9th rule: modifiers capped at -/+ 1

[Medjugorje]

It should be a limit on defence stacking. If you move with a heavy weapon that should not count towards stacking.

but not the cheapest way. +2 and -2 would have been a great thing. I hope there are other rules for heavy weapons in this game but I dont expect that.

Edited May 31, 2020 by Medjugorje

[Bat33.1]

Still it's perfectly possible that GW just messed up hardcore and didn't think any of this through totally.

 This would not be the first time GW have messed up a big edition change - Anybody here play AoS and remember 2nd edition? 

 

it was possible for a single Grot to be buffed up to 128 damage! It was all kinds of chaos at early V2 events until GW FAQ'ed it so hard within weeks it was a new game. 

 

Is it possible they have missed a bunch of rules interactions? Absolutely. Will they react and sweep up the mess they left? Yes, but they will probably still leave some bits in the corners they missed.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Keep speculating ...

[Medjugorje]

Pretty sure I saw in the new ad mech preview that the flier gets a -2 to hit if it advances. It's in its data sheet. It can advance and fire Las canons, but if it does it suffers a -2 to hit. This means 1 of two things: either GW didn't have 9th in mind quite as much as they claim, or negatives to hit can stack from outside sources and it's just that an army can't buff it's own units more than 1. Either one is quite possible. However circumstantial evidence seems to indicate the stacking as more likely, as why mention that all armies hit on 6's if -1 was the worst that shooting could ever get?

 

Still it's perfectly possible that GW just messed up hardcore and didn't think any of this through totally.

that would be my hope. But i expect something different because GW want that game much more easier (sadly).

[Bat33.1]

Keep speculating ...

That's all we can do.

 

GW opened the shutters a fraction to let in some light, showed us some stuff they said would be cool then promptly closed the shutters leaving us in the dark to build up our own hype and excitement ready to throw our bank accounts open for 9th edition.

 

I am hopeful they will have fixed some of the issues of 8th and look forward to them putting some more details in the wild soon

[Subtleknife]

They have just clarified on stream only +1 or -1 to hit. If you are -2 to hit and your oppo has +1 then it does interact as it brings it to -1 to hit.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

So in the case above if you’re not +1 to hit the modifier would be -2 to hit ?

[Brother Casman]

So in the case above if you’re not +1 to hit the modifier would be -2 to hit ?

No, it would only be -1 to hit.

Edited June 1, 2020 by Brother Casman
typos

[emperorpants]

They have just clarified on stream only +1 or -1 to hit. If you are -2 to hit and your oppo has +1 then it does interact as it brings it to -1 to hit.

Then once again, GW was full of   when they said they had 9th in mind for the current PA books. I'm referring to the flier for Admech suffering -2 to hit for advancing and firing in its rules, which is going to be invalidated several weeks after the book releases. Really, REALLY sloppy. This makes GW's claims that they had 9th in mind for the space marine codex and supplements even more dubious.

 

Also, it's really dumb that heavy weapons that move won't suffer any penalty to hit fliers. This seems like a bit of an over reaction to the Eldar flier problem.

[Khornestar]

Again, is there a recording of this stream?

 

The way the frater described it above, it still doesn't answer the issue definitively (nor can it be until the new edition is released).

 

For example, if it's only +1 or -1 to hit, how could there be a situation where you're -2 to hit? Perhaps if there's a line that says: "Regardless of how many modifiers you have stacked, a unit can only ever benefit from +1 or suffer -1 to its hit rolls"? Something like that?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Yeah the explanation is confusing and does not really address the question.

[Brother Casman]

The latest stream can be found at Twitch

[Brother Casman]

Anyway, my understanding is that the existing modifiers will still all apply, but when you go to make a dice roll, the negative or positive modifier is capped at -1/+1.

 

So, for example, if you have +2 to hit, your dice rolls will only get +1. That said, if you have +2 to hit, and your opponent has a -1 to hit effect in play, then you'll still have +1 to hit.

 

I'm hopeful that GW will make this clear in the new Core Rules, with some good examples.

[Ishagu]

So if I'm advancing with my Dread and decide to pop smoke, my opponent can use this opportunity to move all his heavy weapons and target the Dread without further penalty.

 

Basically the opponent is getting a free move without penalty.

[Subtleknife]

Again, is there a recording of this stream?

 

The way the frater described it above, it still doesn't answer the issue definitively (nor can it be until the new edition is released).

 

For example, if it's only +1 or -1 to hit, how could there be a situation where you're -2 to hit? Perhaps if there's a line that says: "Regardless of how many modifiers you have stacked, a unit can only ever benefit from +1 or suffer -1 to its hit rolls"? Something like that?

So you can still stack a -2 to hit. However the max it can effect for is -1. The -2 would only come into account if the opponent had a +1 to hit as this would still mean the max modifier is still 1

[Khornestar]

That would make sense.

 

As for the “lameness” of allowing a penalty-free move, so to speak, another way of looking at it is that it is not purely a benefit, as it would have been if things stacked beyond +/-1.

 

I know that is a bitter taste, call it unfair, whatever you like. Doesn’t bother me, personally. Way too many modifiers currently stacking with a d6 system, for my taste.

 

Of course we are also assuming that the current -1 hit penalty for moving and shooting heavy weapons will still be in effect. For all we know they could go back to snap shots.

[Panzer]

So if I'm advancing with my Dread and decide to pop smoke, my opponent can use this opportunity to move all his heavy weapons and target the Dread without further penalty.

 

Basically the opponent is getting a free move without penalty.

 

Technically yes, but practically it would be dumb since you could also just not move and shoot without penalty at something else.

[Khornestar]

Haha that is also a good point.

[Ishagu]

Well it just means I've made my opponent's decision easy for him.

 

Perhaps he had units that were out of LoS, and it wasn't worth moving them to get a shot because they'd hit on 5s. Now he may as well move them, ignoring the negative modifier heavy weapons impose.

[Panzer]

Well it just means I've made my opponent's decision easy for him.

 

Perhaps he had units that were out of LoS, and it wasn't worth moving them to get a shot because they'd hit on 5s. Now he may as well move them, ignoring the negative modifier heavy weapons impose.

 

I mean ... there could be worse things than an opponent not shooting at the model you just used an ability on that's supposed to let it survive that turn.

 

At worst nothing changed for your opponent. He'd get the -1 to hit against that Dread one way or another. At best your smokescreen worked as intended and your Dread survives.

As you like to say, it's all just abstract. A unit moving and shooting with heavy weapons is already just aiming roughly at their target and further adverse circumstances aren't changing that any further.

Edited June 1, 2020 by Panzer

[War Angel]

Once upon a time you couldn’t move a hair and shoot a heavy weapon. Then you could do it and still hit on a 6. Now it’s just a -1 penalty. My how things change.

[Panzer]

Once upon a time 2000p on the table didn't look like half an Apoc game either. :D

[Brother Casman]

One thing to keep in mind is that wargear might be changing too - smoke launchers might get a rework to obscure the vehicle, for example.

 

Admittedly, I have nothing to base this on, other than the knowledge that Blast weapons are coming back in some form - which means that all codexes are getting a day 1 update/faq to adjust their weapons. GW might make other tweaks at the same time.

 

We don't have all of the details at the moment, so I'd be hesitant to jump to conclusions regarding movement and shooting in the new edition.

[Medjugorje]

I hope that flyer gain the ability that your bs is treated as 6+

[War Angel]

I hope that flyer gain the ability that your bs is treated as 6+

So a step backwards? To how it was when they first came out?