played solitaire with this list and I like it. Waiting for opening to run it against a real opponent. It's pretty fun brings back memories of my 5th edition lists.

[Karhedron]

I've been wondering if combining the impulsor-rush type with maybe two minimum sized squads of Grey Hunters in Assault Cannon Razorback

s would be an option. Would you think that could work, or would the GHs be a redundant element? They idea would probably be to spread out, capture objectives early and some extra dakka ("spread & lead" so to say ), while impulsors and intercessors would be the main force. Maybe this is just me still wanting to put my GHs to use at some point ...

I think this would work well and is actually what I am planning to try. As well as saving money on multiple Impulsors, the RBs have a higher damage output with the Assault Cannons. Does your opponent concentrate on the RBs with their better guns or the Impulsors with their more dangerous cargoes?

 

The GHs can then take more lightly contested objectives while the Intercessors press home the attack.

[Lord Blackwood]

 

Just think of it this way:  everyone's complaints about Space Wolves, for literally years, is our problem with getting into close combat safely.  Impulsors completely remove that problem.

I don't really see how. If you disembark after moving, the unit inside cannot charge. If you stay inside the shelter of the Impulsor, you have to weather a turn of the enemy's shooting. Granted the 4++ from the Shield Dome makes it a bit more durable than a Rhino/Razorback but only a bit. We are in a meta where most armies can drop a Knight in a turn meaning cracking open an Impulsor will not be a serious challenge.

 

Well an Impulsor is also a small tank that can make use of cover as it zips up the board. 

 

Ideally if you can you wanna move the thing , jump out , Move again ( advance if you have to )  into more cover. 

This sets you up for a Turn 2 charge most likely. 

 

If the area is too hot then you can stay in there ,  and set yourself up a turn  3 charge if you need to I  dont feel like youll need to when you factor in trans human physiology and your other defensive tools. 

 

A knight cant exactly make clever use of the board its out there , and its going to get shot by everything on the board because most of the time when your playing multiple knights you wont be able to hide all of them  behind the one or two huge pieces of terrain. ( ASK ME HOW I KNOW  ./glares at his 16 imperial knights) 

 

Impulsor Rush is probably going to be the better way to run our infantry / drive our troop choices toward intercessors  because finally the primaris have command point support  , and the sheer weight of attacks hitting on 2s plus the buffs they can get from characters will make them more killy than  grey hunters in  close combat , while still maintaining respectable shooting. 

 

Just because people are running lists that can zero a knight a turn  doesn't mean that all armor is useless  especially not a grav tank  with a 4++  that is designed to slingshot yer guys turn 1 to make turn 2 a possibility. 

 

Is it the Blood angels type of guaranteed delivery ?  nah 

 

Is it still probably  the way the wind is blowing for space wolf lists ? probably , unless you know you just hate primaris and refuse to use them then thats another thing entirely ( not pointing any fingers. ) 

 

./sharpens axe. 

 

And I swear if this man comes in here screaming terminators 

Edited May 13, 2020 by Lord Blackwood

[Kallas]

Granted the 4++ from the Shield Dome makes it a bit more durable than a Rhino/Razorback but only a bit. We are in a meta where most armies can drop a Knight in a turn meaning cracking open an Impulsor will not be a serious challenge.

 

Thing is, the 4++ is significant. It doesn't make them "a bit more durable," it makes them a lot more durable. Consider that most anti-tank weapons are AP-2 to AP-4. A Razorback is getting a 5+ save at best. A 4++ is a 50% increase to saved wounds (or a 25% reduction in failed saves).

 

Throw on an additional wound, -2 to being charged, and then it can FLY too (which means it can seriously take advantage of cover without then having to move around it.

 

When I ran two Razorbacks and two Rhinos previously, one of the biggest headaches was movement: utilising cover was a constant weighing up of cost/benefit. Is the additional resilience of this cover (either literal cover save, or cannot be seen/cannot be shot) worth the approximately 6" loss of movement? Is that movement loss going to add up into a significant reduction in ability to close the gap? The Impulsor gets to ignore that: is this cover enough to block LoS? Ok cool, I'll use that and then just fly over it with no issue at all.

 

Razorbacks are still solid units, and a couple of Razorbacks will still work just fine; but the Impulsor has a lot going for it, in terms of being a strong troop transport. Its biggest downside is the small carrying capacity combined with the weak armament (as the Shield Dome is basically mandatory).

[Valerian]

 

Just think of it this way:  everyone's complaints about Space Wolves, for literally years, is our problem with getting into close combat safely.  Impulsors completely remove that problem.

I don't really see how. If you disembark after moving, the unit inside cannot charge. If you stay inside the shelter of the Impulsor, you have to weather a turn of the enemy's shooting. Granted the 4++ from the Shield Dome makes it a bit more durable than a Rhino/Razorback but only a bit. We are in a meta where most armies can drop a Knight in a turn meaning cracking open an Impulsor will not be a serious challenge.

 

 

In addition to what some of these others have been saying, you're not just forcing your opponents to crack open an Impulsor; you're forcing them to crack open 4 Impulsors.  And that 4++ save is huge.

 

In my play testing, I've been keeping my Intercessors safe inside, until I'm ready to pop out and get the charge.

 

Here is why you want to invest in Impulsors:

 

Major themes: A) most of the missions (Eternal War, Maelstrom of War, ITC, etc.) use Objectives as a big component of win-criteria; getting to objectives requires mobility. B) Space Wolves are largely a melee army: this is emphasized in our faction-specific army rules (Hunters Unleashed and Savage Fury), as well as the focus of several of our unique units (Wulfen and Wulfen Dreadnoughts, Thunderwolf Cavalry, etc.). We're going to do much of our damage in the Fight phase, and this requires mobility to get to the right spots to apply our melee power, as well as the protection to get our units in position there safely, so they still have the combat power left to do the damage that we need them to.

 

 

Now, how do Impulsors support these major themes?

 

1. 14" base movement makes this transport FAST. It can get your models around on the battlefield. With a lucky roll, you can Advance up to a total of 20" of movement.

 

2. Since your units can't be targeted while embarked, it gets your units into position safely, so they have the power you need them to still have when they get to the fight.

 

3. It is durable. At Toughness 7, with 11 Wounds, and a 4++ Invulnerable Save (ignoring HALF of all anti-tank firepower that manages to Hit and to Wound), it isn't likely to get shot out from under your Intercessors.

 

4. It forces your opponent to make hard decisions - do they allocate anti-tank firepower against transports, when they've got Invictors, Dreadnoughts, and a Repulsor Executioner (example threats and high value targets) to worry about?

 

5. It can't be movement blocked easily - it has the 'Fly' keyword, so can just zoom right over the top of intervening terrain and cheap infantry screens (a very important protective measure used by so many Shooty armies).

 

6. It can charge in right before the infantry, and absorb the Overwatch (again, the Impulsor is durable, whereas your Intercessors are much less so).  

 

7. It can't be "wrapped and trapped," (again, 'Fly' keyword), so opposing infantry can't protect themselves from your shooting by staying locked in combat.

 

8. It can still shoot after falling back from combat (Fly). Not a huge deal, but double Stormbolters can do some work within Rapid Fire range of light infantry.

9. It's hard to charge (Repulsor Field subtracts 2" from enemy charges), so has another protective mechanism against enemy melee units, and makes it even harder for them to use it as a "leap-frog" tool by leveraging pile-ins and consolidations to gain extra free movement.

[Karack Blackstone]

Impulsors are almost too good for their 97 points.

 

Transports 6 Intercessors (IC's).

Cheap.

Mobile.

4++

Fly

97 points with Shield Dome

118 for 6 Intercessors, 124 for Auto Bolt Rifles

= 215 pts for a 12 W press, 221 for ABR's, as 124 + 97 = 221

 

Meanwhile, Grey Hunters as kitted out below:

 

WGPL, CSwd, SS

GHPL, BG, BP, PF

2 x GH w/ PG, BP, CSwd

6 GH's

8 CSwd's

= 155

+ 67 pt Rhino w/ 1 SB

=

222 pts.

 

221 with 12 Wounds, 18 shots at BS 3+/4, 3+ Sv, TH on the Leader, and a 4++ Ride.

OR

222 for 10 Wounds, a single SS, one PF, and the pack has 2 PG's. In a ground based, no x++ Sv Rhino with 1 SB.

 

The Impulsor at least gets twin Storm Bolters base.

[Karack Blackstone]

Brigade. 3K pts.

 

HQ

- Ragnar, Warlord

- Primaris WP, Canticle of Hate

- Primaris RP, Living Lightning

 

Elite:

- Primaris Ancient x 3

 

Troops:

- 4 Intercessors, Leader w/ TH. Auto Bolt Rifles. x 3

- 4 Intercessors, Leader w/ TH. Bolt Rifles x 3, 2 AGL's in 2 Different Packs

 

Fast Attack:

- 2 Suppressors, Leader x 3

 

Heavy Support:

- 5 Hellblasters, Leader; Plasma Incinerator x 3

 

Dedicated Transports:

- Impulsor, Shield Dome x 9

 

3,000 / 3,000 points.

 

Edit: Meh, forgot the sheer number of Impulsors.

Edited May 13, 2020 by Karack Blackstone

[lonewolf81]

I will have my first game using the new rules against tyranids at 1500 points this weekend.

 

I will be bringing the following:

 

Battalion 

 

Bjorn (twin las, heavy flamer, true claw)

 

Wolfpriest with jumpack (powerfist ) he will be warlord with saga of the wolfkin and he will have the mastercrafted relic and the canticles of hate plus the 2 default litanies

 

TROOPS

 

5xgrey hunters (1xpowerfist)

 

5xintercessors (5xauto bolt rifles)

 

5xintercessors (5xbolt rifles, 1xgrenade launcher)

 

HEAVY SUPPORT

 

3xeliminators (3xsnipers)

 

5xlongfangs (4xplasma cannons, 1xplasma gun on ancient)

 

TRANSPORTS

 

1xdrop pod (1xstorm bolter)

 

 

VANGUARD

 

HQ

 

WG Battle Leader with jumpack (TH/SS, wulfenstone) he will get the saga of the hunter as a second warlord trait

 

ELITES

 

5xWG terminators ( all combi plasma, 3xshields, 2x chainfists)

 

5xaggressors (boltstorm gauntlets / greanade launchers)

 

redemptor dread (double gatling, icarus, 2xstorm bolters)

 

1500 points on the nose!!!

 

TACTICS

 

Eliminators and Bolt rifle intercessors camp 2 base objectives and shoot from distance. Bjorn, wolfpriest, battle leader, the redemptor and the autobolt intercessors create a moving castle. Longfangs join the grey hunters in the drop pod and drop first turn trying to delete a unit with keen senses and reroll wounds supported by bjorn's lascannons if needed. The grey hunters and the pod create a first screen for my moving force. Terminators drop turn two along with aggressors coming from the hunt. Terminators get fury of champions for +1 to hit on the plasmas while both termies and aggressors get -1 ap from tactical doctrine. They both try to be in range of wolfpriest's canticles of hate for 7" charge from reserves.

 

The list can be modified to turn aggressors into 5 wulfen (4xTH/SS and leader with claws) by dropping the plasma gun from longfang ancient and turning a chainfist into a powerfist in the termies.I went with aggressors because even if they fail their charge they can still do something with their shooting. The drop pod can easily be replaced with a rhino by turning a chainfist into a power fist. I went with the pod because it can land anywhere on the field turn one. 

 

The list has 10 CP and 3  are used to take 1 additional relic, 1 additional warlord trait and 1 to get aggressors/wulfen on the hunt

 

 

All in all with saga of the beast wolves are looking good on paper, while we didnt get more reliable ways to get into assault they made us more killy. 

Edited May 14, 2020 by lonewolf81