New edition and new units. How will they affect Ultras?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

If Guilliman is competitive and fun to play I’ll use him. We can easily regenerate 2 CP. I can’t help but be at a loss to know that currently we have the only Imperial Primarch but he’s not good enough. /sarcasm

Edited June 27, 2020 by Black Blow Fly

[Toxichobbit]

If Guilliman is competitive and fun to play I’ll use him. We can easily regenerate 2 CP. I can’t help but be at a loss to know that currently we have the only Imperial Primarch but he’s not good enough. /sarcasm

Which brings up another point to consider - CP has changed. We're considering the value of 3CP based upon 8th. What we don't know is what 3CP is worth in 9th. I think it might be worth less, but at this point it's really hard to say until we know exactly how CP works and regenerates.

 

On top of the option that's been mentioned several times about Guilliman becoming HQ, he could also be FAQ'd to give you more CP when you include him in a list, reducing or even completely negating the CP cost for taking a Super-Heavy Auxiliary. Or maybe he has some kind of CP regenerating mechanic - like he increases the amount of CP your army generates per turn or something.

 

I think it's wise to be cautious and keep an eye out on how things develop, we don't want him becoming a wet lettuce. But I also think at this stage we shouldn't worry too much about it. We know quite a lot about 9th, but there's still loads of key details that we're missing.

[emperorpants]

Melta boys are looking pretty good in their preview. They can indeed double shoot as long as they shoot at only one unit, which is likely what you would be doing 99% of the time anyway. Their guns are assault 1, 24 inch range with normal melta rules. Unfortunately it's another unit that our super doctrine does literally nothing for, just like the entire indomitus box and the vast majority of marine units in general now. On the flip side, our CT is pretty useful for them, don't want their powerful shooting shut down by bad touches. Sidenote: the sallies are going to LOVE these guys, especially when outflanked.

 

There has to be a change to our super doctrine in the day one faq. They said that power of the machine spirit will do something different now...maybe our superdoctrine will be changed in the same way, maybe it will even give the machine spirit rules to things in addition to counting as having not moved?

Edited June 29, 2020 by emperorpants

[Ishagu]

The new Melta unit is great but I hope I can run it as a bigger unit when they are released as a full kit.

 

On the topic of Guilliman, he would need to grant you 9 CP to exceed what Calgar gives you by 1 if he remains a LoW.

Edited June 29, 2020 by Ishagu

[Captain Idaho]

Or he can simply fit into a Battalion and all is well ;)

 

Let's not be too hyperbolic when a more likely, simple solution is going to fit.

 

***

 

Eradicators rules look strong. A unit of 3 is all they showcased so far.

 

Really more than 3 in a unit is going to be wasteful of their special rules. Take 3 units of 3 instead of 1 unit of 9.

 

(Not sure why they don't just have Multi-Meltas. Each and every Primaris unit has unique weapons and keeping track of it all is getting complex - I'm a hobby vet and I dread to think how newcomers are handling it.)

[jaxom]

As assault weapons they can Advance; extends the better threat range to 17+d6”. Anyone looking to get close with transports is in for a bad day.

[Ishagu]

Or he can simply fit into a Battalion and all is well ;)

 

Let's not be too hyperbolic when a more likely, simple solution is going to fit.

 

***

 

Sure, if they've made him a HQ. But there's not yet any indication.

 

9 CP might sound crazy but that literally only equates to 3 bonus CP if you add him to an Ultramarine army as a Warlord.

 

If by chance he is now a HQ that would resolve a lot of issues with the unit.

Edited June 29, 2020 by Ishagu

[Captain Idaho]

I remember folk bemoaning our Chapter Tactic and turns out it's really important, so I'm sure it'll be alright.

[emperorpants]

A strat that will likely see a bit more play is scions of Guilliman with the outflanking rules. It'll be helpful for the melta boys for sure when outflanking.

[Toxichobbit]

 

Protectors (Aura): Enemy models cannot target a Cryptek unit from your army with a ranged weapon whilst it is within 3" of a friendly Cryptothralls unit.

 

This is an ability for the new Necron Cryptothralls, previewed earlier today.

 

It's interesting that it's labelled (Aura), which indicates that there's some rules interaction elsewhere, either in the main rules or abilities on individual units. I'd imagine that things like Rites of Battle will gain (Aura) and things like The Vox Espiritum and The Cruader's Helm will have (Aura) mentioned in their text (they already say aura abilities, but there's no definition of exactly what an aura is in 8th). It's only a minor change, but it's nice to see things being clarified in this way.

 

The second thing is that the Cryptothralls are a 2 model unit, which means in 9th they cannot stop a character being shot. This rule is a way to bypass that. I'm expecting to see the same rule FAQ'd onto our Honour Guard & Victrix Honour Guard, as they're both 2 man bodyguard units that can no longer prevent a character being shot. Maybe replacing the current Honour Guard/Honour Guard of Macragge rules, maybe in addition to them. I also suspect that it'll be tied into the Ultramarines keyword, but there's also a chance it might be tied to other keywords - with Victrix Honour Guard being able to use Protectors for Primaris while Honour Guard can use it for non-Primaris for example.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

GeeDub loves to write rules to break rules.

[emperorpants]

There is a rumor going around that the supreme command detachment is totally different now. The rumor is that now it's a way to fit in Guilliman, magnus,etc. Apparently, if you take Guilliman in a supreme command detachment (which now contains only him) you get the supreme command detachment and one other detachment FOR FREE. The only requirement is he has to be your warlord.

 

Take this with a nice helping of salt though, as it originated from someone claiming to be a playtester on 4chan. So, in the unlikely event that this is legit, what are your thoughts? I would prefer if Guilliman was just a hq but whatever, at least he wouldn't cost 3 cp, so I'll take it if it's true.

[Captain Idaho]

Makes sense eh. Fixes the problems smoothly.

[Ishagu]

In what reality does it fix it smoothly?

 

You need to take 6 characters. It's unplayable at 2k - You won't have an army to go with them. Guilliman is too expensive currently when you need to take 2 characters to go with him, never mind 3 extra on top of that.

 

This is exactly the thing which isn't useful - you either gimp your list by losing CP or you gimp it by burning away points on redundant characters.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Ishagu

[Toxichobbit]

The rumour does say that the Supreme Command Detachment would just include Guilliman, so you don't need an extra 2 HQs for that detachment at least. You still need the characters for any other detachments though - it's still an expensive way to take him.

 

I honestly don't see why Ghazgkull is a HQ and Guilliman isn't. Hopefully GW don't faff about with things like making special detachments for Primarch's or having special rules to break other rules just so they can fit into lists without being prohibitively expensive. Just make them damn HQs and be done with it. It's by far the easiest and most elegant solution and the precident is already there with Ghazgkull.

[Gederas]

The rumour does say that the Supreme Command Detachment would just include Guilliman, so you don't need an extra 2 HQs for that detachment at least. You still need the characters for any other detachments though - it's still an expensive way to take him.

 

I honestly don't see why Ghazgkull is a HQ and Guilliman isn't. Hopefully GW don't faff about with things like making special detachments for Primarch's or having special rules to break other rules just so they can fit into lists without being prohibitively expensive. Just make them damn HQs and be done with it. It's by far the easiest and most elegant solution and the precident is already there with Ghazgkull.

Supreme Command requires 2-3 HQ 0-1 Elite and 0-1 LoW mate

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Did you read the rumor he posted ?

[Ishagu]

Without evidence or a screen shot I see no reason to believe it, either way.

 

Every detachment shown thus far has been the same as it was in 8th.

 

Maybe Supreme Command has been changed, maybe not. If it has been changed then it would be great.

I am aware that other units like Magnus and Mortarion would also suffer under the existing rules so perhaps it's true.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Ishagu

[emperorpants]

Yeah, most likely the rumors are bs. If they were true it would be a decent way of fixing the problem. The best and easiest though is just making Guilliman an hq. Not sure why ghaz is an hq but Guilliman isn't.

[Toxichobbit]

Without evidence or a screen shot I see no reason to believe it, either way.

 

Every detachment shown thus far has been the same as it was in 8th.

 

Maybe Supreme Command has been changed, maybe not. If it has been changed then it would be great.

I am aware that other units like Magnus and Mortarion would also suffer under the existing rules so perhaps it's true.

Also, the rumour is from an Anon on 4chan. Not exactly the most reliable of rumour sources.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I dont trust 4chan ... nope no way.

[Ishagu]

That Supreme Command detachment rumour was in fact true.

 

Basically Primarchs are getting their own detachments as obligatory Warlords. This makes me feel that more will be coming on the future.

 

I'm actually happy with this, it's more thematic than what we had in 8th.

[Kallas]

 

From the Thousand Son's WHC article: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/07/01/faction-focus-thousand-sons/?fbclid=IwAR0HoV773rXNArpyOPPHQWnmJU8oF_85Sw5HQGm6zoHKRgU6EWPOe_3T8_4

Edited July 1, 2020 by Kallas

[MrSpoon]

It would appear that the 4chan chap was correct, in a round about way. Did he have any other useful nuggets of info? 

[Paulinus]

Awesome. And I like how it limits things like the Morty and Magnus combo. Can still be done but it’ll cost.

 

Now to start thinking of Guilliman lists...

 

So 0 CP plus 3 CP to use a battalion but refunded 3 CP but we also get Guilliman’s extra 3 CP so we get 15 CP to start.

 

Thanks GW.