Prediction on 9th & how it will affect DA

[Isual]

Impeccible mobility has been nerfed in a FAQ released today. Pretty much pointless now

Would propably have been to strong if it stayed the way it was for a while. Hope that GW keeps this speed for nerfig other brocken combos as well.

Edited July 27, 2020 by Isual

[oldmanlee]

Impeccible mobility has been nerfed in a FAQ released today. Pretty much pointless now

gw strikes again

Edited July 27, 2020 by oldmanlee

[Skywrath]

Clearly GW are having panic attacks seeing the DA potentially becoming good again and are like "NOPE!". Well it was fun while it lasted..

[aura_enchanted]

There's still lots of cool stuff we can do remain calm, I can think of lots of interesting combos I think a jump interrogator with fist and key of archrabel is a pretty kill smash chaplain. Mix that with some solid litanies and he's incredibly good this edition.

 

You can run a scout bike squad with a Sgt with storm bolter and shotgun for some pretty ridiculous dice drops from a really cheap unit of bikes.

 

We have some other really silly stuff we can do, as I pointed out the Deimos destroyer who wanted to stay stationary anyway can now sit with its gun propped through a window and give someone a death out of dragon ball z on command and for a fraction the cost of a new gladius or a predator annihilator. I used him to deadly effect in 8th as a way of blowing up enemy armor or elite infantry who though it was funny to try and harm my land raider. (I once blew phobos shrike off the table in a single blast as he was out of position thanks to a tactical sacrifice play of some scouts. (Teach that squirrelly punk to leap out of random barrels to get the drop on me)).

 

And land raiders I think are going to be amazing this edition for just parking mid board and unloading on anyone brave (or dumb enough) to step into a firing arc. And so once they have gotten to a cushy spot they can make huge use of the new chapter tactic. Don't even get me started on how amazing this makes units that don't count as having moved such as deep strikers. Deathwing assault + new chapter tactic means effectively a deathwing terminators squad will annihilate whatever if they just happen to be in weapons range

[Hantheman]

There's still lots of cool stuff we can do remain calm, I can think of lots of interesting combos I think a jump interrogator with fist and key of archrabel is a pretty kill smash chaplain. Mix that with some solid litanies and he's incredibly good this edition.

 

You can run a scout bike squad with a Sgt with storm bolter and shotgun for some pretty ridiculous dice drops from a really cheap unit of bikes.

 

We have some other really silly stuff we can do, as I pointed out the Deimos destroyer who wanted to stay stationary anyway can now sit with its gun propped through a window and give someone a death out of dragon ball z on command and for a fraction the cost of a new gladius or a predator annihilator. I used him to deadly effect in 8th as a way of blowing up enemy armor or elite infantry who though it was funny to try and harm my land raider. (I once blew phobos shrike off the table in a single blast as he was out of position thanks to a tactical sacrifice play of some scouts. (Teach that squirrelly punk to leap out of random barrels to get the drop on me)).

 

And land raiders I think are going to be amazing this edition for just parking mid board and unloading on anyone brave (or dumb enough) to step into a firing arc. And so once they have gotten to a cushy spot they can make huge use of the new chapter tactic. Don't even get me started on how amazing this makes units that don't count as having moved such as deep strikers. Deathwing assault + new chapter tactic means effectively a deathwing terminators squad will annihilate whatever if they just happen to be in weapons range

 

Yeah for sure. Not the end of the world at all.

[Fierce Bear]

Impeccible mobility has been nerfed in a FAQ released today. Pretty much pointless now

Not for Black Knights or bike squads with Meltas... Always advancing, always jinking (4++) and no hit penalty...

 

You will have to decide between landspeeders and attack bikes to give your speed of the raven and the Jink strat too...

 

But I'm a little sad you can't run everything around permanently jinking but the sniper thing was waaay OP.

 

I think the RotD strats are still handy...

[ValourousHeart]

I saw something about Detachments being limited to 1 Captain and 2 Lieutenants.

I wonder if that will count named characters too, in case you want to run a Black and White list with both Sammie and Belial.

If Talonmaster gets the Lieutenant keyword, since he is one, that would have an effect on all of the 3 Talonmaster lists.

 

Impeccible mobility has been nerfed in a FAQ released today. Pretty much pointless now

 

Well instead of every Ravenwing army using Impeccable Mobility we'll likely see all 3 WLT now.

If we are running a pure RW then you will have all of the following elements, but your list will favor one of the elements over the other 2.

 

Impeccable Mobility still works with lots of assault weapons, letting you keep your army moving fast. (RWBK and Bike Squads w/ melta or flamers)

Outrider will be the go to for assault based Ravenwing.  (Primaris Outriders)

Tactically Flexible will be great for your heavy weapons units. (Land Speeders and Attack Bikes)

 

Not sure where that ATV is going to fall, I'm expecting the data sheet to be similar to the GSC Ridgerunner and the various Ork dragsters, with primaris stats.

The Ork ones don't wanna slow down, but they aren't a slouch in assault.

[bigtrouble]

It lasted a whole two weeks, longer than I expected.

I would love to crack the process that GW uses for vetting rules. Have they not tested these interactions? I mean, judging by the state of their app, they are not very data-savvy.

[WrathOfTheLion]

 

It lasted a whole two weeks, longer than I expected.

I would love to crack the process that GW uses for vetting rules. Have they not tested these interactions? I mean, judging by the state of their app, they are not very data-savvy.

It looks to me like they do a lot of it by hand and fast, even points values.

 

For example, there was something for SW I think that kept erroneously getting printed with the wrong points, then FAQd, for multiple chapter approved, so for years.

 

Those kinds of mistakes wouldn't happen if they had some kind of versioned, data-driven system to generate the tables for their publications.

[Skywrath]

There's still lots of cool stuff we can do remain calm, I can think of lots of interesting combos I think a jump interrogator with fist and key of archrabel is a pretty kill smash chaplain. Mix that with some solid litanies and he's incredibly good this edition.

 

You can run a scout bike squad with a Sgt with storm bolter and shotgun for some pretty ridiculous dice drops from a really cheap unit of bikes.

 

We have some other really silly stuff we can do, as I pointed out the Deimos destroyer who wanted to stay stationary anyway can now sit with its gun propped through a window and give someone a death out of dragon ball z on command and for a fraction the cost of a new gladius or a predator annihilator. I used him to deadly effect in 8th as a way of blowing up enemy armor or elite infantry who though it was funny to try and harm my land raider. (I once blew phobos shrike off the table in a single blast as he was out of position thanks to a tactical sacrifice play of some scouts. (Teach that squirrelly punk to leap out of random barrels to get the drop on me)).

 

And land raiders I think are going to be amazing this edition for just parking mid board and unloading on anyone brave (or dumb enough) to step into a firing arc. And so once they have gotten to a cushy spot they can make huge use of the new chapter tactic. Don't even get me started on how amazing this makes units that don't count as having moved such as deep strikers. Deathwing assault + new chapter tactic means effectively a deathwing terminators squad will annihilate whatever if they just happen to be in weapons range

 

If that response was to me, just to clarify - I meant it was fun while it lasted from the perspective that trait lasted as long as it did, and not as my exodus from the Dark Angels. Still planning on playing Dark Angels with 9th, albeit with some heavy adjustments to my list ;p 

 

If it wasn't to me, disregard the message. 

Edited July 28, 2020 by Skywrath

[Berzul]

Noone here SERIOUSLY thought that was going to last any longer than it did, anyway. Right?

 

... right?

 

I mean... c'mon! It was the most broken thing i the history of broken things!

[ValourousHeart]

 

It lasted a whole two weeks, longer than I expected.

I would love to crack the process that GW uses for vetting rules. Have they not tested these interactions? I mean, judging by the state of their app, they are not very data-savvy.

 

I'm surprised by how common that perspective is, it is almost like most people have never worked on a project where they had to develop and test something.

 

Not to get to deep into the math behind play testing vs community feedback.  But let's assume GW has 30 dedicated play testers.  And let's assume they have 2 weeks of play testing.  And let's assume they run play testing at an unreasonable pace, one that wouldn't actually give them enough time to give feedback, where they play 3 games per day for all 14 days.  And just to be clear, your hard core tournament players don't even play games at that pace.  That is 15 games, 3 times a day, for 14 days is 630 games.  Every play tester maintaining a pace of 21 games a week.

 

Now let's look at the player feedback side.  Assuming GW sells 500,000 copies of the rulebook.  I think it is safe to assume under normal circumstances that everyone who buys a rule book will get at least 1 game in during the first 14 days.  But we are in a pandemic, so let's assume that only 40% of players who buy a book will get 1 game in during those first 14 days.  That would be 100,000 games.

 

How likely do you think that there was 1 or more unique interactions that occurred in that group of 100,000 games by players, that didn't come up during those 630 play test games?

 

In order for that group of 30 play testers to hit 100,000 games played, then each player would have to play 3 games per day, 21 games per week, for 3 years and 16 days.

 

If you disagree with my numbers, tell me what you think they should be.

[Hantheman]

 

 

It lasted a whole two weeks, longer than I expected.

I would love to crack the process that GW uses for vetting rules. Have they not tested these interactions? I mean, judging by the state of their app, they are not very data-savvy.

 

I'm surprised by how common that perspective is, it is almost like most people have never worked on a project where they had to develop and test something.

 

Not to get to deep into the math behind play testing vs community feedback.  But let's assume GW has 30 dedicated play testers.  And let's assume they have 2 weeks of play testing.  And let's assume they run play testing at an unreasonable pace, one that wouldn't actually give them enough time to give feedback, where they play 3 games per day for all 14 days.  And just to be clear, your hard core tournament players don't even play games at that pace.  That is 15 games, 3 times a day, for 14 days is 630 games.  Every play tester maintaining a pace of 21 games a week.

 

Now let's look at the player feedback side.  Assuming GW sells 500,000 copies of the rulebook.  I think it is safe to assume under normal circumstances that everyone who buys a rule book will get at least 1 game in during the first 14 days.  But we are in a pandemic, so let's assume that only 40% of players who buy a book will get 1 game in during those first 14 days.  That would be 100,000 games.

 

How likely do you think that there was 1 or more unique interactions that occurred in that group of 100,000 games by players, that didn't come up during those 630 play test games?

 

In order for that group of 30 play testers to hit 100,000 games played, then each player would have to play 3 games per day, 21 games per week, for 3 years and 16 days.

 

If you disagree with my numbers, tell me what you think they should be.

 

 

No sorry, GW bad. Massive game with 300+ units is not perfectly balanced immediately? Terrible. Disgrace. I could do better....

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Interesting discussion but it's not so related to DA and 9th. Let's keep to the topic at hand, please?

[JJD]

I don’t think this has already been brought up but it seems our chapter tactic will change to +1 to hit if the unit didn’t move in the movement phase.

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CP_lJysd42E

As with the current rule there isn’t much synergy with DW and RW but it strikes me as a significant improvement.

[jaxom]

Primaris Chaplain on bike with Stoic Persecution to ride along with the Ravenwing? Switch to a close combat litany as needed for Black Knights and Outriders?

[JJD]

You are very right.

 

Chaplains for everyone.

 

Does +1 mean you can’t die from overcharged plasma.

[Berzul]

Stoic Prosecution will keep giving us good synergy with Grim Resolve. Although, I would have preferred to keep the re-rolls over the +1, since now plasma explodes on a natural 1 and having that +1 to hit does not keep our guys safe

[aura_enchanted]

U can now no longer have more then 1 company master (named or generic) or azreal per detachment and LT's and talonmasters are at a limit of 2 per detachment

 

Land speeders and predators now all have separated datasheets like they used to have pre 5th edition

 

Cataphract master is gone wholesale probably moving to legends

 

Tartaros and cataphract terminators are now one unit listing as a relic terminator squad. They get to pick between the two armor types and then have full range on wargear so tartaros pickup the lightning claws and combi weapons and cataphracts pickup the Reaper autocannon, volkite blaster, and plasma blaster. Pretty sure this means that cataphracts now absolutely slamjam tartaros terminators into irrelevance since they cost one point more and now don't have the wargear limits of old.

 

Scouts appear to no longer be a troops choice in order to not upset space wolf lore and to nerf minimum possible spending on troops choices.

 

New secondary objectives in the codex exclusive to marines allowing you to score bonus vp for kills in a doctrine of your choosing. But only 1 vp per unit killed

 

You can no longer bring cross commands. All HQ's (and robot gorilla) can only be taken in detachments with their specific chapter tactic. So no robot gorilla man with space wolves as an example.

 

Only one generic psy table in the codex but each supplement has its own chapter specific table as well.

[Gederas]

U can now no longer have more then 1 company master (named or generic) or azreal per detachment and LT's and talonmasters are at a limit of 2 per detachment

 

Land speeders and predators now all have separated datasheets like they used to have pre 5th edition

 

Cataphract master is gone wholesale probably moving to legends

 

Tartaros and cataphract terminators are now one unit listing as a relic terminator squad. They get to pick between the two armor types and then have full range on wargear so tartaros pickup the lightning claws and combi weapons and cataphracts pickup the Reaper autocannon, volkite blaster, and plasma blaster. Pretty sure this means that cataphracts now absolutely slamjam tartaros terminators into irrelevance since they cost one point more and now don't have the wargear limits of old.

 

Scouts appear to no longer be a troops choice in order to not upset space wolf lore and to nerf minimum possible spending on troops choices.

 

New secondary objectives in the codex exclusive to marines allowing you to score bonus vp for kills in a doctrine of your choosing. But only 1 vp per unit killed

 

You can no longer bring cross commands. All HQ's (and robot gorilla) can only be taken in detachments with their specific chapter tactic. So no robot gorilla man with space wolves as an example.

 

Only one generic psy table in the codex but each supplement has its own chapter specific table as well.

Where was any of this stated?

[Berzul]

Wait so, I can no longer bring both Azrael and a smash master?

I get the point of having ONE master on the field, most often times. I mean, it makes sense that you have ONE master leading the army, not two or three.

But Azrael commands the CHAPTER, which means he commands the MASTERS as well. So, having him on the field should not really preclude the option of taking a master who serves under him. Right? I mean, it would make sense for the Grand Master to bring along a master and his company into battle, after all.

 

Also, on the thing about scouts, I find it silly... but I get the logic. Now, Tacticals ARE just 1 pt higher in cost per model. You lose infiltrate as a rule, but they are not THAT more expensive.

[WrathOfTheLion]

Wait so, I can no longer bring both Azrael and a smash master?

 

I get the point of having ONE master on the field, most often times. I mean, it makes sense that you have ONE master leading the army, not two or three.

 

But Azrael commands the CHAPTER, which means he commands the MASTERS as well. So, having him on the field should not really preclude the option of taking a master who serves under him. Right? I mean, it would make sense for the Grand Master to bring along a master and his company into battle, after all.

 

Also, on the thing about scouts, I find it silly... but I get the logic. Now, Tacticals ARE just 1 pt higher in cost per model. You lose infiltrate as a rule, but they are not THAT more expensive.

I think it would be likely that Azrael would be able to be taken in the Supreme Command detachment. We will need to see though.

Edited July 28, 2020 by WrathOfTheLion

[Gederas]

Wait so, I can no longer bring both Azrael and a smash master?

 

I get the point of having ONE master on the field, most often times. I mean, it makes sense that you have ONE master leading the army, not two or three.

 

But Azrael commands the CHAPTER, which means he commands the MASTERS as well. So, having him on the field should not really preclude the option of taking a master who serves under him. Right? I mean, it would make sense for the Grand Master to bring along a master and his company into battle, after all.

 

Also, on the thing about scouts, I find it silly... but I get the logic. Now, Tacticals ARE just 1 pt higher in cost per model. You lose infiltrate as a rule, but they are not THAT more expensive.

I think it would be likely that Azrael would be able to be taken in the Supreme Command detachment. We will need to see though.

Yeah, same here. I'm thinking Chapter Masters (named ones) will gain the Supreme Commander keyword that's mentioned in the Supreme Command detachment.

 

 

EDIT: Also, we have a screengrab of the Chapter Tactics page.

 

Anyone able to make out the Dark Angels one?

Edited July 28, 2020 by Gederas

[jaxom]

 

Also, on the thing about scouts, I find it silly... but I get the logic. Now, Tacticals ARE just 1 pt higher in cost per model. You lose infiltrate as a rule, but they are not THAT more expensive.

 

I don't mind Scouts in the Elite slot for a few reasons. The changes to CP and detachment make for an interesting trade-off as to whether one wants to spend points on troops (regardless of how cheap they are, points spent are points spent) or CP to not have to take troops. They no longer have a unique role so they become more of a personal choice than a must have if you need infiltration or snipers. I kind of wish the design team got adventurous with the unit's rules: if the unit doesn't have sniper rifles they get some sort of demolitions shenanigans so they could justify putting all Scout forms into Heavy Support (to compete with Eliminators) instead of putting them in Elites.

 

To convert Sniper Scouts into Eliminators or not? That is the question.

 

The Chapter Tactic seems to be what's been passed around: +1 to hit rolls if remained stationary and auto-pass Combat Attrition rolls.

Edited July 28, 2020 by jaxom

[aura_enchanted]

 

 

U can now no longer have more then 1 company master (named or generic) or azreal per detachment and LT's and talonmasters are at a limit of 2 per detachment

 

Land speeders and predators now all have separated datasheets like they used to have pre 5th edition

 

Cataphract master is gone wholesale probably moving to legends

 

Tartaros and cataphract terminators are now one unit listing as a relic terminator squad. They get to pick between the two armor types and then have full range on wargear so tartaros pickup the lightning claws and combi weapons and cataphracts pickup the Reaper autocannon, volkite blaster, and plasma blaster. Pretty sure this means that cataphracts now absolutely slamjam tartaros terminators into irrelevance since they cost one point more and now don't have the wargear limits of old.

 

Scouts appear to no longer be a troops choice in order to not upset space wolf lore and to nerf minimum possible spending on troops choices.

 

New secondary objectives in the codex exclusive to marines allowing you to score bonus vp for kills in a doctrine of your choosing. But only 1 vp per unit killed

 

You can no longer bring cross commands. All HQ's (and robot gorilla) can only be taken in detachments with their specific chapter tactic. So no robot gorilla man with space wolves as an example.

 

Only one generic psy table in the codex but each supplement has its own chapter specific table as well.

Where was any of this stated?

auspex tactics has a video about all this, he's usually not posting rumor mill stuff so I'm taking it as fact not fiction