Dawn of Fire - the series

[Knockagh]

The fact that it was *only* £45 and not the £50 I’d anticipated *almost* (almost) tempted me to break my self-imposed decision not to buy it. But I’ve just not got the space for another 9 bulky hardbarks and the inevitable novellas, so digital it is for me...

Display space is something that will eventually limit many collectors of these editions. Unlike expensive models you can’t or won’t want to hide these things. They are bought because you like to create a display of them. Something BL seem to have grasped when they decided to make the books more uniform in design.

[mc warhammer]

...whut? Did we read the same interview? He's quite clear about establishing new characters and there's various classic fluff pieces being addressed and featured prominently. He also says it's a new narrative that we don't even know how it'll end - we just know the approximate timespan of the series, being the Indomitus Crusade, and that it'll feature Primaris because said Crusade is why we've got Primaris all over the galaxy in the first place.

 

The only part where the miniature side is even addressed is in that Guy considers it easier (though not effortless) to integrate studio works into the ongoing narrative, compared with actually managing the narrative itself, and the authors involved. It's a collaborative effort with the studio, yes, but if anything, it looks like Guy is firmly in charge of the novel series, rather than getting big mandates from the studio. They'll obviously be pushing ideas and reference material back and forth, but this seems to be putting narrative first across the board.

agreed. it's pretty clear he's putting a lot of thought and planning into creating a thorough sandbox to play in...as much as he might with his own concept

[DarkChaplain]

I mean, did you expect him to go and tell us to give this a pass, it sucks and he hates Primaris? What, really, did you think we'd be told about a book up for preorder today?

[RedFurioso]

The extract was interesting!

[G_R_H]

The extract was interesting!

Do you have the link for this please?

Edited August 8, 2020 by G_R_H

[RedFurioso]

 

The extract was interesting!

Do you have the link for this please?

 

MP3 and epub/mobi links on the page

 

https://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/dawn-of-fire-avenging-son-ebook-2020.html

[Knockagh]

‘I was there’ is fast becoming a warhammer thing. From Horus Rising to the black books and now Dawn of Fire.

[Guest Triszin]

Im very curious about this book,but I think it will end up making plague wars soft cannon, atleast 1&2

[Fire Golem]

Im very curious about this book,but I think it will end up making plague wars soft cannon, atleast 1&2

Why?

[Sete]

"a military undertaking that eclipses all others in known history."

 

Even the great crusade?

Edited August 8, 2020 by Sete

[Noserenda]

Guilimans crusade starts much much bigger than the Great Crusade but the Great one kept growing and growing as it went whilst Indomnitus was very much doing the opposite afaik? 

[Captain Idaho]

This sounds odd but could someone who has it let me know if it gives a reasonable account and air time for the non-Primaris Marines also?

 

I'm not bashing or expecting anything particularly out of left field, just my interests centre around my collection, mostly Classic Marines. And I would like to read about them.

[cheywood]

This sounds odd but could someone who has it let me know if it gives a reasonable account and air time for the non-Primaris Marines also?

 

I'm not bashing or expecting anything particularly out of left field, just my interests centre around my collection, mostly Classic Marines. And I would like to read about them.

No one has it yet. First copies will start showing up sometime next week.

[DarkChaplain]

This sounds odd but could someone who has it let me know if it gives a reasonable account and air time for the non-Primaris Marines also?

 

I'm not bashing or expecting anything particularly out of left field, just my interests centre around my collection, mostly Classic Marines. And I would like to read about them.

 

For what it's worth, we'll be seeing a good amount of Primaris. But keep in mind that Guilliman arrived at Terra with classic Ultramarines, as he hadn't unwrapped Cawl's Primaris yet.

 

A big goal of the Indomitus Crusade was also dispersing Primaris among the Chapters, like they did with the Blood Angels in The Devastation of Baal. So while the crusade force will obviously have a large amount of Primaris, the full adoption of the new gene-seed isn't really going to be far advanced yet, compared to post-Indomitus content. It will really come down to what stories they're going to tell, and how much we stick with the crusade itself.

 

Regarding the Crusade size, I'd say that it is a reasonable thing to state that Indomitus is "bigger" than the Great Crusade, as the Great Crusade a) still had to reunite Legions, often dying ones, with their Primarchs. On top of that, the enemies of man have been swelled in numbers due to the Great Crusade, and the old Traitor Legions are probably more of a threat than all those individual worlds or systems of non-compliant human civilizations and xenos conglomerates. Doesn't help that they're actively encroaching on "our" territory rather than the other way around.

And yeah, Guilliman's crusade starts with a massive force that gets dispersed over the course of the century, so it was naturally gonna end in a different way than the Great Crusade, which was running out of enemies by the time of the Heresy.

 

Surprisingly enough, I'd also argue that Mankind is far more militaristic now than they were during the Great Crusade. A lot of systems were established during and after the Heresy that simply weren't needed before. The Legiones Astartes did most jobs, and while the Imperial Army was around to support, their role wasn't of the type of cannon fodder as it might be now. Legions, even after falling apart, were still more coherent than all those myriad Chapters and regiments going about.

But most importantly, nobody really expected a major civil war to break out during the late Great Crusade, so a lot of focus was put on restructuring, raising up worlds from their old heathen cultures, and preparing for relative peace. In the grim darkness of the far future there is only war, though, so cultural endeavours have taken quiiite the step back as military and dogma have taken their time in the sun. So in that sense, even as it is hard-pressed on all fronts by the time of the Great Rift, is far more prepared for a Crusade on a galactic level than it was during the Great Crusade - and by the time the Crusade could have mustered the same strength, it wouldn't have been needed anymore.

Edited August 9, 2020 by DarkChaplain

[DukeLeto69]

You know I too initially reacted with “wait what?” To the “bigger than Great Crusade” thang but when you consider it logistically it does indeed make sense (at least for the start).

 

When the Great Crusade launched:

- The Imperium consisted of just Terra and her ally Mars (possibly rest of Sol System but I am hazy on whether that classed as before or part of GC)

- Meaning it simply would not have had the manpower to begin with but would grow over time (adding increasing numbers of expeditionary fleets)

 

When Indomitus launched:

- RG could muster forces from across half the galaxy.

- We know the Imperium was always talked about in terms of a million(ish) worlds so if half of those are on right side of Great Rift then RG has potential recruitment pool of circa 500,000 planets

- Plus as @DC says, 10,000 yrs of militarisation means the forces at RG disposal are already there and don’t need to be built (grown), trained or equipped.

 

Perhaps the closing yrs of GC would be comparable to IC?

[Sete]

Makes sense.

[Felix Antipodes]

 

I mean, did you expect him to go and tell us to give this a pass, it sucks and he hates Primaris? What, really, did you think we'd be told about a book up for preorder today?

No, I didn’t. That was the point of my post responding to someone basing their purchase off of it. Battle for the Abyss was probably thought of as great by its author/publisher and pushed as such.

It’s not worth continuing or elaborating on. Enjoy the novel if you bought it. I look forward to the reviews.

Considering it was my post that set this off, I'll explain myself if I may.

Firstly, I know it was a piece of PR for the book and series. I was sold on the book (and the series itself if the first lives up to its promise) by Haleys intent for the series and what it might deliver, not the usual WarCom mania and spiel.

Will he deliver? Who knows but his track record has been good from the stories I've read of his. He proposed a tying together with other storylines set in the same period rather than the usual stomping over extant series. He described new characters being added, not all of which are Primaris. Not that I have a problem with them but, as pointed out already, they should still be in Cawl's freezer (or freshly thawed out) as crusade planning starts. They should become more numerous storywise as the series progresses.

There were other things I liked in the spiel as well but that's more than enough said.

I do hope it at least touches on the status of The Cadian warzone, which got short shift once Guilliman was resurrected. Chaos is still the number one enemy of the Imperium (despite the upgrades the Tyranids and Necrontyr have been given recently) and deserve their time in the sun.

[Petitioner's City]

The preview has me rather excited about this -

 

https://www.blacklibrary.com/Downloads/Product/ePub%20and%20MOBI%20Extracts/D/Extract-Dawn-Of-Fire-Avenging-Son.epub

 

It starts with a on-the-nose 'Horus Rising' nod, and that's no bad way to start and speaks to the series' ambition. Also loved that the main character is *not* an Ultramarine, but rather a White Consul, so also a connection to 'Lords of Silence'. His motley crew had travelled through the warp for years to Terra, which I hadn't realised had occurred for that length during the Gathering Storm, but makes sense.

 

Also a wonderful section about the anatomy of daemons!

 

Very excited for this.

Edited August 9, 2020 by Petitioner's City

[Captain Idaho]

Ooo that might just be interesting enough for me to give it a go.

[DarkChaplain]

Has anybody gotten around to reading Kyme's (and I don't want author-bashing here!) Knights of Macragge? It's about the story of Sicarius when he got lost en route to Terra aboard the Emperor's Will. I'm not sure when he popped back up (he is already part of Guilliman's retinue by the time of Dark Imperium), but it seems somewhat unlikely that we'll be seeing him anytime soon in the series.

 

On the flipside, it seems almost likely to me that his reappearance will factor into the series at some point in the future, as the Indomitus Crusade goes ahead.

[b1soul]

I actually think the Ultramarines and Sicarius are some of the few things Kyme doesn't absolutely butcher. Knights was a serviceable read IMO. I also liked his treatment of Sicarius in Fall of Damnos.

[Noserenda]

I had heard good things about Knights actually. I suspect Kyme does better when hes not got a heavy handed metaphor to hammer... upon the anvil (Dammit! :P )

[StrangerOrders]

I quite enjoyed Knights, its certainly an extremely creative read in my opinion.

 

Its a bit on the short side and the prose are nothing to write home about but the concepts and narrative actually drew me in and it really gave a really cool touch as to the abilities of the factions involved. 

 

I actually really liked his take on the EC in Chirurgeon and Dreams of Unity is a surprisingly touching read.

 

Kyme can be horrendous by my token, but I find that his quality skyrockets when he isnt touching the Salamander-stone of Doom.

 

To a degree I wonder if its him or if its just that no one seems to be able to do anything worthwhile with the Sallies. Which is odd given that they are basically an army of pseudo-Minoan (seriously, replace Bulls with Salamanders and you are most of the way there) hero-blacksmiths with a literal genetic propensity towards tragedy. You would think they are automatically easy to make fascinating yet it never seems to come out that way for me at least (the closest I got to caring was their Black Book Appendix). 

Edited August 10, 2020 by StrangerOrders

[b1soul]

Wraight or ADB would turn the Sallies to pure gold

[Noserenda]

There is a lot to play with with the Salamanders, unfortunately every author just seems to focus SUPER HARD on the Promethean cult and black smithing, which are like, the least interesting thing, hell, even the Apothecary on the Sisyphium is an expert locksmiths somehow *sigh*