Devout push

[_luca_93]

Hi guys,

I'm seriously going mad to understand how work this stratagem : so, actually, listening to the player's community how does Devout stratagem work?

 

 

Imagine a situation with no enemies, can i move 3" toward the nearest one? As a result of the pile in, or can i move of 9" as result of pile in plus consolidate movement ?

 

 

And again, suppose with my 3" pile in, i arrive within 1" from the enemy, what's going to happen?

 

Thanks in advance!

Edited May 15, 2020 by varg_vikernes

[ThirtySixNights]

You move a 6" pile in, following the normal rules (towards the nearest enemy model).

 

If you end within an inch. You are now eligible to fight in the fight phase, as outlined in the core rules.

 

 

When you choose to consolidate, you can now do this up to 6".

[SirJyo]

Piling up to 3" is usually for a unit already in base to base contact.

 

With this strat, you move 3 inches towards the nearest enemy unit, you are eligible to fight albeit without priority of having charged and no +1a.

You can fight any unit in range since the rule of only fighting units you declared charge against does not apply.

Following, you can consolidate up to 6" towards the nearest enemy unit.

 

Some additional things to consider:

Oath of glory or master of arms will make devout push more useful even on an enemy turn.

There's also a relic in the main codex that removes shock assault from units in range and gives them +1a instead.

[ThirtySixNights]

Yeah you do pile in only 3 apparently. I thought it was 6. 6" is only for the consolidate.

 

Situational..

[_luca_93]

Thanks for the fast answering guys.

 

So many important points in here.

 

First of all 3" pile, But, if im within 1" an enemy is another 3"pile in, excellent.

 

 

And, a point i have never see from someone else, we could engage different units!!! That's big!

[ThirtySixNights]

Well, you can engage a unit as long as you're within an inch of it. But the pile in move is still a pile in move. You need to move towards the closest model.

[Schlitzaf]

Well, you can engage a unit as long as you're within an inch of it. But the pile in move is still a pile in move. You need to move towards the closest model.

Not exactly you need to end your move closer to the closest enemy model fhere are some tricks you can play with that

[Hymnblade]

You immediately make 3" pile-in move.

 

You do not get to consolidate afterwards, because the stratagem does not give you an entire fight sequence, just a pile-in move. If the unit can be activated to fight after using the stratagem, it can pile in a second time, then consolidate 6".

[Medjugorje]

You move a 6" pile in, following the normal rules (towards the nearest enemy model).

 

If you end within an inch. You are now eligible to fight in the fight phase, as outlined in the core rules.

 

 

When you choose to consolidate, you can now do this up to 6".

thats wrong

 

 

at the start of the fight phase you can make a pile in move (towards the nearest enemy model). And IF you activate them in close combat, you have the ability to make 6" consolidation moves instead 3".

 

 

So you can activate them without being within 1" of an enemy model. But remember that you have to be within 1" to activate them in close combat.

 

practically you can use them to move 3" forward without any ohter action. But you can use this Stratagem to get into close combat, even without a charge ( but dont get the bonus for charges like +1 attack and the ability to attack first)

Edited May 15, 2020 by Medjugorje

[SirJyo]

Well, you can engage a unit as long as you're within an inch of it. But the pile in move is still a pile in move. You need to move towards the closest model.

Don't forget that models an inch from another friendly model within an inch counts as being in melee range. It's flavored as fighting in multiple ranks. This can be abused by a model with a large base.

Additionally barricades increase the acceptable melee distance.

[_luca_93]

Thanks for all your reply swordbrothers.

 

Im so happy to see that our armies, our rules still have a lot to say, a lot to experiment with!

 

After of all these clarification, about Devout push, pieces like Impulsor, seems to be again, a strong choice for some nice combos.

Edited May 15, 2020 by varg_vikernes

[ThirtySixNights]

 

Well, you can engage a unit as long as you're within an inch of it. But the pile in move is still a pile in move. You need to move towards the closest model.

Don't forget that models an inch from another friendly model within an inch counts as being in melee range. It's flavored as fighting in multiple ranks. This can be abused by a model with a large base.

Additionally barricades increase the acceptable melee distance.

Models within the same uni I believe

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Thanks for all your reply swordbrothers.

 

Im so happy to see that our armies, our rules still have a lot to say, a lot to experiment with!

 

After of all these clarification, about Devout push, pieces like Impulsor, seems to be again, a strong choice for some nice combos.

The Impulsor is interesting with Devout Push. You can move an Impulsor, disembark, advance and then devout push to make it into combat. That's a heck of a range.

 

The downside is having something actually worth putting in the Impulsor in the first place!

[Acebaur]

 

Thanks for all your reply swordbrothers.

 

Im so happy to see that our armies, our rules still have a lot to say, a lot to experiment with!

 

After of all these clarification, about Devout push, pieces like Impulsor, seems to be again, a strong choice for some nice combos.

The Impulsor is interesting with Devout Push. You can move an Impulsor, disembark, advance and then devout push to make it into combat. That's a heck of a range.

 

The downside is having something actually worth putting in the Impulsor in the first place!

Veteran intercessors with a TH or sword of judgment on the Sgt and character support is definitely worth it

 

 

Devout push is one of the most powerful strats we have. We can avoid overwatch with it, use it in the opponents phase to get a unit they didn't want to engage with in, or use to bypass charge restrictions like the impulsor or shoot and fade

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Maybe they are. But do you not find the army is getting a bit CP heavy?

 

Between the extra relics, Abhorring the Witch, devout pushing, Emperor's Willing and Tenaciously Assaulting, I'm out of CP really fast!

[Medjugorje]

Maybe they are. But do you not find the army is getting a bit CP heavy?

 

Between the extra relics, Abhorring the Witch, devout pushing, Emperor's Willing and Tenaciously Assaulting, I'm out of CP really fast!

thats the whole problem with all my Black Templar lists - every time.

[_luca_93]

Me too guys.

 

Me too, CP is a really big problem.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Has anyone had any joy with a brigade list?

 

Or are we better off hoping that an edition refresh will refine how armies gain CP?

[Medjugorje]

yes. I ´ve tried one with 3x Eliminators with Lasfu, 2x company veterans, Helbrecht, Castellan, MoS with Jumppack, 4x scouts + 2x Intercessors, 2x Impulsors, 3x trike and one Terminatorsquad. 

I played against a newbie in my area and I´ve won very high (we played a tournament mission) but I was very very unhappy with this list.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Yeah, it doesn't have a very BT feel about it. 

My issue is always filing fast attack, I have 3 Suppressors now, and could take some assault squads, but assault squads suuuuck. Perhaps Inceptors?

[Medjugorje]

Yeah, it doesn't have a very BT feel about it. 

 

My issue is always filing fast attack, I have 3 Suppressors now, and could take some assault squads, but assault squads suuuuck. Perhaps Inceptors?

they are very expensive and doesnt work with that well with our chapter tactic. My main problem is the the fast attack slot too. what I´ve never tried is the assault squad without any loadout. Jut 60 points for 5 crusaders.

 

But if I pick them on my list after a few minutes they are taken out for 3 Trikes instead because of the points^^

Edited May 18, 2020 by Medjugorje

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Oh, not even jump packs? I hadn't considered that. (I suppose because without the jump packs they aren't exactly fast, but could be podded?) They're also cheaper than actual crusaders, with more pistol options, which could be useful with tenacious assault. Chuck on a combat shield for 1 pt?

[Hymnblade]

I've run a Brigade with the Indomitus Crusaders detachment and a bunch of auto bolt rifle/thunder hammer Intercessors. It works OK; six squads that can all advance and charge by picking White Scars is delightful. But that HAS to be run as a Brigade, because the Greyshield trait only works for units in the same detachment. If it's just for CP, a Brigade is kind of a trap for Marines; you're paying at least 111 points in fast attack tax (plus maybe some elite/heavy support filler) for only +1CP over battalion/battalion/vanguard.

 

I'd love to fill those fast attack slots with Suppressors or plasma Inceptors, but they're just not that good for their point cost currently, and expensive enough that it's hard to fit into 2000.

 

That said, I'm actually not feeling a huge amount of CP pressure. With two battalions, I'm starting the game at ~10CP, and usually that's enough to last a while. It varies a lot by list though. I can spend 7CP in one turn on just a squad of VVets charging out of an LRC (Emperor's Will, Shock And Awe, fight twice, Tenacious Assault), but in other games I'm sometimes sitting on 5CP in turn 3 wondering what to even use them for. I'm not running a Sword Brethren detachment though; I've mostly given up on that. 4CP for a warlord trait and one use of Suffer Not isn't worth it to me.

[Medjugorje]

We are now on a different topic now but what CPs are the most important ones for us. I would say devot push is a thing i always use but is there any other usage for our CPs?

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Locking people in combat is pretty vital, it's a perfect pairing for a post-devout push 6 inch consolidation.