Black Templar Community Feedback

[Crovan]

I have four Land Raiders would be a big reason for me :p. Being able to take Primaris in them would actually incentivize me to buy more Primaris.

[BitsHammer]

 

 

 

I am going to bting up that they gave the Silver Templars Land Raiders

Whoa whoa, hold up, say what? Why? How? The Silver Templars are Primaris only right? Why do they have Land Raiders? Even so they're only a paint scheme chapter right, so they have no way to field them in game?

 

Still, that's the first I heard of that

When GW published their chapter organization in their supplement stuff it clearly says they have Land Raiders.

 

 

>

 

 

I am going to bting up that they gave the Silver Templars Land Raiders

Whoa whoa, hold up, say what? Why? How? The Silver Templars are Primaris only right? Why do they have Land Raiders? Even so they're only a paint scheme chapter right, so they have no way to field them in game?

 

Still, that's the first I heard of that

Silver Templars have a named lieutenant character datasheet, but otherwise play as ultramarine successors. But canonically they are primaris 100%

 

That being said they also use scouts, and land raiders apparently. so I'm not sure what to believe anynore

According to the Space Marine codex every chapter uses their Primaris trainees first as scouts, then as Phobos clad Vanguards. Basically Primaris get extra training over Classic Marines.

I'm confused as to why anyone running primaris would choose land raiders over repulsors?

 

I get that the LRC is iconic for Templars but in the same sense primaris have, at least up until this newest release, been entirely tacticool and not at all Templar.

 

Hence the hundreds of threads with people converting them! You could just do the same with a repulsor.

 

Is there some reason to use primaris with a land raider that I'm missing?

It holds 12 models and has a strat that turns off Overwatch against models that disembark it.

[Hymnblade]

There's no fluff reason that Primaris marines can't use Land Raiders. If Centurions can fit, Tacticus armor definitely can. It's just a gameplay restriction for, uh, reasons.

[ThirtySixNights]

It's not a gameplay restriction. It's very clearly a design decision.

 

There's no compatibility between primaris and classic marines.

 

If primaris were too powerful to be in land raiders, why are classic marines also too powerful to be in repulsors.

 

I think in time this design decision may show what it's for, or it may end up being for no reason at all.

[BitsHammer]

The restriction isn't because of power. It's more likelt because of the community wide panic attack that occured when GW started releasing Primaris.

[Champion Rawne]

The restriction is there to sell as many of the new vehicles as possible.  

Edited May 28, 2020 by Champion Rawne

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

Crusaders can hold 16 units, not 12. And the choice to not allow Primaris to ride in them was indeed a cash grab. GW is a fairly short sighted company at times, and likely didn't realize that hammering a giant rules wedge between their new and old marine factions would cause a significant portion of their fan base to pull further away from Primaris rather than buying in.

[BitsHammer]

Crusaders can hold 16 units, not 12. And the choice to not allow Primaris to ride in them was indeed a cash grab. GW is a fairly short sighted company at times, and likely didn't realize that hammering a giant rules wedge between their new and old marine factions would cause a significant portion of their fan base to pull further away from Primaris rather than buying in.

My apologies, can't think of why my brain went to 12 there.

[Medjugorje]

Depending on how "wishlist" we want to go, I would like our super-doctrine to be actually exciting, because right now, I very often stay in tactical doctrine turn 3 because Assault just doesn't help me. It's way too restricted (wait until Assault, only when charging, and not against vehicles) for such a numerically weak effect. Either let it work on vehicles, or make it do something like auto-wound AND improved AP on that hit, or auto-wound AND +1 damage.

??? In Assault doctrine you have -ap AND auto-wound.

[Hymnblade]

Yes, and every weapon that achieves much already has AP3 and S8, so the buff doesn't much matter. Meanwhile, I have a lot of bolter fire.

 

Edit: for clarity, I mean something like AP3 for that hit, a la the old rending rule. The doctrine seems designed to make chainswords dangerous, it just doesn't do enough to actually accomplish that.

Edited May 28, 2020 by Hymnblade

[BitsHammer]

I think GW is trying to keep all the melee chapters feeling unique, but ours does feel a bit meh. I'd rather trade it for a Vows table we can pick from (pick one, or roll 2) after deployment but before the first turn of the game.

[Medjugorje]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfmX1Otey14&t=1s#

 

a punch into each of us.

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

Kid doesn't know anything about BT. 

[Medjugorje]

Kid doesn't know anything about BT. 

yes. Just two units he decided to showing up and both handled wrong. The emperors champion have Str 7 and 7 attacks against characters and Helbrechts have still the better rerolls.

[BitsHammer]

He says a lot, but does 't explain any real reasons "why". So many words but no real explinations on why he makes the choices he does.

 

Basically just ignore it. There is a reason he is an "almost" pro.

[Sete]

Now I hope that with this release we get the other half of our supplement, and proper strats for melee play with primaris.

[BitsHammer]

Now I hope that with this release we get the other half of our supplement, and proper strats for melee play with primaris.

I feel like our supplement won't be right away. All the stuff in PA likely has a longer lead time on it than the stuff in the WD.

[BitsHammer]

Alright, since I have tomorrow off, I'll be sitting down to write this then, but before I do: any feedback about our special characters?

[Marshal Reinhard]

Just that they need to be updated with the times. That means new plastic (primaris models) and rules that reflect that. Make sure helbrecht is brought in line to have the right number of wounds and attacks as other (primaris) chapter masters. also that reroll abilities are on the same level. That is my desired feedback for characters anyway

[Sword Brother Adelard]

We should also have access to a few bits from the IF supplement to bring us in line with every other chapter, (especially CF!) so three strats:

 

Option for two warlord traits

Founding relics

Special issue wargear.

[SydonianDragoon404]

Yes, and every weapon that achieves much already has AP3 and S8, so the buff doesn't much matter. Meanwhile, I have a lot of bolter fire.

 

Edit: for clarity, I mean something like AP3 for that hit, a la the old rending rule. The doctrine seems designed to make chainswords dangerous, it just doesn't do enough to actually accomplish that.

I don't agree with this at all. I've used our super doctrine to great effect with Intercessors, Vanguard Veterans, and Aggressors. Skipping the wound roll is a huge deal for weapons that ARE NOT strength 8. 

 

We are literally getting the "superhuman strength" stratagem for free here. I can't remember what exactly its called but it costs 2CP, and is one of the most useful stratagems in the codex. It's the only reason why I was able to once down a Hive Tyrant with some Intercessors.

[Hymnblade]

Skipping the wound roll is a huge deal for weapons that ARE NOT strength 8. 

 

We are literally getting the "superhuman strength" stratagem for free here.

The stratagem is only good against high-Toughness targets, but our doctrine specifically doesn't work on most of those. It's nice against Tyranid monsters or Tau battlesuits, but that's a weird and fairly narrow niche. On infantry, which is usually the only thing you can use it on, it's simply a weak buff even for the weapons it's aimed at (numerically weaker than any other assault doctrine), and does essentially nothing for our strongest units.

 

Admittedly, with Assault Intercessors and Bladeguard Veterans, we may have some units that hit at S4 and are actually good in melee, rather than merely passable, so auto-wounds will have more impact. So maybe the numerical impact will be better than it is with current units. I still think the vehicle restriction needs to go away though: if it's supposed to make chainswords more effective against high-toughness targets, let it actually do that.

[Punchomatic]

We should also have access to a few bits from the IF supplement to bring us in line with every other chapter, (especially CF!) so three strats:

 

Option for two warlord traits

Founding relics

Special issue wargear.

If we get a fully fleshed out codex I don’t mind not getting IF stuff but yes.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I don't see us ever getting anything more than a proper supplement. But, considering the quality of the supplements, I don't mind that. It's arguably better to be in that position, than where SW, BA and DA are these days.

[Medjugorje]

thats correct. I just want the same treatment as all other first founding chapters have.