9th edition changes

[Bulwyf]

So in the stream today they specifically said the changes to morale phase with combat attrition will directly make Night Lords better with our legion trait. No further details were given but my guess is that morale has been changed from save or die to slow attrition.

 

Our legion trait would theoretically make more models run each turn. What specific changes to morale would you guys want to see? 

[Captain Incompetence]

I just don't like the extremely binary way in which morale works in 8th. It's just not a fun phase in my opinion. Removing models from a bad dice roll happens, but it always feels crap in the morale phase, even if it happens to my opponent.

 

I personally would like to see the leadership stat just being used for more things than just the morale checks in general. Want to retreat out of combat? Take a leadership test!

I also think that it would be neat if you had a much harder to make leadership test for morale in general, but the outcomes could be less severe than straight up losing models. For example you could make it that a failure of -1 or -2 gives you a movement penalty as the unit realizes they're in an extremely precarious situation and aren't going to be jogging across the battlefield without worry. Other failures could grant minus-to-hit penalties to the unit or In more extreme failures, your unit could be become completely pinned and unable to perform actions this round or something.

 

I'm not sure if people would like that sort of gameplay though, or if it would slow down the game too much, but I do think everything is better than the way morale works in 8th edition. It does sound like they're fleshing it out much more in 9th, so I'm cautiously optimistic.

 

 

[Doom Herald]

I wonder if it will be something similar to how a kill team breaks, but on the scale of a unit being broke.

 

Edit: it also says that modifiers will cap at +/- 1 in 9th. I'm really, really, not happy about that, especially if applied to LD penalties.

Edited May 27, 2020 by Doom Herald

[Gederas]

I wonder if it will be something similar to how a kill team breaks, but on the scale of a unit being broke.

 

Edit: it also says that modifiers will cap at +/- 1 in 9th. I'm really, really, not happy about that, especially is if applied to LD penalties.

The cap at +/- 1 was referring to +/-  To Hit. Because no one enjoyed the Eldar builds that got -4 to hit. :lol:

[Doom Herald]

Did they say it only applies to to hit rolls?

 

Honestly, I was stacking those in my NL army to good effect. As one of the nice gimmicks we had, I dont like that it will be gone.

[Doom Herald]

Can anyone give me a link to the primary source? I can't find it, so currently I'm going off of articles from other parties discussing it.

[Bulwyf]

I just don't like the extremely binary way in which morale works in 8th. It's just not a fun phase in my opinion. Removing models from a bad dice roll happens, but it always feels crap in the morale phase, even if it happens to my opponent.

 

I personally would like to see the leadership stat just being used for more things than just the morale checks in general. Want to retreat out of combat? Take a leadership test!

I also think that it would be neat if you had a much harder to make leadership test for morale in general, but the outcomes could be less severe than straight up losing models. For example you could make it that a failure of -1 or -2 gives you a movement penalty as the unit realizes they're in an extremely precarious situation and aren't going to be jogging across the battlefield without worry. Other failures could grant minus-to-hit penalties to the unit or In more extreme failures, your unit could be become completely pinned and unable to perform actions this round or something.

 

I'm not sure if people would like that sort of gameplay though, or if it would slow down the game too much, but I do think everything is better than the way morale works in 8th edition. It does sound like they're fleshing it out much more in 9th, so I'm cautiously optimistic.

 

 

 

 

I would like to see our legion trait mean something. Anything. Right now in 8th it is completely useless. There are so many ways to ignore morale including whole armies that are immune to it completely. NL have the only truly useless army trait in the entire game. I'm hoping 9th makes it mean something.

Can anyone give me a link to the primary source? I can't find it, so currently I'm going off of articles from other parties discussing it.

 

it was the twitch stream yesterday. The GW devs referred to the cap in their example to hit. They did not specify that I remember that it included all +1/-1 to all phases of the game. 

[Doom Herald]

That still also takes away our ability to stack +1s to hit for improving Death to the False Emperor odds, meaning a NL Nurgle Fist Lord will no longer be as reliably able to drop an Imperial Knight like before.

[Doom Herald]

In an indirect way, it's kind of a to buff power fist and thunderhammers since they will be hitting on the same roll as a model with a regular CC weapon against units with -1 to be hit. It will be interesting to see how it works out.

 

Currently, this one rule change is going to force a lot of change to my army, but hopefully new morale will make up for it.

Edited May 27, 2020 by Doom Herald

[Marshal Loss]

Very curious to see where this will leave the also infamously terribad trait of my beloved Word Bearers...

 

...although I still hope it gets a substantive revamp when our 9th ed book comes around.

[Doom Herald]

The changes to CPs will be a big change too, by the way it sounds. From what I can find, your base CP will be determined by the size armies being used, not detachments. If they allow us to use the same detachments that we have currently, that will unshackle us from Cultists and CSM squads. Personally, I'd much rather run an outrider detachment with Spawn and maybe Raptors (especially if morale is getting changed) than take troop tax. From what I can find on the Q&A though, they artfully avoided saying whether or not you would still need troops. Edited May 27, 2020 by Doom Herald

[Captain_Krash]

We are so screwed

 

Much higher points costs for our Warp Talons. Why did you do this GW? Why?
-Multi-charges are now much more difficult, which hurts assault-oriented armies such as ours

Krash

Edited August 10, 2020 by Captain_Krash

[Tallarn Commander]

Krash,

Why do you think this is the case. For the Night Lords, I see a more complicated picture. 9th brings both good and bad for those of us who seek to avenge Night Haunter's fall.

-Much higher points costs for our Warp Talons. Why did you do this GW? Why?
-Multi-charges are now much more difficult, which hurts assault-oriented armies such as ours

Morale pretty much is a non-issue in both editions. My Night Lords terror tricks hardly ever killed anyone is 8th and it looks like they will be equally useless in 9th. Our Raptors can no longer jump out of melee and then shoot. But my Raptors are usually too busy being dead the turn after they enter melee so this is a non-issue for me.

But on the plus side 9th Edition gives us some nifty stuff:
-We get to outflank whatever we want. This is very fluffy for the sneaky and fast Night Lords. It reminds me a bit of the old stealth upgrade that Night Lords got in the 3.5 dex when we could pay points to infiltrate infantry units.
-Overwatch has been nerfed! Huzzah!
-The terrain rules should make it easier for our assault units to get into melee
-We get plenty of CP so it should be easier to unlock things like Host Raptorial.

Night Lords, and CSM in general, are probably going to be sub-par in competitive environments, but this was already the case in 8th.

Edited July 19, 2020 by Tallarn Commander

[Doom Herald]

Except, now Host Raptorial is dead with all specialist detachments.

[Tallarn Commander]

Why did you drop specialist detachments GW? Host Raptorial and Soulforged Detachments were fun, balanced, and fluffy for my Chaos armies.

 

Now if I want to reliably get a charge out of deepstrike I'll have to take Warp Talons (which underwent a stunning 88% points hike in this edition) and I'll have to burn a CP on Raptor Strike.

 

Sigh.

[Gordon Shumway]

Just a pure guess here, but I’m thinking they are going to be coming out with new detachments with the new codexes to balance them with the new system a bit, but more importantly, give buyers a reason to buy the new things. Host raptorial (or some equivalent) will likely make a return. Also, I’m pretty sure that warp talon cost just hadn’t factored in the weapons to the Datasheets. 

Edited July 23, 2020 by Gordon Shumway

[Doom Herald]

That's not what the field manual reflects. It's unfortunate that it appears that GW thinks that 1 Warp Talon is worth more points than 1 Chaos Spawn.

[MegaVolt87]

Just a pure guess here, but I’m thinking they are going to be coming out with new detachments with the new codexes to balance them with the new system a bit, but more importantly, give buyers a reason to buy the new things. Host raptorial (or some equivalent) will likely make a return. Also, I’m pretty sure that warp talon cost just hadn’t factored in the weapons to the Datasheets. 

 

As long as detachments are banned in tourny play, its going to rule them out for a lot of people who play matched, as that stuff has an over flow for a lot of people. Better to just roll out extra stratagems, relics and warlord traits outside of detachments- like how all the loyalist stuff was detached from detachments. 

Edited July 29, 2020 by MegaVolt87