Dawn of Fire - the series

[Sothalor]

I wonder who the other authors are. Haley presumably is going to write 2 or 3 books given his rapid pace, and at 9 novels total I’m going to prematurely count out ADB/Abnett/Wraight given they’ve got Heresy novels and their own series to work on in the next few years. So let’s assume something like 5-6 authors total, with a few doing multiple books. Here’s my wildly incorrect guess:

 

Guy Haley

Gav Thorpe

Justin D Hill

Guy Haley

David Annandale

John French

Gav Thorpe

Andy Clark

Guy Haley

 

Maybe toss Rachel Harrison into the mix? She's got experience writing Guard and Sisters; it'd be a nice opportunity to have some of their stories during this era. 

[cheywood]

 

 

I wonder who the other authors are. Haley presumably is going to write 2 or 3 books given his rapid pace, and at 9 novels total I’m going to prematurely count out ADB/Abnett/Wraight given they’ve got Heresy novels and their own series to work on in the next few years. So let’s assume something like 5-6 authors total, with a few doing multiple books. Here’s my wildly incorrect guess:

 

Guy Haley

Gav Thorpe

Justin D Hill

Guy Haley

David Annandale

John French

Gav Thorpe

Andy Clark

Guy Haley

Maybe toss Rachel Harrison into the mix? She's got experience writing Guard and Sisters; it'd be a nice opportunity to have some of their stories during this era.

I’d be very happy to see Harrison involved and some non-Marine focused novels. My list wasn’t so much who I want to write the series as much as it was who might be available, has experience writing Marines and could work well with the studio. Guymer, St. Martin, and Phil Kelly are other candidates for instance.

[Sothalor]

Mmm, I certainly hope writing Marines is not a prerequisite for this, but... BL will BL.

 

I think Harrison fits your other criteria nicely, though; she seems available - admittedly, keyword being seems - I have no clairvoyant access to Black Library's publishing schedule. Furthermore, she already seems to be involved with the studio in some capacity beyond her published works. Both Abnett and ADB have specifically given her shout-outs in their acknowledgments in The Magos and Spear of the Emperor, respectively. 

 

 

And while we're on the wild speculation train, I wonder if this could be a chance to have particular authors bring their "niches"/established characters and works to Dawn of Fire as a sort of giant crossover/connect all the things for the new edition thing. Hill's post-Fall of Cadia Cadians, for instance, seem like they could slot into an expansion of the Indomitus Crusade era fairly easily. French's Horusian Wars would also fit the timeframe. Annandale's Crowe series, Thorpe's Ynnari, Clark's Celestine/Imperial Knights - they could all be used to bulk out this period and expand the narrative POVs.

 

Mind you, I'm not saying that they necessarily will or should do such a thing - it does have the effect of making the setting feel smaller if all the named characters somehow run into each other. I just think it could be a way to maybe hasten the overall publication schedule by integrating existing characters and storylines.

[cheywood]

Mmm, I certainly hope writing Marines is not a prerequisite for this, but... BL will BL.

 

I think Harrison fits your other criteria nicely, though; she seems available - admittedly, keyword being seems - I have no clairvoyant access to Black Library's publishing schedule. Furthermore, she already seems to be involved with the studio in some capacity beyond her published works. Both Abnett and ADB have specifically given her shout-outs in their acknowledgments in The Magos and Spear of the Emperor, respectively.

 

 

And while we're on the wild speculation train, I wonder if this could be a chance to have particular authors bring their "niches"/established characters and works to Dawn of Fire as a sort of giant crossover/connect all the things for the new edition thing. Hill's post-Fall of Cadia Cadians, for instance, seem like they could slot into an expansion of the Indomitus Crusade era fairly easily. French's Horusian Wars would also fit the timeframe. Annandale's Crowe series, Thorpe's Ynnari, Clark's Celestine/Imperial Knights - they could all be used to bulk out this period and expand the narrative POVs.

 

Mind you, I'm not saying that they necessarily will or should do such a thing - it does have the effect of making the setting feel smaller if all the named characters somehow run into each other. I just think it could be a way to maybe hasten the overall publication schedule by integrating existing characters and storylines.

Yeah I think Harrison would work well. She’s got a blood angels novella that’s emotionally affecting like her other work. It portrays experienced veterans as overly naive, which is a pet peeve of mine, but the writing’s still of high quality.

 

I don’t think she has any direct involvement in the studio though. Those shoutouts are because she’s BL’s art director.

 

In terms of connecting Dawn of Fire to existing series I expect to see small references mostly. If you’re advertising a brand new series that tells a story central to the lore the last thing you want is people feeling like they need to read a dozen books just to catch up.

[DukeLeto69]

Rachel Harrison is the art buyer for GW/BL so another member of staff given the chance to write fiction. Not complaining because her work is excellent.

 

Edit: just saw @cheywood said same thing

Edited June 3, 2020 by DukeLeto69

[JH79]

Not sure if this has already been mentioned but Avenging Son is up for pre-order on Amazon.

• Paperback: 248 pages
• Publisher: Games Workshop (20 Aug. 2020)
• Language: English
• ISBN-10: 1789991307
• ISBN-13: 978-1789991307
• Product Dimensions: 13 x 19.8 cm

[DukeLeto69]

248 pages! So a “short” novel!

[cheywood]

248 pages! So a “short” novel!

Wow, that is quite short. Especially so for a series billed as a thematic successor to the Heresy, which has been filled with longer novels. I’m not a fan of short novels where big series are involved, feels like a way to sell less content for the same price.

[Fire Golem]

 

248 pages! So a “short” novel!

Wow, that is quite short. Especially so for a series billed as a thematic successor to the Heresy, which has been filled with longer novels. I’m not a fan of short novels where big series are involved, feels like a way to sell less content for the same price.

 

I’m not a fan of novels being longer than they need to be for the sake of it, either. 

[cheywood]

 

 

 

248 pages! So a “short” novel!

Wow, that is quite short. Especially so for a series billed as a thematic successor to the Heresy, which has been filled with longer novels. I’m not a fan of short novels where big series are involved, feels like a way to sell less content for the same price.

I’m not a fan of novels being longer than they need to be for the sake of it, either.

That’s fair. I don’t think novels need to be a specific length by any means. The primarch novels and the various horror books are all relatively short and don’t suffer for it, but putting out a connected series composed of 9 short novels instead of 6-7 conventional novels can be a great way to earn more money for the same amount of content.

 

Like so much of life I think it depends on the execution. The Beast Arises is a good example of this. The first few books did good work with the short novel format. They told distinct stories that wouldn’t have worked if lumped together into a single novel while each spending a bit of time progressing the overarching narrative. By the time you reach the middle of the series that falls apart. The middle and latter novels (excepting the last book) feel like they could’ve been combined into longer books without any issue. Those latter novels are largely why I’m skeptical of this series being on the short side, though I can’t truly pass judgement without reading the series of course.

Edited June 4, 2020 by cheywood

[Xisor]

Like so much of life I think it depends on the execution. The Beast Arises is a good example of this. The first few books did good work with the short novel format. They told distinct stories that wouldn’t have worked if lumped together into a single novel while each spending a bit of time progressing the overarching narrative. By the time you reach the middle of the series that falls apart. The middle and latter novels (excepting the last book) feel like they could’ve been combined into longer books without any issue. Those latter novels are largely why I’m skeptical of this series being on the short side, though I can’t truly pass judgement without reading the series of course.

 

We do know that TBA was an odd case.

 

I Am Slaughter was written, what, 2011? i don't know when The Emperor Expects was started, but I don't imagine that the chain meant that the final books were written with the coherent oversight of the earlier ones.

 

Not to mention that the whole thing was shelved for an indeterminate period in the middle which saw sweeping changes at BL and GW more widely. 

 

(So much so that Abnett didn't write for them for a while.)

 

That's not to say that the series wasn't viable, but that surely even if the project was re-run exactly as it was originally intended, the execution would be radically different - there wouldn't be a mad massive gap that surely evaporated who knows how much enthusiasm, energy and goodwill, and almost certainly: they'd know a bit more about the difficulties of coordinating this sort of thing.

 

I doubt much of it has to do with the pure idea of writing 200-page novels leading into one another, between multiple authors.

 

Not to mention, I doubt anyone strictly intended that two of the later books in the series would (unwittingly?) basically re-tread the exact same sweeping plot points of the book they're next to.

 

I imagine, in fact, that that was surely due to giving the same "what happened before" summary to both authors; so they both basically told 'what happens next' without realising it'd already been told? I never asked anyone involved, but that's surely the simplest explanation? By the time the manuscripts come in, it's too late to do a big rewrite, and they're different enough that they could be tweaked to fit. Ish.

 

I'd be shocked if the second author knew they were re-telling it beat-for-beat and thought it was a good idea...

 

I've been wrong before, though.

 

Again, I'm not sure any of that's a necessary result of doing a twelve-short-novel-series in quick succession.

[byrd9999]

If these are gonna be 250 pages, at £12.99 for the hardback edition, like the Primarchs series, then that's alright by me.

 

Or if they're gonna be £18 hardbacks, then at least release the £8.99 paperback at the same time.

 

And if they are tightly-plotted, sometimes-connected novels with interesting new and familiar characters, focusing on the micro- and macro- environments of the galaxy at the time of Guilliman's return/Cicatrix Maledictum opening/Abaddon's return, then that's alright by me too.

 

And if they decide to write a fuller account of the Wrath of Magnus and the reunion of Magnus and Ahriman* (as long as it's not written by McNeill), then that would be the icing on the cake.

 

*please please please Chris Wraight please please please

[cheywood]

 

Like so much of life I think it depends on the execution. The Beast Arises is a good example of this. The first few books did good work with the short novel format. They told distinct stories that wouldn’t have worked if lumped together into a single novel while each spending a bit of time progressing the overarching narrative. By the time you reach the middle of the series that falls apart. The middle and latter novels (excepting the last book) feel like they could’ve been combined into longer books without any issue. Those latter novels are largely why I’m skeptical of this series being on the short side, though I can’t truly pass judgement without reading the series of course.

 

We do know that TBA was an odd case.

 

I Am Slaughter was written, what, 2011? i don't know when The Emperor Expects was started, but I don't imagine that the chain meant that the final books were written with the coherent oversight of the earlier ones.

 

Not to mention that the whole thing was shelved for an indeterminate period in the middle which saw sweeping changes at BL and GW more widely.

 

(So much so that Abnett didn't write for them for a while.)

 

That's not to say that the series wasn't viable, but that surely even if the project was re-run exactly as it was originally intended, the execution would be radically different - there wouldn't be a mad massive gap that surely evaporated who knows how much enthusiasm, energy and goodwill, and almost certainly: they'd know a bit more about the difficulties of coordinating this sort of thing.

 

I doubt much of it has to do with the pure idea of writing 200-page novels leading into one another, between multiple authors.

 

Not to mention, I doubt anyone strictly intended that two of the later books in the series would (unwittingly?) basically re-tread the exact same sweeping plot points of the book they're next to.

 

I imagine, in fact, that that was surely due to giving the same "what happened before" summary to both authors; so they both basically told 'what happens next' without realising it'd already been told? I never asked anyone involved, but that's surely the simplest explanation? By the time the manuscripts come in, it's too late to do a big rewrite, and they're different enough that they could be tweaked to fit. Ish.

 

I'd be shocked if the second author knew they were re-telling it beat-for-beat and thought it was a good idea...

 

I've been wrong before, though.

 

Again, I'm not sure any of that's a necessary result of doing a twelve-short-novel-series in quick succession.

Forgive me if I’m misunderstanding you, but I feel like you might be misunderstanding me. Or I’ve explained myself poorly, in which case my apologies.

 

I don’t think connected, multi-author, short novel series (man that’s a mouthful) are inherently bad or that The Beast Arises was problematic solely because of its length (it obviously had a lot of logistical issues relating to the state of BL at the time). What I do believe is that there’s more challenge logistically in such series because you need to communicate with more authors and manage continuity/quality across more books. BL historically has seemed to struggle with that a little, so I’d be more confident in a more condensed series.

 

I probably should’ve said this to begin with, but I do think Dawn of Fire can also be done well and take advantage of the opportunities shorter novels offer. I’d love to see seven or eight stories of major moments from the beginning of the Crusade, treating each as a separate endeavor with connecting threads and shared characters that ends with a unifying novel or two linking up seemingly disparate events. That would be a fantastic way to showcase the nature of a crusade that moves without a specific target in sight and one that takes advantage of the greater volume of novels to showcase the Indomitus Crusade more broadly than would be expected of 5-6 longer novels.

Edited June 4, 2020 by cheywood

[b1soul]

I Am Slaughter was written in 2011? Interesting...that was before Pariah was written, yes?

[Bobss]

I'm pretty sure it dropped in 2015 or even early 2016 or something, so that would mean being written in 2014/2015 I guess - unless of course it was written in 2011 as a point of interest

Edited June 5, 2020 by Bobss

[Knockagh]

Very few long novels (over the 350ish page mark) couldn’t do with a good trimming. BL produce books at volume, I would rather I could read a book a week and keep up than munch through 500 pages. 250 to 300 is a perfect length. Unless it’s saturnine or something spectacular. Otherwise, write a trilogy and stretch it out properly

[theSpirea]

248 pages, 5.1x7.8 size paperback can range from 55K to 75K words, I'm fine with that. Recently, I re-read Fulgrim (512 pages, 133K words) and Primarch Fulgrim (208 pages, 60K words) and I got more from the Primarch novel. One third of the McNeill's novel was just re-telling the previous books, he even copy-pasted whole sections; no wonder it ended up 500+ pages long.

 

I just hope it's going to be priced as Horror/Primarch novels.

[DarkChaplain]

I Am Slaughter being that early is in line with what I've heard about the series as well. It was planned YEARS beforehand, and then put on hold indefinitely during the dark age of GW. The bulk of the series was written on fairly short notice, plans were changed even after publishing had already begun with the monthly schedule, and I believe I also heard an author state that books were written in batches of 3, in parallel, with rather little author interaction.

 

Nothing I've glanced from interviews or conversations with authors has made The Beast Arises appear like anything but a nightmare

[DukeLeto69]

I can categorically say that Gav Thorpe wrote The Emperor Protects (TBA book 3) in summer 2013 (published in 2016).

 

Why? Cos I just asked him on Twitter, good man that he is.

 

@DC yep heard pretty much the same. So...

 

Hopefully GW/BL learned lessons and are applying those to SoT and DoF (clear with former they did/are):

 

- Allow time between books so next author to pick up baton knows what went down before!

 

- Keep studio interference in fiction process to a minimum!

 

- Once a brief/pitch is agreed with an author let them deliver the work they were commissioned for and don’t change the brief to promote new shiny kit/faction!

[DukeLeto69]

 

 

 

248 pages! So a “short” novel!

Wow, that is quite short. Especially so for a series billed as a thematic successor to the Heresy, which has been filled with longer novels. I’m not a fan of short novels where big series are involved, feels like a way to sell less content for the same price.

I’m not a fan of novels being longer than they need to be for the sake of it, either.

I agree. No novel should be padded to hit word count (some very clearly are) and (ahem) size is no indicator of quality.

 

I was just a bit surprised this is a “short” novel for some reason!

 

Although it helps explain how Guy Haley has produced yet another book! Wonder if they are paid differently for novels by word count? Assume they have a contracted royalty rate based in wholesale price (unlike short stories that pay by the word)?

Edited June 5, 2020 by DukeLeto69

[DarkChaplain]

I remember having arguments with folks about them hating novellas or short novels before, while I'm also of the opinion that a tightly plotted story that achieves what it sets out to do in 128, or 256 pages is better off in those formats than as a full 400 page novel.

 

Problem is when the story would've clearly benefitted from the added pages, but didn't get them (or the commission with BL wasn't adjusted accordingly, including pay). That much seems to me the case with The Oubliette for Warhammer Horror - although I cannot say whether or not the author felt he needed more space, or even asked about it. That novel would've benefitted greatly from smoothing out the second half and developing characters more than it did. The format was a bit of a tight fit.

 

On the other hand, we have Fear to Tread, or basically any McNeill novel for the Heresy, which went wildly over budget in terms of wordcount, could've well used a good trimming, and been better off for it. And then we have Abnett who is.... more economical with a lot of his works, and ends up with rushed endings and clearly on-point word counts. I'm super surprised that Saturnine ended up being a mammoth instead of the usual llama.

[Kelborn]

To quote one of my fav characters ever made:

"Glory is not about quantity, brother, it is quality.

That is why there are only twelve trials, six smiths, two strikes, one..." ...good story.

;)

[b1soul]

Really wish they had worked the Men of Iron into The Beast series as originally planned

[StrangerOrders]

Really wish they had worked the Men of Iron into The Beast series as originally planned

Didnt know that was planned...

 

Pardon me while I weep for the lost potential... although, granted how that series ended up it might have been for the best.

[DarkChaplain]

Honestly, that'd just have opened a whole new can of worms. They'd have to actually put them down for good after beating the orks, which would've probably taken the remaining books to accomplish. Nevermind that it was already strange to have that STC thingy in First and Only, and having another source of fresh Men of Iron available - or, in case it'd be from the same source, having that factory survive - would've been just too much of a stretch.

 

Besides, even just justifying why they were bringing them into the war now, and did not during the Heresy War, would've been tricky. Not even use of the Keys of Hel was sanctioned. Having anybody high-ranking remember about those Men of Iron even existing for realsies in a known location would've been hard to pull off without a lot of plotholes. On the other hand, a lucky find, just in time for this occasion, could've clashed with suspension of disbelief as well.

And then, as said, they'd probably have become an even bigger threat than the Orks, if they had the power to actually defeat them. There was a reason they were outlawed and destroyed.