New codex coming soon after 9th ed drops

[Azaiel]

Just finished listening to the rules FAQ stream and our superhuman men in black are getting a new codex soon!

 

So happy about this! And it sounded as we will get access to all the new shiny bits.

 

What do you think we will get?

[Qui-Gon]

I must apologize for my pessimism on this, but I don't trust GW in their statement that we are getting new models. They burned us when they released Shadowspear and the initial Vanguard marine release. They burned us on the release of Marines 2.0 and the sharing of all the ADDITIONAL vanguard stuff to everyone. They burned us on Psychic Awakening, where they gave every other chapter serious love and attention, and gave us the most baseline bookkeeping update and not an ounce of effort more.

 

They've stated every codex will be re-released with the new "Crusade" rules. That is the ONLY thing I believe we will get. The rest of it? No. GW has lost my confidence or faith in them to do our faction right.

[6262]

I must be blind where did they say that they were adding the crusade rules to reprinted codexes?

[Prot]

I would admit at this point I had foreknowledge of this but could not divulge it. For a while I was 'accused' of being a little.... forgiving of the current state that Deathwatch was left in after our Deathwatch treatment in White Dwarf.

 

I would have loved to have said something but I was assured that this would just be a blip on the radar so to take this PA treatment lightly as it was not going to have the attention it needed until 9th.

 

So once that drops... then we can be more rightly upset at the treatment! (just kidding. ; ) )

 

As far as the news, I've been told of a new boxset with Necrons (I believe that was the enemy in the box) and DW.

 

Otherwise to be quite honest I'm very excited about the 'Crusade" narrative content. 

Edited May 26, 2020 by Prot

[Qui-Gon]

@Prot: Good sir, there was really no wrong done.

 

Any person with a reasonable level of cognition would have been able to see the writing on the walls of 9th edition coming, the state of the white dwarf being a temporary hold over for an early edition codex release because we can't have our rules be part of a limited print run white dwarf forever.

 

That does not excuse GW's treatment of the Deathwatch in the PA however. It does not excuse their cavalier preview post promoting "14 new stratagems" that are really going to be "13 stratagems come an FAQ". It does not excuse the white dwarf release, even if it was to be rectified with an early edition codex. It does not excuse the lack of substantial model support for 2 years.

 

I doubt that the new box set will be DW vs Necrons. Its going to be Ultramarines vs Necrons. There is no reason for them to put DW in a starter box for an edition like this, even if we should be the loyalist marines doing the job.

 

I am ambivalent on the Crusade rules, because "narrative" gaming needs an overhaul rules wise IMO. As such, I avoid narrative play because it is not fun for me. As such, Crusade is a nothingburger for me.

[Prot]

Well my information over the past months was that I was specifically told to hold on to my horses for 9th edition because Deathwatch was getting their codex "very early" in the release of the edition.

 

As far as 'starter' for 9th... I don't think that's what he was telling me. It felt like he was describing more of a 'Forgebane' sort of thing. I have to be careful what I'm saying obviously. Thanks for understanding.

 

As far as the narrative, for me it's just I get sick of the high competitive stuff... really sick of it. If there's a backdrop for us to grow a storyline that coincides with the Crusade, I think that'll be a fun thing to participate in.

 

I had a massive Ultramarines army during the Gathering Storm campaign and recording games at GW and playing the 'final' scenario was pretty cool. 

Edited May 26, 2020 by Prot

[Boyadventurer]

That's great news Prot, it gives me more confidence in what was said today. I'm happy they even answered the question, I remember all the coy answers we got around Shadowspear.

I'm sure we're actually not going to get *every* model in the new box (obviously not the LT unless they change mission tactics around), but now the interesting question is if we can use these new units, are the shoulderpads separate? Does GW trust us with a knife now?

 

The crusade news sounds pretty awesome for us too. If you're not into RPG elements, why are you even playing DW right?

 

Ok back to my primaris Ragnar -> Captain Artemis conversion

[Mr4Minutes]

I’m interested in the crusade rules myself. Even competitive games can gain excitement if you can add a narrative twist.

 

DeathWatch getting an early release in 9th has been speculated at since our “lite” WD PA update. But I think a lot of us(myself at least) didn’t want to get too excited about the prospect of a real update so close to getting burned.

 

For me personally, I’ll need to see a little more content to forgive the weak WD content. However, if we’re looking at a big reworking of how DW operates and get some new models, I can understand the WD rules. And all will be forgiven.

 

Side note, I hope Prots box set is real. I collect DeathWatch and Necrons and am already all in on the new Necron release. I’d love to add to my Watch at the same time!

[Doghouse]

I had a gut feeling this was coming when they announced the White Dwarf. I really hope it opens up things like phobos armour and Lieutenants and that we get Primaris veterans.

[NKirkham24]

This does make sense. Especially if it had been written when our PA came round, they wouldn't want to give away any of the good stuff.

 

I'm hoping the Assault Intercessor replaces the Reiver so we have a Tacticus/Gravis squad, allowing the Reiver to join a new phobos kill team with infiltrators, Incursors and Eliminators. I don't know how they would give bonuses for the mixed squad, but it's a thought. 

 

Maybe this is where we get our new primaris character, like the other chapters, instead of during PA?

[Mobius0288]

Of the new stuff... and a lot of assumptions

 

The LT looks dope and I like that he has a volkite, but we normally don't get LTs so not holding my breath. Would still make a cool HQ having a primaris guy with a storm shield. Adding to my SM army...

 

Outriders and Hellfuries (Melta devastator looking guys) seem to be auto-takes for most army styles. Fits in mixed units (especially hellfuries if they are units of 3) and in their own.

 

The important aspect I think will be the assault intercessors and blade guards. From the start, we can assume they will be their own units and mixed units won't be possible until the codex. Will the assault intercessors be useful? Less dakka than our intercessors but the chainswords are getting tweaks (astartes chainsword vs other chainswords). If they were the same price as a normal intercessor, would it be something you guys would take? To fill a Brigade, perhaps. Also with the CP changes that are coming, we don't have to focus solely on double battalions though the troop choices are still our bread and butter. Would the assault intercessors have to be cheaper than a normal intercessor to take?

 

And blade guard, which we are most excited for since its an intercessor model with a storm shield... what do you guys think of having an intercessor unit with 1 or 2 blade guards in it for the invuls. Or would you even use their invuls up right away and try to keep them for their melee prowess? I'm expecting them to be at least intercessor cost+6 points. Having only pistols and being company veterans, they should be getting an extra attack over the normal intercessor/assault intercessor. They could be great on their own and better in a mixed unit. Maybe add a Reiver for a self-contained melee primaris unit.

 

All speculation and all in good fun. All this is really going to depend on the upcoming codex. I didn't touch phobos because we've discussed that so many times but I know that's on the forefront of everyone's mind as well.

 

 

Well my information over the past months was that I was specifically told to hold on to my horses for 9th edition because Deathwatch was getting their codex "very early" in the release of the edition.

 

As far as 'starter' for 9th... I don't think that's what he was telling me. It felt like he was describing more of a 'Forgebane' sort of thing. I have to be careful what I'm saying obviously. Thanks for understanding.

 

This gives me two thoughts man. 1 - Forgebane had a couple new toys for folks to play with exclusive to the box set, at least for a few months. There's potential for a new model for either army. 2 - Coming out so early in the next iteration of the edition isn't always a good thing. Cool we get stuff early before a lot of other folks but I know you all remember the differences in the codexes as they were released throughout the year. Grey Knights and Space wolves got F'd for a long time. I'm just saying, be weary. I think us having a solid codex at the end of 8th for the things we have available to us, may negate some of that worry. Especially since in the stream they referred to the upcoming codexes as a kind of "greatest hits."

[Brother Cruoris]

Do you guys think the new vehicle rules for firing heavy weapons without the -1 to hit, if they move, will let the Corvus see more games?

I for one will see if I can make a decent list with my 3 Corvus. =)

[Qui-Gon]

Wait for the rest of the rules.

Wait for the new points levels.

Wait for the new Codex.

 

Speculating about "how will this work in the new edition" without the rest of the context is fruitless.

 

It could be awesome! It could be crap! We don't know! Stay tuned to find out!

[Mobius0288]

Do you guys think the new vehicle rules for firing heavy weapons without the -1 to hit, if they move, will let the Corvus see more games?

I for one will see if I can make a decent list with my 3 Corvus. =)

Considering it's our main transport as well, it's likely.

 

Its still gonna be susceptible to str 8 and higher weapons so it may still get shot down quickly against armies with lots of cheap big guns (dunecrawlers, tanks, etc.). I think it has a bit more of a chance, plus you could zoom it off for a turn - strategically bailing on a kill team to fight on another flank, or just saving it for a later turn while another unit puts down the anti-flyer guns.

 

I still wish it was just a little cheaper, even with the slightly smaller scale of the games/point adjustments.

 

And we gotta keep an eye out for the new minus to hit adjustments (heard it would be capped) they made, to see if landraiders are better off or not. They got pretty powerful as well being to shoot in close combat, making them equally potent for transporting while still being useful at the front.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Mobius0288

[GrinNfool]

Do you guys think the new vehicle rules for firing heavy weapons without the -1 to hit, if they move, will let the Corvus see more games?

I for one will see if I can make a decent list with my 3 Corvus. =)

Its hard to speculate on units w/ just so much unknown not the least of which is how flyers function or points costs.  The heavy weapon rule is a step in the right direction but its one thing of many that needs to work for the models to become good, but hey 1 step in the right direction is still good so no reason to be pessimistic about it atm, just not enough info to make an evaluation.  Heck even land raiders look plausible now with vehicles shooting in combat if we evaluated them currently, but again hard to speculate with no points info or possible rule changes that 9th inevitably has left to reveal.

 

Will say my personal feelings about 9th concerning DW is cautiously optimistic, that could all come crashing down as more info comes out, but right now, most of the new stuff revealed is good for DW.

[angrom]

 

 

Will say my personal feelings about 9th concerning DW is cautiously optimistic, that could all come crashing down as more info comes out, but right now, most of the new stuff revealed is good for DW.

 

I am kind of at the other side of the spectrum on that.

I feel that the more is revealed and the less the 9th edition will be a healthy meta for us.

The fact that we are working better with units of 10 without being hordes is already making us more vulnerable to blast weapons

but also we are lacking on the long range anti-tank firepower and the 9th seems more like super mobile high firepower vehicle spam to me.

[Brother Cruoris]

Statistically it's not a huge difference with the blast. Average is 4.0 hits instead of 3.5 hits per d6.

[RandyB]

I was already considering a fluffy army built around an Air Wing detachment of three Blackstars. That one change announced for 9th has reinforced my intent.

[Daynga-Zone]

I’m excited that tomorrow’s info is about flyers. I’ve been thinking about getting a couple of Xiphons for my DW anti-tank or maybe a Corvus to drop off some frag cannons. If it can start off not on the board and fly in to deposit the unit that would be amazing.

 

I had been working on a successor chapter to help out our vehicles, but I’m starting to lean back towards just going mono DW and working around our issues. Especially if we get some of my favorite Phobos units like eliminators and incivictors. Maybe a bit more of the stuff normal chapters got like the upgraded HQs and our own psychic discipline or access to a spell from one of the others for a CP would be nice.

[Xisor]

Don't forget that 8th Ed's Codex included, what, two, three pages of 'new' narrative.

 

And by new, I mean not word-for-word reprint of 7th shuffled with some other art.

 

And the least interesting, least '8th-themed' way of including Primaris.

 

---

 

They might pull something nice out, though. I'd genuinely like it to be, but 8th was essentially a non-entity for DW as far as my enjoyment went. As it rolled on, the 'fixes' to 8th Ed problems were basically antithetical to the concept of DW deployments as they had been before.

 

Which is a damn shame.

 

I'm not a fan of just deploying a big, relatively uniform, DW-only army, I guess. 

[leth]

I hope we get access to the vanguard and bikers. Imagine primaris units that have the biker equivalent added. 
 

New flier rules and modifiers have me tentatively interested in the corvus again now that lack of machine spirit isn’t as hard hitting. 
 

[Stargate_wars]

I hope we get access to the vanguard and bikers. Imagine primaris units that have the biker equivalent added.

 

New flier rules and modifiers have me tentatively interested in the corvus again now that lack of machine spirit isn’t as hard hitting.

 

I don’t see Deathwatch getting any of the vanguard due to the left shoulder pad being moulded in with the cloaks that most of them have.

Only the Lt, Suppressors, Infiltrators and Incursors have none covered left shoulder pads so unless they have made a convert sprue that gives us Deathwatch pads under cloaks the best they can do is give us the Infiltrators and Incursors.

Edited June 13, 2020 by Stargate_wars

[leth]

If they go away from that stupid design philosophy with the new edition then I don’t see anything preventing us for getting a lot of the stuff going forward. From the sounds of things they have been thinking about what to do with deathwatch for awhile. 

[Black Knight]

All the new models have fixed shoulder pads so time to get the knife out, or not at all if they don't give us the units in the new box.

[Lord Commander Vulkus Dorn]

Well with the word from the FAQ chat, DW, as well as everyone else, has access to all the new models in the forthcoming Indomitus set. Now, it’s no different from the release of DI. You just had to do a little surgery to remove the pads you wanted to change. I usually replace both so that the blues have more character. I’ve even done left pad swaps on my BAs too but that has nothing to do with this. My point is that it is entirely possible to give these new marines DW pads if you have them laying around