New edition and new units. How will they affect Ultras?

[Captain Idaho]

Both of them are units too small to stop the character from being shot, though they can both tank wounds handily enough. I like that we have to think about them now.

[jaxom]

Both of them are units too small to stop the character from being shot, though they can both tank wounds handily enough. I like that we have to think about them now.

 

I'm wondering if the changes to targeting characters will lead to a change in bodyguard units. If Victrix Guard were an upgrade for Calgar, it would be a unit where a model has the character key word and "Look Out, Sir!" would apply. It would help keep those twee bodyguard units alive, but also give characters some ablative wounds and attacks. Might be too much for the bigger (in terms of numbers or wounds/toughness) bodyguard units.

[Captain Idaho]

That's an interesting point. It's possible day one FAQ will amend their use.

 

I never liked that they intercept wounds and not hits. A single Lascannon can take both Honour Guard out quite easily really, whilst the invulnerable save is wasted on the unit if they're suffering Mortal wounds instead of hits of their charges.

[Paulinus]

That's an interesting point. It's possible day one FAQ will amend their use.

I never liked that they intercept wounds and not hits. A single Lascannon can take both Honour Guard out quite easily really, whilst the invulnerable save is wasted on the unit if they're suffering Mortal wounds instead of hits of their charges.

A single las cannon can only kill one victrix Guard not both. And their invul can make it rain on their parade if it saves.

 

Take two squads to alternate taking the mortal wounds. Keep an apothecary nearby. Even better if you give them a FNP with said apothecary.

 

So Calgar gets hit, damage is halved, FNP. Any damage getting through causes mortal wounds on one of the two victrix guard squads. FNP if able to. Apothecary heals wounds. A mini tank castle. Not quite Ironhand level but still survivable.

[Captain Idaho]

Honour Guard only have 2 wounds apiece so a single Lascannon can quite readily nuke them both.

 

Victrix Honour Guard have more wounds so are going to be harder to take down of course, but I think we have to be wary about building castles in 9th edition. The game is looking to require more fluidity and maneuverability to score objectives so an unkillable castle has to be carefully thought out.

 

Not a terrible idea though. I'd recommend just a single unit though, so we have points invested in other things.

 

If you can get Calgar on the front line though, the Victrix Honour Guard won't be wasting their combat prowess, which I'm all for. :)

Edited June 20, 2020 by Captain Idaho

[Paulinus]

I could be wrong but I assumed honour guard were sent to Legends.

 

5 company vets with storm shields would be a better option if that is the case.

[jaxom]

If you can get Calgar on the front line though, the Victrix Honour Guard won't be wasting their combat prowess, which I'm all for.

 

I'm very curious to see the new point cost for Repulsors and what Power of the Machine Spirit becomes. I have some thoughts on positioning shenanigans and Repulsor Field to keep a disembarked unit safe from charges until the next turn. 

 

I could be wrong but I assumed honour guard were sent to Legends.

 

5 company vets with storm shields would be a better option if that is the case.

 

Victrix Honour Guard are the two Primaris bodyguards you can take without using an Elite slot if you have Calgar in the same detachment.

 

Edited June 20, 2020 by jaxom

[Paulinus]

 

I do know that. But Idaho mentioned honour guard not victrix. I brought up victrix.

[Captain Idaho]

Honour Guard are in the Ultramarines Supplement. Battlescribe lists them as Legends incorrectly.

[lansalt]

Honour Guard are in the Ultramarines Supplement. Battlescribe lists them as Legends incorrectly.

But they appear in the Adeptus Astartes Legends PDF that was released later, so it seems that they are Legends now.

[Captain Idaho]

That is a Chapter generic entry without the Ultramarines Keyword, with historic alternative Wargear options.

 

The Ultramarines Honour Guard entry is in the most recent publication of the Ultramarines Supplement.

[Prot]

I'd say with more of the rules starting to flesh out now and we're seeing a bit more of the bigger picture, it looks really good for Ultra's. 

 

I would go so far as to say the way that I actually preferred to play my Ultra's in 8th is probably a better fit for 9th. 

 

Impulsors are going to be huge. There's no need with new CP rules to fill out dual bats anymore, however it's not like the "Troops" are a bad thing for Ultra's compared to some other armies. But it's even more reason to use Impulsors. My White Scars have 2, and I made add a 3rd.

 

However it's worth noting a Repulsor is 16 wounds and will do well with new(old?) Obscured rule back in effect.

 

Lots of good things happening here imo. 

[Captain Idaho]

I'm getting a Crusader for my Ultramarines (finally) ready for 9th. They have a 2+ save, which is essentially a 5+ invulnerable save against Lascannons and equivalent, can get my Cataphractii up the table and have gorgeous fire power.

[Paulinus]

Boy oh boy those new strategic reserve rules are going to make Ultras awesome. Aggressors arriving turn two or three is going to hurt. A lot.

 

Guilliman hitting a flank...

Edited June 24, 2020 by Paulinus

[emperorpants]

Boy oh boy those new strategic reserve rules are going to make Ultras awesome. Aggressors arriving turn two or three is going to hurt. A lot.

Guilliman hitting a flank...

Aggressors have potential with this. They will certainly get their billions of shots off. One downside though is they won't be able to be buffed by a chaplain for plus one to wound, as aggressors are one of the best units to put that on. Honestly, with the terrain rules they may not need to be outflanked. Shouldn't be too hard to get them behind obscuring or dense terrain.

 

Still, this opens up options, which is always a good thing. There will certainly be times where this will help and be amazing, depending on what you are fighting. Sidenote: Auspex scan is going to be invaluable.

 

As for Guilliman, I'm not convinced this is a good use for him. If you are paying for him, you want him on the table using his buffs. Especially since you will likely not have many other buffing characters, so if he isn't on, not much buffing is happening. Also, with the terrain rules and smaller table sizes it shouldn't be too hard to march him up the table, and it will likely be safer to do so, again due to the terrain rules.

 

If you outflank Guilliman, you still have to make a 8 inch charge (because of his aura), which is not reliable. There is a good chance you will fail the charge and then get blasted off the table as you will likely not have much character protection close to Guilliman, and you better believe that your opponent will devote a ton of resources to killing him. So you will have lost out on buffing things with him and then have him die before he does anything at all. You are kinda hanging him out to dry with this. It has potential if your enemy doesn't have infiltrators or enough chaff, but the risks outweigh the benefits imo. Imo marching him up the table while screening him and using terrain intelligently would be a more efficient and safer choice.

 

On a different note, looks like morale will still largely be irrelevant to space marines in general. Nothing has changed in so far as failing it or not initially is concerned, and since squad sizes are likely going to be minimum in size (or slightly above) moral is still going to not really matter. Meaning our leadership bonus and strats are most likely going to stay pretty pointless. Oh well, this was never a make or break thing.

 

All that said I do really like how outflanking cost depends on total power level of the units. That's a pretty cool way of doing it. Outflanking grav devestators is going to be tasty, who needs drop pods? ;)

Edited June 24, 2020 by emperorpants

[Paulinus]

Guilliman wouldn’t be outflanking alone when I try this. He’ll have friends and trust me, his buff will come into play.

[emperorpants]

Guilliman wouldn’t be outflanking alone when I try this. He’ll have friends and trust me, his buff will come into play.

I'm sure he will, just a lot to gamble on making an 8 inch charge imo. I personally wouldn't do it, but if it works for you, by all means, have at It! :)

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I will definitely use this - I love having the ability to beta strike. Only that bothers is it’s based upon power level.

[emperorpants]

I will definitely use this - I love having the ability to beta strike. Only that bothers is it’s based upon power level.

Oh, I'll use it too. Grav devestators, centurions, the bladeguard, the new melta guys, etc. There are many applicable uses. Speaking of the melta guys, they could be horrifying with this, depending on their rules.

[Cruor Vault]

I think we can safely say we are now going to be one of the better Marine factions....

 

The largest challenge for the T’au Empire in the new edition is the change to the Fly keyword. It no longer offers units the ability to Fall Back and shoot, which means you need to put extra effort into screening enemy charges and preventing your critical shooting units from being engaged in combat. 

 

From the T'au Faction focus.

Edited June 25, 2020 by Cruor Vault

[Toxichobbit]

Fly keyword no longer lets you shoot after leaving melee. Our Chapter Tactic just became a lot more relevant.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

That’s huge.

[emperorpants]

This is a GIANT buff to Ultras. Since falling back and shooting was really quite common before, it was of limited value. Now that it is all but disappearing in many armies, our stock is rising greatly. Our CT now actually matters to Inceptors, fliers, executioners, etc.

 

As a man of my word, I'll now admit that I was wrong about our CT being lacklustre before, and I'm happy to have been wrong. To be fair though, i always maintained that I could be wrong and hoped I was. ;)

[Toxichobbit]

I think it's really big for non-Vehicles/Monsters with Fly. Obviously it affects vehicles with Fly, but at least they can now shoot in melee. But non-Vehicles don't have that option, if they get tagged then they're either staying in melee or are loosing their shooting. For us, all we're suffering is -1 to hit, which is a massive boost over the options for everyone else.

 

Taken alongside the Stratagem that allows you to Fall Back even when surrounded, I think 9th is turning out to be a solid improvement to our CT. I'm not at the stage where I'm fully satisfied, but I'm closer at least :).

[Paulinus]

This is a GIANT buff to Ultras. Since falling back and shooting was really quite common before, it was of limited value. Now that it is all but disappearing in many armies, our stock is rising greatly. Our CT now actually matters to Inceptors, fliers, executioners, etc.

As a man of my word, I'll now admit that I was wrong about our CT being lacklustre before, and I'm happy to have been wrong. To be fair though, i always maintained that I could be wrong and hoped I was. ;)

Dude, I spent enough time in the army and became as jaded as the next guy so I understand that point.

 

But yeah, I am very excited for the Ultras right now.