New codex coming soon after 9th ed drops

[RandyB]

Just revealed in the Twitch stream that rules for DW are in the new Space marine codex.

 

Cant say Im comfortable with this reveal. My worries is that we being the smallest (and most neglected IMHO) we get like one page of rules.

 

Also revealed on the preview page on WarCom that we will get a Codex Supplement, too.

[Roland Durendal]

Yeah they’re getting rid of individual codexes itnseems and just giving unique chapters “supplements”.

 

One more step to make all marines marines of a different color with no real unique identity

[Rikev]

I was able to zoom in on the video and our Chapter Tactic is basically Mission Tactics with the addition that it also works in melee against Xenos regardless of battlefield role. Couldn't see anything about changing our Mission Tactics.

[6262]

My main question is does that mean the full line of units opens up to the watch? Sure we get our unique stuff but would we suddenly get all the codex stuff as well?

[Daynga-Zone]

With us getting all of the Indomitus units that may mean the end of restrictions for us, then again they may just list what units we can/can’t take in the codex or supplement.

 

It definitely makes all the phobos units more likely.

 

I wonder what this will mean for SIA, looks like mission tactics was folded in as our chapter tactic. SIA could be our super doctrine, but that wouldn’t be ideal if it only activated in certain rounds like most super doctrines.

 

Also hope we can still bring mixed kill teams. That’s my favorite part about DW.

Edited July 25, 2020 by Daynga-Zone

[6262]

That would almost certainly be one of our extra units. I'm caught in the middle of a white Scars and Deathwatch crisis of directions as I need to know which way to focus and I doubt I'll know till the dexes come out.

[Inquisitor Eisenhorn]

Super glad to hear it sounds as if this means the phobos units will finally be made available.  Now let's see if they end the nonsense about Primaris and the Blackstar. 

[angrom]

It also sounds like we will get access to everything including space marine units that were forbidden to us. I fear though that we will lose SIA entirely in the process and with it our identity.

[leth]

I doubt it, I think a lot of those books have tons of unique units, I am not worried

[Brother Tyler]

One more step to make all marines marines of a different color with no real unique identity

 

This is patently false. If the only rules and background for the various Chapters were those presented in Codex: Space Marines, your argument might be valid. As it is, each of the current codex supplements provides considerable lore and, arguably, sufficient rules to represent how the various Chapters they cover are distinct from pure vanilla Space Marines and what might be allowed solely by Chapter Tactics. Each of the codex supplements uses the core units in Codex: Space Marines, but each has its own stuff that sets it apart. Not all Chapters are equally different from the standard, but each is clearly different from what the basic rules allow. The four Chapters affected by this edition's consolidation (Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Deathwatch, and Space Wolves) are sure to see some level of loss, but each of these has considerably more distinctiveness than the other First Founding Chapters, so their codex supplements will preserve the vast majority of that distinctiveness, if not all of it. Anything that GW might streamline into the norm could be lost under the previous codex structure, too, so the codex supplement structure doesn't inherently create any loss of distinctiveness. The only Chapter for which the "no real unique identity" complaint has any validity is the Black Templars, who don't have a codex supplement, leaving them with the few pages of material that is provided in Codex: Space Marines. Were the Black Templars to be given a codex supplement of their own (a full codex supplement, not a White Dwarf Magazine Index Astartes article/codex supplement), they would have all of the distinctiveness of their previous incarnations, equal to that of any of the other Chapters that have a full codex supplement.

 

The Deathwatch have the least to lose in the codex supplement structure, and there is actually potential for them to be given something more than they currently have. Realistically, the Deathwatch are likely to come out looking very good with this change.

[Gederas]

One more step to make all marines marines of a different color with no real unique identity

 This is patently false. If the only rules and background for the various Chapters were those presented in Codex: Space Marines, your argument might be valid. As it is, each of the current codex supplements provides considerable lore and, arguably, sufficient rules to represent how the various Chapters they cover are distinct from pure vanilla Space Marines and what might be allowed solely by Chapter Tactics. Each of the codex supplements uses the core units in Codex: Space Marines, but each has its own stuff that sets it apart. Not all Chapters are equally different from the standard, but each is clearly different from what the basic rules allow. The four Chapters affected by this edition's consolidation (Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Deathwatch, and Space Wolves) are sure to see some level of loss, but each of these has considerably more distinctiveness than the other First Founding Chapters, so their codex supplements will preserve the vast majority of that distinctiveness, if not all of it. Anything that GW might streamline into the norm could be lost under the previous codex structure, too, so the codex supplement structure doesn't inherently create any loss of distinctiveness. The only Chapter for which the "no real unique identity" complaint has any validity is the Black Templars, who don't have a codex supplement, leaving them with the few pages of material that is provided in Codex: Space Marines. Were the Black Templars to be given a codex supplement of their own (a full codex supplement, not a White Dwarf Magazine Index Astartes article/codex supplement), they would have all of the distinctiveness of their previous incarnations, equal to that of any of the other Chapters that have a full codex supplement.

 

The Deathwatch have the least to lose in the codex supplement structure, and there is actually potential for them to be given something more than they currently have. Realistically, the Deathwatch are likely to come out looking very good with this change.

Yup yup.

 

This is from the playester in my discord:

 

"To clarify, all of the marine codexes that have a supplement will maintain their own whereas blood angels, deathwatch, dark angels and space wolves will get their own separate things after but their core differences will be contained in the new marine dex. Ie their new chapter tactics but not the normal supplement stuff. Grey knights are totally separate and will have different keywords but all other loyalist marines will share a base set of rules."

 

It's a supplement/super supplement in a sense for the 4 Codex chapters (except Grey Knights :cuss them apparently? )

[Brother Tyler]

Well, the Grey Knights are so different from the norm that they can't be consolidated - not until they get Primaris battle-brothers (which, owing to their distinctive appearance, is more of a modelling challenge than anything). Also, the Grey Knights aren't organized or equipped the way other Chapters are. They'll retain their own codex for the obvious reasons. That's a discussion for the Grey Knights forum.

 

The Deathwatch don't have that problem. They definitely have their distinctive elements, but it will be very easy to preserve those distinctive elements in the codex supplement construct.

[Irbis]

Yeah they’re getting rid of individual codexes itnseems and just giving unique chapters “supplements”.

 

One more step to make all marines marines of a different color with no real unique identity

You are aware this is how Horus Heresy rules work and if anything, Legions in it have even more unique stuff than Chapters do now?

[olsol]

From the trailer you can actually see the new Deathwatch rules from the codex!!! And we actually get some new rules too!

 

Deathwatch: Xenos Hunters

- Each time a model with this tactic makes a melee attack against a TYRANIDS, AELDARI, ORKS, NECRONS or T'AU EMPIRE unit, re-roll a hit roll of 1.

- After both sides have finished deploying their armies, select one Battlefield Role. Until the end of the battle, each time a model with this tactic makes an attack against an enemy unit with that Battlefield Role, re-roll a wound roll of 1.

[Lemondish]

Yeah they’re getting rid of individual codexes itnseems and just giving unique chapters “supplements”.

 

One more step to make all marines marines of a different color with no real unique identity

I'm not sure how this is any different than it is today.

[Irbis]

From the trailer you can actually see the new Deathwatch rules from the codex!!! And we actually get some new rules too!

 

Deathwatch: Xenos Hunters

- Each time a model with this tactic makes a melee attack against a TYRANIDS, AELDARI, ORKS, NECRONS or T'AU EMPIRE unit, re-roll a hit roll of 1.

- After both sides have finished deploying their armies, select one Battlefield Role. Until the end of the battle, each time a model with this tactic makes an attack against an enemy unit with that Battlefield Role, re-roll a wound roll of 1.

 

I don't like this. First, because melee bonus added to a faction with primary focus on shooting just won't synergise. It would be like giving Black Templars minor bonus to shooting - most of the time, completely useless. But never mind not fitting well with SIA, there is also idiotic primaris anti-melee rule focus. Why the hell only Intercessor sergeant has keys to armoury, especially melee section, is a disgrace. Why you can't give Reiver sergeant power sword/fist (or for that matter, xenophase weapon?), when they are  current main DW primaris melee unit, and even scouts, who lack power amour or power source, can do it? Why DW Vanguard Vets are the only ones in existence with cut melee weapon access? Only Kelly/Cruddace know. Anyway, the point is, much like a vehicle that can readily carry bikes (but cannot take primaris, apparently these dudes are bigger than squatmarine and bike combined), this IMO shows little thought put to the rules and how they fit together. DW should feel like SM veterans, and doing it by giving them bonus to a handful of factions (which also makes the game harder to balance, bonuses should be 'blind' if at all possible) is terrible way to do it.

 

As for being rolled into supplement, I am mildly optimistic. Particularly if it means idiotic Kelly/Cruddace era restrictions (looking at you, termie and dreadnought weapons) going away. I really hope this part is gone (though I won't be surprised if it isn't). I just wonder what fluff mangling we will see to go with it. Deathwatch being divided into 100 strong companies? Employing tactical squads? Having lieutenants (not that I object to LT-like unit, I just wish it had fluffy name fitting DW structure)? On the other hand, it might mean DW will finally get access to SM flyers, lack of which was by far one of the most nonsensical things in current book. I also really hope DW will get access to stuff from other chapters, it makes no sense DW managed to miniaturize frag cannons but cannot mount them on their dreadnoughts (or BA jump squads taking plasma/melta guns, then instantly forgetting how to do it once they join DW). We'll see I guess.

[Brother Tyler]

If the Imperial Fists codex supplement (the only one I have) is anything to go by, the better rules for any Chapter will be presented in the codex supplement. These will be in addition to the less sexy rules that appear in the codex. For example, the Imperial Fists have the Siege Masters Chapter Tactic in Codex: Space Marines. This is an okay rule. When using the codex supplement and your [imperial Fists] army is Battle-forged, you also get the Legacy of Dorn rule. So if the transcription above is correct, the Deathwatch will see their better rules in the codex supplement.

 

And of course, there will also be the Warlord Traits, Strategems, etc., which will most likely be very close to what the Deathwatch currently have, though anything that duplicates something in Codex: Space Marines should be changed, replaced, or removed.

[Azaiel]

I´m going to wait for both books before I buy anything else for my Deathwatch force. The emperor knows I got enough already to paint! (and Orks!)

 

We don´t know what unit restrictions we are going to get, if any. Also I want to see what special rules we get in codex + supplement and how they will synergize with available units. I just hope GW gives us a time in the spotlight this time with some new minis and maybe a primaris upgrade sprue. Gimme a deathwatch shoulder pad for redemptor dreadnought.

[bortbortbort]

... Gimme a deathwatch shoulder pad for redemptor dreadnought.

You can find them on shapeways. I made mine out of green stuff though... Was a fun project (cut a negative from cardboard and filled with green stuff. Looks decent)