Josh Reynolds no longer works for BL

[Ishagu]

I don't agree with him posting a list of rejected ideas, but I'll say that I do enjoy his work.

 

His recent novel; Apocalypse, is very good. The plot has interesting characters and a look into the Ecclesiarchy on a prosperous Cardinal world. Worth a read.

[Dagoth Ur]

Good lord, what absolute robbery that list represents. A crying shame - Reynolds' work is genuinely great to read. I will definitely be keeping open tabs on his future work.

[b1soul]

The list of rejected ideas is within his freedom to post. Those are his ideas. He made no accusations about any abuse or "wrongful" rejection. He even goes out of his way to say they were probably rejected for justifiable reasons at the time.

I would add that if he probably wouldn't be posting rejected ideas if they were covered by a relevant NDA

[cheywood]

The list of rejected ideas is within his freedom to post. Those are his ideas. He made no accusations about any abuse or "wrongful" rejection. He even goes out of his way to say they were probably rejected for justifiable reasons at the time.

I would add that if he probably wouldn't be posting rejected ideas if they were covered by a relevant NDA

I’ll add I think the writing’s been on the wall for a while regarding Josh leaving and that list is likely a result of him having no reason to preserve his pitches for future cannibalization and wanting to have some fun. I don’t see how it’s disrespectful of BL to share story ideas they don’t want.

[mc warhammer]

. I don’t see how it’s disrespectful of BL to share story ideas they don’t want.

 

it's straight up not. this isn't assange and wikileaks, it's his ideas and suggestions. these are the ones he batted for and didn't get. the ones he did are called his novels.

[mc warhammer]

Josh is not my favourite BL authour, but he's head and shoulders above Thorpe (I don't like anything written by him), Kyme (I find Fall of Damnos decent, everything else is bad), and Swallow (terrible IMO).

He's also consistently more readable than Haley and Annandale...Josh's phoned-in stuff is on a level with some of their best

 

I don't know how they could bring Swallow back for the dross that was Buried Dagger and let Annandale do something as tangential as Damnation of Pythos without giving Josh a proper HH novel...maybe Josh wasn't interested in HH? Why was he never brought into the inner circle? Guess we'll never know.

 

Who at BL decides the viability of pitches? Is it Kyme's editorial team?

 

Major loss for BL. I'd take Josh over any number of the mediocre-to-bad BL regulars anyday.

ugh "phoned in"

 

as for the "inner circle", it's something i couldn't help but wonder too. thorpe was supportive on that twitter thread. adb, who usually froths when speaking about other authors and his relationship with them was civil about josh but didn't appear to be as intimately connected (in the one and only time i've seen him mention josh, which probably has very little weight or evidence).

Edited May 17, 2020 by mc warhammer

[Scammel]

Re: The List - His ideas, his freedom to post, there may be lessons to learn about pitching and rejections in there... but give the guy some credit, it's clearly an antagonistic move. It's very uncharitable to suggest that this clever man doesn't believe an extensive Twitter thread about (very cool) ideas that editors snuffed out won't ruffle feathers on forums such as this.

 

I've somehow managed to miss having read anything by Reynolds, and the general consensus is that's a mistake I'll have to rectify. Disappointing to lean of BL dysfunction behind the scenes, and this is something the company will have to grapple with as it grows larger than a coupe of sheds in Nottingham.

[Beren]

I honestly don't believe there's anything remotely malicious about it. It's just a fun little thing that has stuff that is clearly never going to completed now, so we might as well see it. It's the same concept as much of the art books that get made for films, where you see dozens of different concept arts for things that got taken in different directions or dropped entirely. What's the point in having them sit in a vault for all eternity?

[b1soul]

"Phoned-in" as in that's what I heard happened with his Apocalypse novel...he had to write super fast in a very short space of time. Not saying all his stuff is phoned in or rushed

 

...I think at most his posting of the list is mildly, very mildly antagonistic

[Knockagh]

"Phoned-in" as in that's what I heard happened with his Apocalypse novel...he had to write super fast in a very short space of time. Not saying all his stuff is phoned in or rushed

 

...I think at most his posting of the list is mildly, very mildly antagonistic

He was amazingly blunt and vocal about not wanting to write Apocalypse. A book I didn’t buy because it’s the type of book I can’t stand. I went over to twitter hate land and took a peak at the thread and sorry folks but this I believe was a rather petty swipe at GW. Good author or not I would have given him his marching orders. Don’t try to make a fool out of your customer, it never ends well. Anyone in business knows this it’s a basic principle.

If he is good enough he will swim without GW

[b1soul]

Yeah...but I can't imagine this (posting the list) would damage BL in any way whatsoever. So if it's a swipe, it's a harmless swipe. This business with the list doesn't even rise to the level of complaining or "whining" about BL in front of readers.

 

Are you referring to more pointed words in another Twitter thread about Apocalypse? Haven't seen that.

[mc warhammer]

you'd think that if it were a problem, then thorpe wouldn't be replying encouragingly in the twitter thread. but maybe thorpe is secretly interested in games workshop insurrection?

 

"don't make a fool out of your customer" i suppose is a rule, but i don't see how it's applicable here. maybe it does hurt BL somehow that i'm unaware of? or the customer in some way. i'm open to listening to how.

 

adb has talked about his pitch to kill lorgar and at length on discussions and disagreements in IP meetings. we know he and dan went in batting for sangy to have black hair amongst many other things (which i wish i could remember now). maybe adb is also trying to give BL the middle finger?

 

we have nick cave and russell crowe's insane gladiator sequel pitch. i can name a dozen comic book movie pitches that never made it to script level. i don't think it would be a stretch to find 100 comic book pitches online either. dr who pitches. they're just pitches.

 

if anything, sharing the pitches online only hurts reynolds in the way that it seems to me he's saying, "i give up. no use holding on to these anymore 'cos they'll never see the light of day. may as well do something with them. tweet tweet".

Edited May 17, 2020 by mc warhammer

[mc warhammer]

Yeah...but I can't imagine this (posting the list) would damage BL in any way whatsoever. So if it's a swipe, it's a harmless swipe. This business with the list doesn't even rise to the level of complaining or "whining" about BL in front of readers.

 

Are you referring to more pointed words in another Twitter thread about Apocalypse? Haven't seen that.

 

 

"Phoned-in" as in that's what I heard happened with his Apocalypse novel...he had to write super fast in a very short space of time. Not saying all his stuff is phoned in or rushed

 

...I think at most his posting of the list is mildly, very mildly antagonistic

we use phoned in at work all the time (i believe my industry coined the phrase?), so it means something very specific to me.

 

it's one of those things like "ironic" or "fridging" that seems to be taking on some vague new meaning on the internet tho, so ...

[Knockagh]

Just my opinion from reading it. Could be wrong, that’s happened a few times in life!

Comes across to me as being a bit of a smartass.

 

Always remember a neighbour who had to get rid of his farm hand telling me he was advertising for

 

‘smart man required, last man too smart.’

 

The guy was always telling him he was wrong and he should do it his way. Reynolds comes across kind of like that.

 

If you look back in B&Cs Apocalypse thread you will see all the references to Reynolds dislike for the book in it. Again BL could have accused him of tanking his own book. Which when you say it’s not the book you wanted to write and you threw it together in a few weeks it does sound like he just took his writing fee and didn’t worry about sales. I certainly wasn’t even going to give the book a chance after that.

[mc warhammer]

i guess that's a difference of approach. whether an author tells me his book is his magnum opus or his most shameful act which he can only bare to squint at between his fingers under his bed sheets...doesn't really bother me, personally. if the book is good, it's good. if it's not, it's not.

 

are we talking about something he said on B&C or the tweets about his rejected pitches? i'm confused. and therefore, won't be hired by your neighbour as his farm hand. or maaaaybe i will be...

[b1soul]

I think BL would have a legit concern about an author who has possibly damaged the sales of his own BL novel. Agreed.

 

The pitch-list affair could be some passive-aggressive complaining but is relatively harmless.

 

Frankly, Josh isn't the only BL authour who seems to have a "healthy ego" so to speak

[Knockagh]

He never got a replacement, no one could work for that grumpy old brute

[mc warhammer]

haha, well maybe josh is looking for a new gig?

I think BL would have a legit concern about an author who has possibly damaged the sales of his own BL novel. Agreed.

The pitch-list affair could be some passive-aggressive complaining but is relatively harmless.

Frankly, Josh isn't the only BL authour who seems to have a "healthy ego" so to speak

or any artist really.

 

can anyone link me the apocalypse reynold's quotes?

 

personally, i'd treat that and the pitch list as two different things.

[b1soul]

Josh is a loss for sure. I can say that based on Palatine Phoenix alone. Hope he gets a decent gig.

 

A bit of an aside, what happened to McNiven?

[Knockagh]

haha, well maybe josh is looking for a new gig?

 

 

I think BL would have a legit concern about an author who has possibly damaged the sales of his own BL novel. Agreed.

 

The pitch-list affair could be some passive-aggressive complaining but is relatively harmless.

 

Frankly, Josh isn't the only BL authour who seems to have a "healthy ego" so to speak

or any artist really.

 

can anyone link me the apocalypse reynold's quotes?

 

personally, i'd treat that and the pitch list as two different things.

It was chatted about and referenced in the apocalypse thread on here

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/356894-space-marine-conquest-apocalypse/

[mc warhammer]

yeah, i do remember that thread. i just never saw any direct quotes other than he said he worked really really hard on it?

[byrd9999]

His Track of Words interview comes across as bitter and snarky, and he doesn't do a good job of selling the book.

 

If I were a BL editor, I would have had a few words with him after this about how to conduct himself if he wants to keep writing for BL (although I suspect his break from BL had occurred before this, hence the no-sh!ts-given attitude).

 

https://www.trackofwords.com/2019/06/29/rapid-fire-josh-reynolds-talks-apocalypse/

[Knockagh]

He also said he only wrote it because all his other ideas were shot down. He said the book was only to ‘ meant to fill out space on a rack‘

Maybe there's something wrong with me, but that’s not a particularly good sales pitch in my funny old brain

[mc warhammer]

yeah, just found it myself but thanks for the link. i had read that one after all, and nothing really stuck with me so i'd forgotten it. other than the "my ideas keep getting shot down so i improvised this on the fly"...which is on the snark side...but also...sounds like that's what happened?

 

i've just done a speed read of 4 other interviews he's given (not all about games workshop properties)...they've all got a similar pithy sarccy sense of humour. if anything, what stands out most in the track of words interview is how short his answers are, which does give me an unenthused vibe.

 

i can't really speculate on what might have happened behind the scenes, not my bag or my place. but as someone who has had to do press junkets because...well, because you have to...there are some days where you just don't have it in you.

[b1soul]

Was the rack comment on Twitter?

 

I think the ToW interview was a lot shorter than typical. The exchanges below suggest he's not too enthused through what is unsaid.

 

ToW: Why this story? Of all the possible stories you could have written about these characters, what made you go for this one?

 

JR: All my other ideas were shot down, so I improvised this one on the fly.

 

ToW: What do you find the challenges are in writing large-scale Space Marine-led stories like this?

 

JR: I often forget that Space Marines don’t have a sense of humour. Trips me up every time.