9th edition implications for the GK

[Aeri]

The new roumored changes to power weapons could mean some juice stuff for our nemesis force swords!

[Skywrath]

Purifiers ought to be veterans. That's the biggest disconnect for me with the entire GK lineup.

 

That x 100.

[Captain Coolpants]

Regular flamers confirmed at 12" range.

Hopefully I can go back to putting nothing by incinerators back in my squads!

 

 

Although strongly ill advised now days, it used to be so much fun having a squad of purifiers, with 4 incinerators, AND a Dread with flamers in an stormraven, dropping in, doing the old proper cleansing flame nova and all the flamer shots.

 

Holy fire for the emperor!

Edited August 13, 2020 by Captain Coolpants

[Skywrath]

Today I give thanks to the Emperor and his love for the grey of the Knights. 

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/08/13/new-boxes-new-rules-new-codexes/

 

Scroll down to the italics bit: 

 

"That’s right – it won’t just be Primaris Marines on 2 Wounds anymore! All of a sudden, a lot of units that may have felt a bit left behind become very durable and appealing. From Battle Company units such as Assault, Devastator and Tactical Marines, to the elite Terminators of the 1st Company (who will be increased to 3 Wounds accordingly), the first born will be back to prove to their Primaris battle-brothers their great worth.

 

And as for future codexes for other genetically engineered transhumans warriors (both of the shiny grey and spikey variety), the same will apply to them. Just think how durable that will make units like Rubric Marines or Plague Marines."

 

Let the speculation commence!

 

EDIT: Because of this, purifiers might actually be good now!

Edited August 13, 2020 by Skywrath

[RandyB]

 

Today I give thanks to the Emperor and his love for the grey of the Knights.

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/08/13/new-boxes-new-rules-new-codexes/

 

Scroll down to the italics bit:

 

"That’s right – it won’t just be Primaris Marines on 2 Wounds anymore! All of a sudden, a lot of units that may have felt a bit left behind become very durable and appealing. From Battle Company units such as Assault, Devastator and Tactical Marines, to the elite Terminators of the 1st Company (who will be increased to 3 Wounds accordingly), the first born will be back to prove to their Primaris battle-brothers their great worth.

 

And as for future codexes for other genetically engineered transhumans warriors (both of the shiny grey and spikey variety), the same will apply to them. Just think how durable that will make units like Rubric Marines or Plague Marines."

 

Let the speculation commence!

 

EDIT: Because of this, purifiers might actually be good now!

Purifiers should still have the full Veteran statline.

[Captain Coolpants]

But we will be getting 20% more expensive.

 

This is a very good day indeed. Im super glad they finally stopped toying with us

Edited August 13, 2020 by Captain Coolpants

[RandyB]

But we will be getting 20% more expensive.

 

This is a very good day indeed. Im super glad they finally stopped toying with us

It is enough that I dare to hope that GW has a holistic grasp of all the factions, mechanically, and will not be piecemealing adjustments across the codices.

[Skywrath]

But we will be getting 20% more expensive.

 

This is a very good day indeed. Im super glad they finally stopped toying with us

 

That unfortunately is disappointing, but the ends do justify the means. If that means our Interceptors and our Purifiers stay alive and contest points longer, and promote more diversity in our lists, I'm all for it. However there is also a possibility we might *not* get hit by that 20% hike, but that's unlikely, admittedly.

[Corvus Fortis]

And at the same time they increase lethality of HBs and meltas (and, probably, other weapons too). On top of point increase, I feel we might not benifit from it much in the end. Besides, we are losing additional bodies on table (and bodies proved to be essential in my 9th games).

[Valerian]

I know that all of the Marine factions are impacted by the change, but Strike Marines, Interceptors, and all of the other Power Armored Grey Knights options going to 2 Wounds is a very welcome change.  Additionally, they're taking a hard look at weapons that are underperforming, which should indicate some pretty decent boosts to Psycannons and perhaps also Psilencers.  Incinerators are no doubt going to Range 12", which makes them infinitely more useful out of a Teleporting unit.

 

All in all, pretty exciting times for all Marine players, and a welcome surprise that they're leveling out the power differential between Primaris and Firstborn units - which is huge for Grey Knights as we don't, yet, have any Primaris to lean on.

 

Very welcome news, indeed.

 

V

[Shinkosh]

The leaks for the Redemptor dread seem to suggest that Storm Bolters are staying at 24 inch range, not the 30 inches we have seen leaked for standard Bolters.

[Skywrath]

Shinkosh, that wouldn't appply to us, as we don't have primaris, yet.

[Valerian]

Shinkosh, that wouldn't appply to us, as we don't have primaris, yet.

He’s talking about leaks for Bolt Guns, not Bolt Rifles. Has nothing to do with Primaris.

[Skywrath]

Oh, i just saw the redemptor dread and that set off some alarm bells. Never mind!

[Telepatrick]

Im predicting that gee dubs will ignore psycannon upgrade one more time (D2 or atleast good old rending on 6's)

And they will make brainless psilencer flat 2 damage upgrade, without buffing S or AP

And then will drop something like: "Hey guys, you already have awesome stratagem and tide buffs for your shooty-shoot phase, that already is more than you deserve"

Edited August 14, 2020 by Telepatrick

[Corvus Fortis]

TBH, I don't want to touch competitive 40k at this point. It is clear that we should expect huge changes. I have no wish to play current rules with knowledge that we will become something different in several monts. IDK, why did they put first codexes in October. Could be at least september. And we have no clue when to expect our own codex. But I hope, that we will get it soon after Space Marines and all chaos forces will follow, since we are very similar. Being stuck with officially outdated stuff is not fun.

[Valerian]

IDK, why did they put first codexes in October. Could be at least september. .

Pretty sure that the answer to that has something to do with a global pandemic. I’m actually impressed at what they’ve been able to accomplish this summer, despite that.

[Brother Lunkhead]

My wallet is in no hurry

[Silver-Fox]

Hi GK community,

 

I'm back with the Demonhunters in 9th edition. The last time i played GK was when they got the plastic terminators (and there i played a Corteaz double crussader List.) In preperation to 9th i did build 3 NDK's 30 Terminators and 10 Strikes. But i find it extremely hard to write a list atm. In my last game I lost 28 terminators in one round vs a Salamander List in turn 2. My feeling is that we can't hit hard enough in 9th to survive the retailiation.

 

What do you think after we played some 9th edition games of the GM-NDK's?

The Plus side of them is, that they can now move and shoot without penalty and with the Loremaster WL trait, they are a pseudo"librarian" with know 2 and cast 2 powers.

I would play that variant pretty defensive and focus on shooting with the stratagem and astral aim.

 

The big downside for me is, that I want to take one objective in my List design. While we stand we fight. BUT you want to play the GM-NDK's quite agressive and they are most of the time the most expensive models in the Army. So when you lose them you lose your 5 pts for while we stand and prob. give your opponent 5-8 pts for Headhunter and the anti-psi one. So is it worth playing them when you can generate such a massive point swing?

 

Related to this is the number of characters in an GK army. I try to play only 3 in an Battalion, to make it more difficult to score against us. The 4th character would be an appothecary with an Hammer, but in 8th he was used to be a Inner Fire suicide assassin. Thats now contra productive.

 

Do you use the GM-NDK? and how many Characters do you bring in your lists?

 

Another point is how to get good anti tank in your lists. I think psilancers and psycannons are quite garbage for this role. And Astral aim is most of the time on a 10 man unit of terminators for the psybolt ammunition strat.

Edited August 17, 2020 by Silver-Fox

[Skywrath]

Welcome to the Halls of Titan, neophyte! With the Psychic Awakening raging on and the assault on Sortiarus underway, we are in dire need of recruits.

 

Onto your questions:

 

With regards to list, shoot me a PM (or head down to the army section), and I can theorycraft a list you can try at your own convenience. 

 

I fielded both NDK's and a GMNDK. GMNDK is superior in all aspects, however if you need another threat on the board to focus on despite your paladins, the NDK isn't too bad.

However, I would point out that the librarian with lore master knows 3, and Voldus knows 4 (nearly all my lists have him as the warlord).

 

GMNDK's, are capable of being decent in both ranged and melee. Pop the shooting tide, psychic onslaught, and anyone who you are firing at will have a very very bad day. 

I'm honestly not sure what you mean by the second point, you'll have to give me more context.

 

Depending on lists, I usually have about 3-4 characters. My go-to picks at the current time is Kaldor, Voldus, Apothecary, and occasionally the BC. Inner Fire assassin combo

is still pretty lethal, especially if you are taking headhunter - just pop the powerful adept strategem, dynamic insertion, and perhaps empyric channelling, and go nuts on a

character. I successfully managed to kill warlords like that, but sacrificing 100 points for a potential 180ish (such as Korsarro, in the White Scars write-up on this forum) is

more than useful. 

 

Psycannons are not what they once were, for sure. However they are far from garbage in all aspects, especially with the shooting tide, and the psybolt ammunition/psychic onslaught

strategem. 

[Silver-Fox]

Thank you Brother for welcoming me in the holy Halls of Titan.

 

I will make a Post in the List section of the Forum, when i have a plan. At the moment it feels like nothing works and our models are made out of paper.

 

 

The GM-NDK can cast 2 powers and only knows 1 + smite. I take a Librarian in my lists to get 2 Psy casts for the warpshape - Edict Imperator combo. With Loremaster the GM-NDK can do that and can still work for its points with his ranged Weapons in combination with the Psy/Psi stratagem and astral aim to stand behind LOS blocking terain and shoot.

 

I think Psycannons but esp. the psilancer dont have the Str., AP or dmg to hunt Monsters or Vehicles. I know we have the Tide but all our platforms that profit from that are on Infantry and they get the hvy penalty for moving. On a NDK you don't have that penalty since 9th, but dont profit from the Tide, and you can't take double hvy. Psycannon. With Marines i would take 2 double lascannon Contemptor Dreads, but our only option is Twin Las + Missle and that uses the astral aim cast to be safe. And I think one is not enough to deal with double Repulsor with Flammer Aggressors or such things...

 

The Thing with playing the GM-NDK is, from a point of taking the While we stand we fight objective. He is clearly one of the 3 most expensive models in the Army and so he gives up 5 points if he dies because you dont get your obj anymore. In additon almost every army will take the anti psyker obj and prob. the anti character obj. Thats another 5+3 points for your opponent when he dies. So i Think you have to play them super defensive in order to not produce a 13 point swing in secondarys.

 

 

I play a lot vs. Salamanders or the Sisters of Battle who ignore Ap -1/-2 so a chaplain was in my first lists to get the extra Ap. But without rerolls i think he is not worth it anymore. How do you deal with those targets?

 

I try to use the shooty tide in order to use 2 times the psybolt ammunition stratagem and then switch to the tide of Shadows. (I think in turn 2 or so when the reserves drop). But in the current Meta i think -1 Ap is like no Ap at all. One NDK would be good to use the pychic onslaut strat but he doesn't profit from the Tide and is independent from it. So I could start in the Shadows and switch to shooty tide when my reserves come in.

 

I think soup with some Scions or take Marines for anti Tank could be a good addition for some high Ap anti tank firepower. What do we lose? The tides? Most of them are now kind of useless. the only one which is unique is the shooty tide and only works on infantry.

Dont't get me wrong but I'm still a new Brother, but I can't see the benefit in going pure atm.

[Corvus Fortis]

Pop the shooting tide, 

 

 

Tide of convergence work only for infantry models. 

Edited August 17, 2020 by Corvus Fortis

[Corvus Fortis]

Most of them are now kind of useless. 

 

 

 

The game is about grabbing objectives and surviving, while holding them. Tide of Shadows provides essential defence boost. Other tides are still handy, when you have to kill something important. Psybolts with convergence are very powerful and one volley from a 10-man squad with rapid fire will bring down almost anything in the game, except overbuffed or titanic units. 

[Silver-Fox]

Qick Question.

Would you rather take two Ven Dreads with Twin Las + (Twin Autocannon)Missle

or

a Landraier with extra Multi Melta?

points are the same.

[Corvus Fortis]

Double dreads are way superior.