New edition and new units. How will they affect Ultras?

[Captain Idaho]

Can we move on, please? I think we're not getting anywhere. From what it says, there is nothing in the rules saying a unit's actions or status changes when removed as a casualty. However, it is clearly an unknown quality as there aren't many circumstances where returning models are immediate.

 

In short, let's stick a pin in it for now and move onto something awesome to talke about.

 

Like Dreads!

 

I'm happy to hear walker fun is working. I'm also happy to hear outflanking is a powerful ability if used correctly. Perhaps to combat it we will need more infantry to defend.

[Paulinus]

The conundrum is also as I mentioned is that we have two sentences that state conflicting info.

 

One says you are placed back in the board outside of engagement range.

 

The third sentence which has not been removed states outside one inch.

 

Both can’t be right because engagement can be 1” and or 5”.

 

They clearly made. A mistake with the FAQ on what sentence was to be replaced.

[tychobi]

I don't think he gets it. Charge is ok in my book RAW.

[Paulinus]

Can we move on, please? I think we're not getting anywhere. From what it says, there is nothing in the rules saying a unit's actions or status changes when removed as a casualty. However, it is clearly an unknown quality as there aren't many circumstances where returning models are immediate.

In short, let's stick a pin in it for now and move onto something awesome to talke about.

Like Dreads!

I'm happy to hear walker fun is working. I'm also happy to hear outflanking is a powerful ability if used correctly. Perhaps to combat it we will need more infantry to defend.

This. I really like the suggestion of two relic contemptors with DCC and twin las moving up with Guilliman. A lot, and may try it out. Maybe with a techmarine lord following nearby for the 3 wound repairs. Edited July 16, 2020 by Paulinus

[Ishagu]

A unit that is out of play cannot charge or perform any action.

 

When it's reduced to 0 wounds it is removed from play, thus it cannot perform any action. There is no rule that allows an action to be saved up or delayed.

 

If you set the model up again it also counts as having moved again, so that's another action after the previous declaration of charge.

 

To say otherwise is an attempt at waac cheating, clearly.

And finally, this is irrelevant as the situation will almost never occur.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Ishagu

[emperorpants]

Another thing to keep in mind is Ultras are going to be the army with the most cp in the game as far as i can tell. If you take Calgar over the course of a game you will have 24 cp! You start with 14, and then get 5 from command phase, and gain 5 from his warlord trait, making it a mighty 24! Can any other army match that? Granted it depends on adept of the codex, but chances are you'll get one from that every battle round. You could possibly have 25 cp if you take Guilliman and have someone cast to gain one every psychic phase, which isn't super likely unless you use Tiggy.

 

Because of this we can really spam strats.

[Paulinus]

Yeah and to be honest I don’t feel afraid to skimp out on using them either.

 

My game last night saw me go from 14 to 3 in my first turn lol. That was offensive and defensive in my opponents turn but was up to five after my psychic phase in turn two. Didn’t use a single strat in turn 2 and was ga 7 in turn three.

 

It’s a good spot to be in.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

You can give a character the same WLT as Calgar using a strat.

[Charybdis]

@Paulinus congratulations on your win over the toaster boys.

 

You mentioned that Incursors may be a go to unit for us, if it's not too much trouble could you explain their advantages and how you feel it's best to utilise them? 

[Paulinus]

@Paulinus congratulations on your win over the toaster boys.

 

You mentioned that Incursors may be a go to unit for us, if it's not too much trouble could you explain their advantages and how you feel it's best to utilise them?

 

I think it’s the go to infiltrator unit for us. Based on cost and survivability. They make good screens and can get into melee turn one if you go first. Paired combat blades for exploding sixes is pretty good. No modifiers when shooting and ignoring the benefit of cove means they can dig out opposing units from dense cover. -1 because you are in a forest? No issues. -1 and benefit from a +1 to save for something like an industrial building? They ignore that.

 

I think also that this game will be way more about holding objectives. These guys can be on them on turn one as you know.

 

Scouts are still good I think but aren’t nearly as durable.

primaris infiltrators are just too expensive but are still good for area denial

 

incursors seems to be at the sweet spot cost wise and still can shoot well enough as well as fight.

 

5x Incursors is 105 pts.

Intercessors are 100 pts

Infiltrators are 120 pts

scouts are 70pts

 

I think at 105 you get better shooting, better survivability and better melee output man for man.

 

I haven’t had enough games in 9th yet to fully know if they are as good as I think. I’ve used them to get on objectives first. In the last game they screened the Phobos librarian while he conducted his ritual in the center of the board. They were backed up on turn one with an Intercessors squad and Tigurius with an Impulsor moving and dumping them out.

 

They can also threaten the opposing player’s line. Nothing earth shattering but if they have a screen, deploy 9” away, shoot it or something else, charge. If you get 2nd turn rapid redeploy in a more defensive posture.

 

Very flexible unit. Sorry if that was rambling.

 

My sum up is points vs effectiveness I think it’s a solid choice.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

The points are in favor of Incursors as you say. /thumbsup

[Charybdis]

 

@Paulinus congratulations on your win over the toaster boys.

 

You mentioned that Incursors may be a go to unit for us, if it's not too much trouble could you explain their advantages and how you feel it's best to utilise them?

I think it’s the go to infiltrator unit for us. Based on cost and survivability. They make good screens and can get into melee turn one if you go first. Paired combat blades for exploding sixes is pretty good. No modifiers when shooting and ignoring the benefit of cove means they can dig out opposing units from dense cover. -1 because you are in a forest? No issues. -1 and benefit from a +1 to save for something like an industrial building? They ignore that.

 

I think also that this game will be way more about holding objectives. These guys can be on them on turn one as you know.

 

Scouts are still good I think but aren’t nearly as durable.

primaris infiltrators are just too expensive but are still good for area denial

 

incursors seems to be at the sweet spot cost wise and still can shoot well enough as well as fight.

 

5x Incursors is 105 pts.

Intercessors are 100 pts

Infiltrators are 120 pts

scouts are 70pts

 

I think at 105 you get better shooting, better survivability and better melee output man for man.

 

I haven’t had enough games in 9th yet to fully know if they are as good as I think. I’ve used them to get on objectives first. In the last game they screened the Phobos librarian while he conducted his ritual in the center of the board. They were backed up on turn one with an Intercessors squad and Tigurius with an Impulsor moving and dumping them out.

 

They can also threaten the opposing player’s line. Nothing earth shattering but if they have a screen, deploy 9” away, shoot it or something else, charge. If you get 2nd turn rapid redeploy in a more defensive posture.

 

Very flexible unit. Sorry if that was rambling.

 

My sum up is points vs effectiveness I think it’s a solid choice.

 

Not rambling at all, that was very informative. Cheers mate. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

It was indeed.

[Prot]

 

@Paulinus congratulations on your win over the toaster boys.

 

You mentioned that Incursors may be a go to unit for us, if it's not too much trouble could you explain their advantages and how you feel it's best to utilise them?

I think it’s the go to infiltrator unit for us. Based on cost and survivability. They make good screens and can get into melee turn one if you go first. Paired combat blades for exploding sixes is pretty good. No modifiers when shooting and ignoring the benefit of cove means they can dig out opposing units from dense cover. -1 because you are in a forest? No issues. -1 and benefit from a +1 to save for something like an industrial building? They ignore that.

 

I think also that this game will be way more about holding objectives. These guys can be on them on turn one as you know.

 

Scouts are still good I think but aren’t nearly as durable.

primaris infiltrators are just too expensive but are still good for area denial

 

incursors seems to be at the sweet spot cost wise and still can shoot well enough as well as fight.

 

5x Incursors is 105 pts.

Intercessors are 100 pts

Infiltrators are 120 pts

scouts are 70pts

 

I think at 105 you get better shooting, better survivability and better melee output man for man.

 

I haven’t had enough games in 9th yet to fully know if they are as good as I think. I’ve used them to get on objectives first. In the last game they screened the Phobos librarian while he conducted his ritual in the center of the board. They were backed up on turn one with an Intercessors squad and Tigurius with an Impulsor moving and dumping them out.

 

They can also threaten the opposing player’s line. Nothing earth shattering but if they have a screen, deploy 9” away, shoot it or something else, charge. If you get 2nd turn rapid redeploy in a more defensive posture.

 

Very flexible unit. Sorry if that was rambling.

 

My sum up is points vs effectiveness I think it’s a solid choice.

 

 

I gotta admit, I thought these guys would be "my" little secret for a bit longer.

 

I put a batrep up in the White Scars forum. My starting deployment for each game has been: Phobos Libby, 5 Incursors, and an Invictor Warsuit creating a forward base, sitting on/near an objective.

 

As people play more of 9th, the beauty (or pain) of it is in the Primary. Those units give me a head start on it.

 

Funnily enough, both my White Scars and Ultra's prefer this unit over turns 2 and 3, for two entirely different reasons. 

 

To break down the combo a bit more for anyone interested in my findings:

- The Invictor is hit or miss, and potentially a big MISS with the new points hike. However, I'd suggest considering him with the Ironhail Autocannon as it has become a better buy, and now the unit moves/shoots without penalty.

 

- Part of the Invictor's role isn't apparent until you get some games under your belt. He's a red herring to a degree, especially if you don't go first. His mission at that point is cause a psychological effect on the opponent. "He must go".... and quite often the Incursors/Phobos Libby go unchecked. This is a good thing, keep the infantry out of LoS obviously.

 

- The 'secondary' role aside from fire magnet is you will need to guard the Phobos Libby. He's an extremely easy kill. If you lose 3 Incursors, that's it, kiss your Phobos Libby goodbye. He's too potent to leave alone, and will most likely net your opponent some form of secondary, and likely be your last stand on an objective which you will lose as a result. 

 

- If you go first, this combo really shines. The Phobos Libby abilities are decent, (white scars have a fantastic selection for this guy as a side note)...but opening up with a softening blow of Smite is often a good choice, as the Warsuit leads the charge, and Incursors follow through. Keep in mind IF you go the Autocannon route, you are now more capable of shooting harder targets, a bit further away with all shots, therefore keeping your charge target at relatively close range.

 

- I often 'close the gap' with secondary Intercessors if the 'Phobos base' has moved forward. This causes the opponent to perform a massive shift either 1) towards the Phobos base to "Block", or 2) away from the Phobos base to "protect" a shooting base. This is why most of my shootier units are deployed on that far side or capable of going there in T2 (you never know who's going first now).

 

That's the quick and dirty version. It's been something I've come up to enjoy in the opening rounds. Sometimes of course it goes horribly,,,, astra indirect is certainly a game changer for example (in which case you want to come to grips with them asap anyway.)

 

That's my 2 cents anyway.

Edited July 17, 2020 by Prot

[Captain Idaho]

I'm not sold on Incursors myself. I seen many armies shifting to mechanised infantry, where their utility dwindles since they are much less useful if the enemy is safe inside their vehicles.

 

Of course I could be wrong how things will progress.

 

As always though, love your experience getting results and that can't be denied.

[Prot]

I'm not sold on Incursors myself. I seen many armies shifting to mechanised infantry, where their utility dwindles since they are much less useful if the enemy is safe inside their vehicles.

 

Of course I could be wrong how things will progress.

 

As always though, love your experience getting results and that can't be denied.

 

Thanks... but I will say since I'm playing pure Primaris at this point, being entirely mechanized isn't an option. The Impulsor went up, and the Repulsor is too cost prohibitive imo. 

 

The Impulsors are good, but I tend to hand them back after everyone gets out. The problem here is you won't believe how small your army feels on that smaller table by T3. Primaris have a small foot print which is good and bad, but since it is not wounds within a squad, but the squad number itself that protects Characters with Look out Sir, I think saving points on transports that don't do a lot of damage is where I try to get my foot print back in the list. Incursors aren't amazing... don't get me wrong, but having at least one unit is my sweet spot anyway.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I’m going to give the Impulsors a try.