New edition and new units. How will they affect Ultras?

[Ishagu]

The turret is a really strange unit, imo. The model is amazing however, and the Techmarine looks fantastic.

[jaxom]

Oh I agree. Dont get me wrong I like the look of the models but they wont fit my collection. I guess I just prefer the first gen as they gave you a blank canvas to work with. It is a lot harder to convert these knight themed ones unless you are going with that aesthetic.

I wonder what they’d look like with the 30k UM helmets for Suzerains instead of the crusader helmet.

[Subtleknife]

Personally I still think it would look odd. I reckon using intercessors and some conversion/bit swaps with the suzerains will look very good

[Daigo Cannon]

Have anyone notice how all the new units have the XIII on them? is this a new indication of the legion reborn???
I don't believe they are company markings

[Captain Idaho]

Oh I didn't notice that. Interesting but I can't imagine the Legion existing as an entity when under Guilliman's leadership all Marines are essentially a Legion resource to him ;)

[Subtleknife]

Apparently the stream stated we have some boon to overwatch but it was not expanded upon. Hopefully it is more than the strat we already have.

 

But if we do only have that strat then it has suddenly become really strong allow 3 other units to weigh in. Potentially mean we are better than tau in overwatch.

Edited June 17, 2020 by Subtleknife

[emperorpants]

It's most likely the strat we already have. That said, imagine using it on aggressors and other things in a defensible position....with Calgar in the area. 150+ shots hitting on 5s with a full re roll? Yes please.

[Subtleknife]

Personally I dont like the overwatch change but it is potentially an area where we can excel.

[Captain Idaho]

I'm glad Overwatch has been changed but that is likely another discussion for another thread.

 

For Ultramarines, Stu Black confirmed the Ultramarines still get to use their Strategum to enable multiple units to support each other through Overwatch, but we'll still have to use the "Fire Overwatch" Strategum.

 

With the increase of Command Points for all armies, this isn't such an issue (we get more now so paying the points doesn't have as big an impact).

 

One thing I'm waiting on seeing is the wording for CP generation. Can we use Adept of the Codex alongside Scryer's Gaze?

[emperorpants]

I'm glad Overwatch has been changed but that is likely another discussion for another thread.

For Ultramarines, Stu Black confirmed the Ultramarines still get to use their Strategum to enable multiple units to support each other through Overwatch, but we'll still have to use the "Fire Overwatch" Strategum.

With the increase of Command Points for all armies, this isn't such an issue (we get more now so paying the points doesn't have as big an impact).

One thing I'm waiting on seeing is the wording for CP generation. Can we use Adept of the Codex alongside Scryer's Gaze?

This is something I was wondering as well. I could see adept being limited to once per battle round, but I think it would be perfectly reasonable to allow adept and scryers to stack.

[Captain Idaho]

Well, the wording in our Supplemeng piqued my interest... the Adept of the Codex confirms it can only generate a single CP a turn, whilst Scryer's Gaze doesn't share that wording.

 

It felt like it was prepared for a change coming all that time ago. ;)

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Tiggy be liek all your cp belong to me. :D

[Subtleknife]

Gman is going to be harder to use with those character targeting rules. He definitely wont be as safe as he once was.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

That goes for all characters so it’s a wash.

[Ishagu]

Actually this affects expensive characters who rely on auras the most.

 

Now the army needs to be bunched up a lot more, and you need redundant units near them at all times. They'll be harder to keep alive in a dynamic game, which isn't a problem for cheap guys that you can throw away without suffering a massive detriment to the army.

 

Guilliman is hurt more by this rule change specifically because he can't enter a transport, unlike other heroes like Calgar or Abaddon.

Edited June 18, 2020 by Ishagu

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I think castles are dead.

[Ishagu]

Sure, I don't mind. As long as GW gives us new rules that are equally effective.

 

Right now our rules favour a mobile castle, built around key characters. I'm all in favour of shaking it up but we need new dynamic rules to replace what we currently have.

 

If we don't get those rules we'll fall further behind White Scars, Raven Guard or Blood Angels.

Edited June 18, 2020 by Ishagu

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Impulsors filled with death, Gman inside, Outriders and dreaddies running and gunning. A more dynamic game.

[Ishagu]

If I'm zooming about with Impulsors I'd rather have characters inside them or flying behind them.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

For sure .

Edited June 19, 2020 by Black Blow Fly

[mel_danes]

Glad I bought that Impulsor before the lock down. Now I need to build it, and fix that wonky off center roof mount.

 

So you put Bladeguard, Stabby Cpt, and Neo Chaplain in the battle bus. Haul butt up the board to support your forward units of Incursers and Invictors, unload turn 2 and flip the switch to MURDER.

Is that about right?

[CCE1981]

Don’t forget the Bladeguard LT

[Captain Idaho]

I think Ultramarines are actually better off than most other armies when it comes to these Look Out, Sir rules changes.

 

Consider the following, if you will:

 

Many players in 8th edition would bunch up their models around a selection of characters, placing said characters in a manner so their aura abilities affected the most amount of their units as possible. The aforementioned "castle". It was largely immobile in the sense it could only shift across the table a few inches but this wasn't much of an issue as finding fire lanes was never an issue.

 

In 9th edition, with obscuring terrain, doing the same thing will result in the opponent hiding on the objectives and you losing the game, most likely. It's also going to result in tighter castles now characters have to be within 3" of a friendly unit for and not be the nearer unit to the enemy.

 

So armies are spread around the table more in 9th to reach objectives and get round obscuring terrain. How do Ultramarines benefit over other armies? We have several Strategums that spread our reroll mechanics across the table.

 

Sons of Guilliman, Avenge the Fallen and Inspiring Command will all ensure more units in our armies are receiving a benefit to their shooting and assaults than other armies.

 

As for Guilliman? Well all are going to be experiencing the same rules but Guilliman has a Movement of 8" and adds +1 to advance and charge rolls to all units within 12", including himself. He can keep up.

 

He also will allow our Ultramarines to reroll hits of a one when within 12". I think a lot of people forget this.

 

Lastly, Guilliman will have an army that can more readily get up the table for assaults, thus making his combat prowess more likely to be utilised in a game.

 

The one big problem, which I am 100% confident GW have covered in an FAQ after watching all the Warhammer 40K Daily videos, is his position as a Lord of War.

[Aspecti]

I think Honour Guard just became more useful for protecting characters :)

[Paulinus]

Yep. Victrix Guard are going to be very useful.