Devout push

[Medjugorje]

to this day i always build my list on the Vigilus Detachment. But it comes to my mind that its often simply not worth it.

[Hymnblade]

We are now on a different topic now but what CPs are the most important ones for us. I would say devot push is a thing i always use but is there any other usage for our CPs?

I've found Devout Push pretty situational, especially if I don't have a Canticle chaplain to boost it to 6". I most consistently use it with the Impulsor combo.

 

I use The Emperor's Will at least once in almost every game, and Tenacious Assault too unless the enemy already wants to be in melee with me, although I don't often get two great opportunities to lock something up. Fighting twice and combat interrupts are also pretty common. Transhuman Physiology is great if I'm running a big squad of something expensive. After those, a long list of more situational stuff. In terms of pregame, I typically go for the Breviary, the Shroud, and maybe one more relic, plus a Master of Sanctity or Master of the Forge. Overall I'm spending about 4CP pregame.

 

My feeling on the Vigilus detachment is that it costs 1CP for the detachment and 2CP for Suffer Not, when I could just spend the same 3CP to fight twice and get about the same damage boost, except with more flexibility (because Honour The Chapter isn't spent pregame, and it's not keyword-locked). You can stack Suffer Not with fighting twice to really kill something dead, but now you're blowing 6CP on one round of combat, and at that point I feel like I should have just brought a killier unit in the first place rather than trying so hard to buff up Company Veterans or a single Captain.

Edited May 19, 2020 by Hymnblade

[_luca_93]

I feel we're going out of topic.

 

BUT

 

This exactly topic, is interesting almost everyone of us : me included.

 

What if, before admins close this post, we continue this discussion in the previous Medjugorje post ?

to this day i always build my list on the Vigilus Detachment. But it comes to my mind that its often simply not worth it.

Same thought, after a pair of match.

[_luca_93]

 

We are now on a different topic now but what CPs are the most important ones for us. I would say devot push is a thing i always use but is there any other usage for our CPs?

I've found Devout Push pretty situational, especially if I don't have a Canticle chaplain to boost it to 6". I most consistently use it with the Impulsor combo. Are you sure, can we boost Devout push? Usually there's a little note at the end of Litanies, or boost like the Helbrecht's trait.

 

I use The Emperor's Will at least once in almost every game, Me too and Tenacious Assault too unless the enemy already wants to be in melee with me, although I don't often get two great opportunities to lock something up Tenacious assault isn't strong, for the chance to kill someone, but, to preserve and save troops : just imagine, multi charge, someone of the enemy survive, Tenacious assault kick in, your model cannot be targeted! . Fighting twice and combat interrupts are also pretty common. Fighting twice must be a game changer, 3CP is a huge points spent. Transhuman Physiology is great if I'm running a big squad of something expensive. Use it almost every match, on my Aggressor.  After those, a long list of more situational stuff. In terms of pregame, I typically go for the Breviary, the Shroud, and maybe one more relic, plus a Master of Sanctity or Master of the Forge. Overall I'm spending about 4CP pregame. I finally reach the spent of two points, pregame : Master of sanctity with Wise orator trait ; Hero of the chapter for chaplain ; Aurilian shrod (free) ; Crusader's Helm ( 1 cp ).

 

My feeling on the Vigilus detachment too much points, imho doesn't worth it. is that it costs 1CP for the detachment and 2CP for Suffer Not, when I could just spend the same 3CP to fight twice and get about the same damage boost, except with more flexibility (because Honour The Chapter isn't spent pregame, and it's not keyword-locked). You can stack Suffer Not with fighting twice to really kill something dead, but now you're blowing 6CP on one round of combat, and at that point I feel like I should have just brought a killier unit in the first place rather than trying so hard to buff up Company Veterans or a single Captain.

 

Edited May 19, 2020 by varg_vikernes

[Hymnblade]

Tenacious Assault is absolutely golden for preventing you from being shot, and occasionally for preventing that unit from shooting. It's especially good at protecting characters, who remain untargetable and there's nothing they can do about it.

 

Canticle of Hate lets you pile in 6", and Devout Push is a pile-in, so they definitely interact.

[_luca_93]

Tenacious Assault is absolutely golden for preventing you from being shot, and occasionally for preventing that unit from shooting. It's especially good at protecting characters, who remain untargetable and there's nothing they can do about it.

 

Canticle of Hate lets you pile in 6", and Devout Push is a pile-in, so they definitely interact.

Oh.

 

Well.

 

That's big. ahahahahahhaha

 

Canticle of hate doesn't work if you have to increase a yet increased pile in value.

 

Eh. Eh. ehehehhehe.

Edited May 19, 2020 by varg_vikernes

[Link2edition]

You absolutely can make a Templar list in a brigade that feels very templar. Mine is based around an orbital assault and it has 13cp. Every game devolves into a close combat mess as God Emperor intended. I am glad to see people finally figuring out what devout push does.

(list is posted here)
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/362545-planetfall-templar-2k-updated-519/?p=5490483

Edited May 19, 2020 by Link2edition

[_luca_93]

SImply to return back In Topic.

 

How can we use Canticle of hate and Devout push? 6" pile in... it's tasty.

 

Scout bike squad?
 

And?

[Link2edition]

I see devout push as more of a target of opportunity thing. I wouldn't count on it to keep something in combat, but I would use it to lock something down if I saw the chance. Certainly wouldn't build around it.

[Medjugorje]

 

Tenacious Assault is absolutely golden for preventing you from being shot, and occasionally for preventing that unit from shooting. It's especially good at protecting characters, who remain untargetable and there's nothing they can do about it.

 

Canticle of Hate lets you pile in 6", and Devout Push is a pile-in, so they definitely interact.

Oh.

 

Well.

 

That's big. ahahahahahhaha

 

Canticle of hate doesn't work if you have to increase a yet increased pile in value.

 

Eh. Eh. ehehehhehe.

 

please look at the start of this topic. Devot push is not a 6" pile in. Its a EXTRA pile in. So far you can have summary of 12" pile in.

I see devout push as more of a target of opportunity thing. I wouldn't count on it to keep something in combat, but I would use it to lock something down if I saw the chance. Certainly wouldn't build around it.

just a impulsor with a intercessor squad and thats the build^^

[Sword Brother Adelard]

No I think he's right. Canticle interacts with Devout Push as far as I can see, up to 6" total. That's big.

[_luca_93]

Uhm on Facebook community, they are telling me Canticle and push, doesnt stack.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Yeah, I see that. I don't think any of them are right. 

Devout push simply grants an opportunity to make a pile in, where one didn't exist before. It doesn't increase the distance of an existing pile in. Therefore there is nothing for the exclusion in canticle to attach to.

[_luca_93]

Uhm... But.

 

Maybe, now im just wondering. Canticle refers to the whole ability. So Push, provides yes, an extra pile in, but also an increased Consolidation movement. So maybe, it can be considered an ability who increase a movement due to increased Consolidation movement.

[Hymnblade]

Canticle and Devout Push both increase consolidate distance. That part doesn't stack, as Canticle's own text says. If you have both, you still consolidate 6", not 9".

 

But there's nothing to stack for the pile-in part. Devout Push tells you to pile in, Canticle lets you pile in 6". That's not two different buffs to the same thing, it's one buff affecting one action.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Agreed. 

So, if the Chaplain is inspiring, you can pile in 6", then consolidate 6", that would be quite surprising for your opponent, almost reminds me of the good old days of failing morale across the table!

[_luca_93]

If is it rule - approved...

 

 

That's :cuss good guys!

Edited May 20, 2020 by Marshal Mattias

[_luca_93]

Seriously guys, it means, units like Bike scout squad have a treat range of 28". Edited May 19, 2020 by varg_vikernes

[Hymnblade]

Yeah, using to tag things in combat is pretty fun. A squad disembarking from an Impulsor can tag things about 30" away too.

 

I've tried using it to scoot Assault Centurions 6" in each fight phase and overcome their slow movement, but unless you have the perfect terrain to keep them hidden along the way, this doesn't work super well.

[Link2edition]

I like using it more for the consolidate than anything.

Whats more fun than having your incursors mulch an infantry screen? Having them consolidate into the gun-line hiding behind that screen.

BT Thrive on chaining combats together.

[Brother Kraskor]

So... to check I've got my head around this!

 

 

1) At the start of the Fight phase (can be enemy turn!), your unit moves 3" (or 6" if Canticled) toward the nearest enemy unit - the 'pile-in' move.

 

1a) If this brings you within 1" of an enemy, happy days, you're in combat. You have bypassed Overwatch, and may even have Advanced previously, as both considerations are made in the Charge phase - which you have circumvented. You can now fight (but no charge bonus). 

 

1b) If this does not bring you within 1" of an enemy, you are chilling out until the end of the Fight phase.

 

 

2) At the end of the Fight phase, you now consolidate 6" toward the nearest enemy unit.

 

2a) If this now brings you within 1", you are 'in combat' but the Fight phase is over. So you have a couple of options:

 

- Defensive: Keep the fight going. If you Pushed in your own turn, Tenacious Assault will keep you locked in and 'safe' come the enemy turn. If you Pushed in the enemy turn, well done! No 2CP tax, just sit back and wait. 

 

- Offensive: Fight right away. Spend 3CP on Honour the Chapter. This means that you will get to fight - but unless the enemy uses a similar stratagem he will not fight back!

 

2b) You are still not within 1" of an enemy. You'd better have claimed a crucial objective...

 

 

Have I read this right? 

[Hymnblade]

Step 2) does not happen. The stratagem specifically tells you to pile in, but you don't get a full fight sequence unless you can actually fight. So you can consolidate 6" if you get to consolidate at all, but you don't get a special bonus consolidate move at end of phase.

[Medjugorje]

No I think he's right. Canticle interacts with Devout Push as far as I can see, up to 6" total. That's big.

why? You have an 6" pile in before at the start of the fight phase and one 6" pile when you activate that unit. So its 12" total.

 

 

Canticle and Devout Push both increase consolidate distance. That part doesn't stack, as Canticle's own text says. If you have both, you still consolidate 6", not 9".

 

But there's nothing to stack for the pile-in part. Devout Push tells you to pile in, Canticle lets you pile in 6". That's not two different buffs to the same thing, it's one buff affecting one action.

thats correct. But with devot push you can make a pile in immediately AND a pile in if you choose the unit to fight with.

 

 

Uhm on Facebook community, they are telling me Canticle and push, doesnt stack.

to be honest. In Facebook groups there are so many people with absolutly no knowledge. Sometimes i am between confused and angry because of so much people who talk so much rubbish.

 

 

Step 2) does not happen. The stratagem specifically tells you to pile in, but you don't get a full fight sequence unless you can actually fight. So you can consolidate 6" if you get to consolidate at all, but you don't get a special bonus consolidate move at end of phase.

 

Thats not correct too. You are in 1" and can be chosen to fight with. Step 2 is in fact step 3. And the new introduced Step 2 must be:

 

- now you can activate your unit as normal  but remember the enemy maybe can fight first because you dont have charged and so you dont get the bonus of +1 A and not the bonus to fight first

 

 

 

So... to check I've got my head around this!

 

 

1) At the start of the Fight phase (can be enemy turn!), your unit moves 3" (or 6" if Canticled) toward the nearest enemy unit - the 'pile-in' move.

 

1a) If this brings you within 1" of an enemy, happy days, you're in combat. You have bypassed Overwatch, and may even have Advanced previously, as both considerations are made in the Charge phase - which you have circumvented. You can now fight (but no charge bonus). 

 

1b) If this does not bring you within 1" of an enemy, you are chilling out until the end of the Fight phase.

 

 

2) At the end of the Fight phase, you now consolidate 6" toward the nearest enemy unit.

 

2a) If this now brings you within 1", you are 'in combat' but the Fight phase is over. So you have a couple of options:

 

- Defensive: Keep the fight going. If you Pushed in your own turn, Tenacious Assault will keep you locked in and 'safe' come the enemy turn. If you Pushed in the enemy turn, well done! No 2CP tax, just sit back and wait. 

 

- Offensive: Fight right away. Spend 3CP on Honour the Chapter. This means that you will get to fight - but unless the enemy uses a similar stratagem he will not fight back!

 

2b) You are still not within 1" of an enemy. You'd better have claimed a crucial objective...

 

 

Have I read this right? 

yes - but between step 1 and 2 there is the complete fight phase where you have to activate your unit. The first pile in (devot push) is not an activation - its just an additional pile in.

Edited May 20, 2020 by Medjugorje

[Medjugorje]

sry - mistake 

Edited May 20, 2020 by Medjugorje

[Medjugorje]

sry - mistake 

Edited May 20, 2020 by Medjugorje