Prediction on 9th & how it will affect DA

[ValourousHeart]

 

Yeah but that "1+ saves makes you immune to AP" thing is clearly a flaw of the text, amd its gonna get fixed ASAP.

 

The reason the wording on storm shields has changed in Edge of Silence Errata is because 1+ armor saves are intended to work this way (we just aren't meant to get them in this circumstance). The language in 9th is identical to Age of Sigmar where the Bastilodon gets a 1+ save and the Seraphon FAQ spells out how it works.

 

The key difference here is that the Bastilodon actually has 1+ save printed on its data card.  The Bladeguard have 3+ save printed on their data card, with the storm shield rule printed in the rules section of the data card.  That isn't a subtle difference.

 

From there the internet weighed in with rampant speculation.  Applying that Storm Shield rule to terminators and making the assumption that they would get a 1+ save.  That would be like Dark Angels players seeing the current SM codex stratagem Skilled Riders and assuming that was how Jink in the DA codex now worked.

[WrathOfTheLion]

The main concern was stacking armor save characteristic improvements with artificer armor, which is something that could have been done with the Bladeguard LT. This behavior is as intended with a 1+. The difference between the SS and Bastilodon is that it was intended for the Bastilodon, but acquiring a 1+ is not intended for SM HQs, etc.

 

Regardless, this doesn't matter anymore, so I don't know what your point is. If it is printed that way in the codex, then it will just be FAQ'd the first day.

 

I would rather this ended, as it is resolved, it does not affect DA in 9E anymore.

Edited July 19, 2020 by WrathOfTheLion

[Angel of Solitude]

Is it safe to assume then that people will still be using the Ravenwing detachment? We've more CP available to run pure Ravenwing (perhaps with some Deathwing mixed in), but did the detachment bring all that much that isn't available in Ritual of the Damned?

I believe that in the new 40k mission pack, you're unable to include Specialist Detachments...so no Ravenwing Attack Squadron Detachment for competitive play :(

 

In Ritual of the Damned, we do get the Targeting Guidance stratagem, which is both more powerful but also more limited than the Signal the Attack stratagem. We lose the Swift Strike stratagem and the Warlord Trait and Relic, but you could argue that the new warlord traits/relics from RotD - while different - add a powerful flavour to Ravenwing armies.

[Malakai]

Could the OP be amended to include things we already know that has happened rather than speculation? This is a very relevant topic, but a long thread to find current information.

[shabbadoo]

Sounds like a good idea. You should do that. Then somebody can edit it into the OP.

[Chaos Lord Tom]

How do you feel about assault intercessors ? I know it's hard to know before launch and actual games played but I feel they do not really fit in our playstyle.

[Gederas]

How do you feel about assault intercessors ? I know it's hard to know before launch and actual games played but I feel they do not really fit in our playstyle.

Righteous Repugnance, Asmodai, Fury of the Lion, Honour the Chapter

 

Dark Angels have melee capability. It's just not in your face like the shooting ability is :yes:

 

To be honest, I like them. I'll be using them in games soon enough.

 

 

[Berzul]

I plan on building my primaris army full on melee with assault intercessors.

[Master Sheol]

i am building an entire primaris company (my 3rd is full firstborn and the 5th will be primaris only while 4th is vintage models)

[G8Keeper]

i am building an entire primaris company (my 3rd is full firstborn and the 5th will be primaris only while 4th is vintage models)

That is almost exactly the same as my collection, except my 4th is largely heresy minis.

[WrathOfTheLion]

Looks like Grim Resolve is getting changed. It now says that it applies a +1 to hit if the unit does not move. I don't quite know if I read it correctly in the blurry text, but it seems like there's no restriction to ranged anymore, so it applies to melee.

[jaxom]

I don't know how much I trust that interpretation of blurry screen especially when the IF and CF have two different versions of what should be the same.

[Berzul]

Well, a +1 to hit WOULD have been preferable to re-roll 1s before Overcharged started killing you on any natural 1s.

 

Turning that 1 to a 2, as I understand it, won't save you in this edition from overcharged plasma.

 

It IS interesting to have, say, a ven dread with a BS2+, autohitting, though.

[Isual]

Well, a +1 to hit WOULD have been preferable to re-roll 1s before Overcharged started killing you on any natural 1s.

 

Turning that 1 to a 2, as I understand it, won't save you in this edition from overcharged plasma.

 

It IS interesting to have, say, a ven dread with a BS2+, autohitting, though.

Natural 1s to hit are still always misses IIRC.

[Master Sheol]

Well, a +1 to hit WOULD have been preferable to re-roll 1s before Overcharged started killing you on any natural 1s.

 

Turning that 1 to a 2, as I understand it, won't save you in this edition from overcharged plasma.

 

It IS interesting to have, say, a ven dread with a BS2+, autohitting, though.

To reroll 1s you still have masters

[Fulcherius]

I don't know how much I trust that interpretation of blurry screen especially when the IF and CF have two different versions of what should be the same.

I took the time yesterday to kill my eyes on photoshop to improve the screenshots I made, and yeah, it definitely says add 1. I believe the reason they changed is the redundancy with the master's aura and the eventual change of plasma to unmodified. 

 

I wrote the whole list yesterday in the comments of an auspex tactics video, but i did made some small mistakes while writing too fast. 

For info : 

Imperial Fist : - no cover against ranged attack - unmod hit roll of 6 with bolt = 1 additional hit

Crimson Fists : - ranged attack against unit of +5models = +1 to hit ( vehicule counts as 5 models ) - unmod hit roll of 6 with bolt = 1 additionnal hit.

 

[Volt]

 

Its gonna make it very hard to play any more than a 5-man squad, on games above 1500 points.

True, but it makes for an interesting question regarding unit priorities. Is there anything worth dropping to put more terminators in?

According to the playtester in the Discord I'm in... yeah

 

He's being tight-lipped as usual, but I did get some interesting tidbits, specifically in response to this comment from another Dark Angels player:

 

"Hope terminators actually feel like terminators. T5 W2 or more 2+/5++"

 

Said playtester's response:

"the W seems a bit small on those termies for 9th

Terminator Amy is going to be hard to crack in 9th

Land raiders also became way more useful"

 

 

You have any confirmation of this regarding more wounds?

[aura_enchanted]

some advice for people making larger quads or even just deploying MSU's a wise idea for deployment is to field your marines like this basically you want to make a 3 man squad a triangle and a 5 man squad into a symmetrical half hexagon these half hexagons are then repeated next to it on the corner of the long side of the formation if your deploying a ten man squad. this maintains unit coherency when pulling off the edges of the formation, in the event of a ten man squad removing 5 models you remove one half hexagon or by peeling off either end of this double half hexagon. never pull from the middle. this ensures maximum unit footprint and prevents you from getting unit coherency destroyed beyond sniper keyword weapons plinkling out the joining pieces.

 

heres a demonstration:

 

https://youtu.be/1C-5D50Rmos?t=715

[Hantheman]

The new chapter tactic is interesting. it's blurry but apepars to be +1 to hit if remained stationary, and no evidence it's just in the shooting phase. So when you're charged you get +1 to hit in combat as well as shooting. Makes chaplains even better.

[aura_enchanted]

The +1 has lots of useful applications: whirlwinds, land raiders don't move that much in the smaller table, contempor rifleman dreadnaughts or even just some of the more caldestine ones, if you have a reroll aura a Deimos laser destroyer now ceases to care about his overloads and can overload away.

 

Plasma cannons inside of a rhino count as having not moved so you could load up some devestators in a rhino and put someone on literal blast with weapons of the dark age.

 

Eliminators and scout snipers now shoot on a 2+ which is no joke, same with stalker bolter units.

 

Deathwing are a 2+ once they get stuck in on round 2+ of melee. And it makes terminators with plasma cannons not awful, still not worth mind you but their certainly nearing palettable.

 

Drop pods are shooting on a 3+ which is something, and oddly enough the land raider excelsior is now a 1+ to hit.. rerolling 1's, that's kinda absurd but its quite the thing. I can see now why he's legends, the cheapest land raider now and he's autohitting that's just disgusting

[Fulcherius]

The new chapter tactic is interesting. it's blurry but apepars to be +1 to hit if remained stationary, and no evidence it's just in the shooting phase. So when you're charged you get +1 to hit in combat as well as shooting. Makes chaplains even better.

My thoughts at the moment are that it's interesting, makes everything we do more accurate IF we play defensive. SInce 9e is played mostly by primary and secondary, and these mostly are not kill-focused, a good play for us would be to stay on a point and defend it. Using our deathwing to get charged instead of charging, making the greenwing a strong firebase to can blow :cuss up from afar and using Ravenwing/Transported Troops to get the now-unguarded Obj markers.

 

Also, like you said, making use of :

- Stoic Prosecution Litany / Steady Advance Strat to be aggressive when needed (only for Infantry tho) 

- Fury of the First to get a 2+ on the charge, Tactic makes it a  2+ on the ennemy turn after that as well

- Wisdom of the Ancient and Masters for Plasma users becomes much more interesting. 

 

Cons : 

- losing the innate rerolling of 1, doesn't that remove our "Plasma Chapter" status ? (if they do change the rule to unmod 1)

- The Chapter Ancient making a dead Hellblaster shoot on a 2+ when it dies is useless, since the Hellblaster would not have moved the turn it died, so he would already be at 2+ 

[Skywrath]

Battlescribe updated to 9th edition - happy listbuilding!

[WrathOfTheLion]

It's possible that they change our combat doctrine. Since Grim Resolve is changed to be more useful all around, including melee, perhaps they switch the preferred doctrine & bonus to do something else or to be even a different doctrine altogether. I've always thought tactical doctrine made much more sense.

[Hantheman]

Impeccible mobility has been nerfed in a FAQ released today. Pretty much pointless now

[WrathOfTheLion]

It lasted a whole two weeks, longer than I expected.