9th Ed Speculation Thread

[Doom Herald]

CSM is the angsty black sheep of the family that's so obviously your kid that you can't completely ignore. They give us stuff to make it look like they're a good parent, but it generally lacks sincere effort, lol.

 

I don't expect GW to do anything more than they have to for CSM. We'll keep on keeping on because were hooked on that 40k needle and we will probably keep producing unexpected weird high performance armies. I always think about quitting, but I kind of like the challenge and forced creativity that getting continually screwed makes for. Deep breaths, good whiskey, and blood of the servants of the corpse emperor shall sustain me.

 

On a happy note, am I the only one thinking Red Corsairs look really strong with the extra CP production now that baseline all armies will start with the same?

[Schurge]

I expect that the Red Corsair's CP generation will likely be neutered. I know they said Faith and Fury would be continued and kept intact but Corsair CP batteries are from Vigilus Ablaze.

[MegaVolt87]

CSM is the angsty black sheep of the family that's so obviously your kid that you can't completely ignore. They give us stuff to make it look like they're a good parent, but it generally lacks sincere effort, lol.

I don't expect GW to do anything more than they have to for CSM. We'll keep on keeping on because were hooked on that 40k needle and we will probably keep producing unexpected weird high performance armies. I always think about quitting, but I kind of like the challenge and forced creativity that getting continually screwed makes for. Deep breaths, good whiskey, and blood of the servants of the corpse emperor shall sustain me.

On a happy note, am I the only one thinking Red Corsairs look really strong with the extra CP production now that baseline all armies will start with the same?

Yep, club CSM where the service is lousy, the booze watered down and the chairs are uncomfortable. I am interested to see what slips under the radar thats actually good for us.

[Doom Herald]

I expect that the Red Corsair's CP generation will likely be neutered. I know they said Faith and Fury would be continued and kept intact but Corsair CP batteries are from Vigilus Ablaze.

I saw something where they said Vigilus would be intact too. That doesnt mean they won't erata the crap out of it.

Edited June 6, 2020 by Doom Herald

[Iron Father Ferrum]

The concern in the Snake Pit revolves around the limitation of modifiers to a max of +1 or -1, since stacking negative to-hit modifiers is kind of our shtick.  I wouldn't be surprised if there's some adjustments to the subfaction traits across the board, but particularly Alphas and Alaitoc.  There's been rumors of course for a while that Alphas were going to be adjusted to align with the Raven Guard's new trait, so I wouldn't be surprised to see that happen *if* the +1/-1 max is indeed implemented across the board.

[Doom Herald]

The concern in the Snake Pit revolves around the limitation of modifiers to a max of +1 or -1, since stacking negative to-hit modifiers is kind of our shtick. I wouldn't be surprised if there's some adjustments to the subfaction traits across the board, but particularly Alphas and Alaitoc. There's been rumors of course for a while that Alphas were going to be adjusted to align with the Raven Guard's new trait, so I wouldn't be surprised to see that happen *if* the +1/-1 max is indeed implemented across the board.

I've been running bonus to hit rolls on my NLs to stack DttFE probability (potential +4 in NL), as well as stacking penalties to being hit on my Nurgle DP (One Piece at a Time & Miasma of Pestilence) for -2 to being hit in melee. I definitely share some of that concern. My Prince will no longer be able to dance around T-hammer hits the same, nor will my Nurgle Fist lord be able to stack DttFE odds to assassinate tanks or Imperial Knights. In my army, getting things done relied on other units enabling characters to do heroic things like that. Back to the drawing boards.

 

I do wonder how that limit of +/-1 will work with Power Fists and T-hammers. It would be a big buff to them against things with -1 to be hit in melee.

[Kain Mor]

I feel like making people always hit on 6s would have been enough, but capping the modifiers was too much. As a guard player I’m still going to get shafted by modifiers either way, and this just makes loyalist marines even stronger. Hopefully in CA 2020 they tweak some of the rules if they end up sucking. Overall the more I see the less optimistic I am that anything will get better for anyone who isn’t loyalist space marines, and at one point I thought it couldn’t get worse for chaos marines than it is now, but I’m no longer as sure about that either.

[Macbeefin]

I'd still see massive value in having a shooting interrupt. I can almost guarantee any actual game mechanic that tries to leverage and minimize first turn shooting advantages is too complicated and very unlikely to appear in the game rules. Maybe the biggest failure of this has been Terrain rules. 

 

 

This could be a controversial idea: simultaneous shooting phase? Both players remove models at the end of the battle round? May require too much effort to keep track of at high point games. 

[Khornestar]

Frater if this could not turn into a wishlisting or how we’d fix the game thread it would be very much appreciated. Speculation is pretty broad already.

[Doom Herald]

Cut Them Down looks promising, though at the same time it makes my One Piece at a Time warlord trait worthless...

Seems like it will be good for my army as a whole, but I'll definitely have to reset things. That strat seems like it would make Raptors truly vicious against aircraft. Stronger chainswords, plus mortal wounds on 6+, that is assuming flyers still have to "fall back" and dont bypass it for some reason.

 

Definitely centering my hopes on Raptors and Morale changes not being a bust.

 

Edit: I know Cultists went up in cost (drastically) but the Cut Them Down strat might actually give them some use in bogging down enemy units. With the large unit size, falling back from them becomes a huge problem.

Edited June 6, 2020 by Doom Herald

[Azekai]

The cultists still need to make it into melee with a large majority of them intact. That being the case, I don't think Cut Them Down will do much unless you play orks. It is too easy to thin out most faction's melee hordes. Hormagaunts, cultists, poxwalkers, they are easily whittled down. The one exception might be ork boys, who can be replenished with a stratagem and benefit from higher toughness and kustom force fields. Ork players might actually be able to inflict some significant damage with Cut Them Down, but for Chaos? I do not think it is a game changer in any way.

Mayyyybe big squads of Nurgle daemons could use it semi-reliably, but even Plaguebearers are not too resilient these days.

[battle captain corpus]

Personally I'm getting very excited about what 9th will bring to my CSM projects. I've been boosting my BL and Crimson Slaughter with around 1000 points so far in preparation and to clear the backlog! Troops will always win the day so plenty of those coupled with the new stratigums and some new rules!

 

BCC

[Khornestar]

In The most recent FLG videocast, Reece really stressed that horde armies and large mobs of units are disincentivized to a large degree. He didn’t go into detail but it sounds like part of this is due to how movement works in 9th, and likely the new blast weapon rules, as well.

 

I think we obviously need a lot more info to properly judge, but Cut Them Down sure seems like a fringe case stratagem and one that will barely see use.

Edited June 7, 2020 by Juggernut

[WarriorFish]

So long as that doesn't overly punish armies that are supposed to have lots of units it's looking good to me. I agree that the Cut Them Down Stratagem seems to be lacklustre but I'm presuming that this is because there are other things to help even the scales between shooting and combat, so this can act as that little extra when you need it. Very keen to know the full picture and then get some games of 9th in... feels like it's going to be a long wait :P

[Kain Mor]

In The most recent FLG videocast, Reece really stressed that horde armies and large mobs of units are disincentivized to a large degree. He didn’t go into detail but it sounds like part of this is due to how movement works in 9th, and likely the new blast weapon rules, as well.

 

I think we obviously need a lot more info to properly judge, but Cut Them Down sure seems like a fringe case stratagem and one that will barely see use.

Not that I trust anything that that windbag says, but if he’s right that will be a little frustrating. The last thing this game needed was more emphasis on minimum size units and elite spam.

[Doom Herald]

The 50% increase on Cultists versus the Intercessor's 16% (I may be off 1% or so) point increase seems to support this idea. Along with the vehicle/monster shooting rules, it really seems like this edition is going to emphasize smaller units of bigger things. I'm truly dreading playing the IG and DG player locally. The DG player needed something for his vehicles, the IG guy though already did enough damage in melee with that improved WS strat. Edited June 7, 2020 by Doom Herald

[Khornestar]

He did say that the vehicles (and one assumes monsters) being able to shoot while in combat only allows them to shoot at the unit they’re engaged in combat with. Could not ONLY be restricted to shooting at the engaged unit, but it did sound like it. Heavy flamers FTW. Predator with flame storm cannon should be fun. :D

[MegaVolt87]

The 50% increase on Cultists versus the Intercessor's 16% (I may be off 1% or so) point increase seems to support this idea. Along with the vehicle/monster shooting rules, it really seems like this edition is going to emphasize smaller units of bigger things. I'm truly dreading playing the IG and DG player locally. The DG player needed something for his vehicles, the IG guy though already did enough damage in melee with that improved WS strat.

 

That will only hold until chapter approved points cuts and the release of proper 9th ed codexes, then we will be back to where we are right now with higher model counts soon enough. More is more for others, hopefuly we can achieve more with less models this time around for CSM. 

 

Also the idea of turning our demios preads with flamers etc into essentialy fire ships to get through screens sounds hilarious. 

[AceofCase]

Based on what we know so far, I'm beginning to think Marine melee lists will see some sort of benefit. The smaller tables and changes to terrain may benefit us in closing the gap... whether or not we will have any real punch when we do actually make the charge is another story. Rhinos might actually help reduce overcrowding in the deployment zone while also benefiting from terrain instead of being shot to pieces early on and stranding the unit that was inside.

[Special Officer Doofy]

Well of course marine melee lists will see a benefit, just in time for new better Primaris melee units! Got to keep the poster boys running strong or they wouldn't sell as well.

[Lord Raven 19]

Could chainsword CSM squads see play? With improved melee and terrain, they might reach combat and do something?

[40kChrista]

He did say that the vehicles (and one assumes monsters) being able to shoot while in combat only allows them to shoot at the unit they’re engaged in combat with. Could not ONLY be restricted to shooting at the engaged unit, but it did sound like it. Heavy flamers FTW. Predator with flame storm cannon should be fun.

Baleflamer Disco Lords should be more popular then, and having a 3 pack of Venomcrawlers with a Herald or Greater Possessed nearby firing Excruciator cannons into combat sounds like a fun idea as well.

[Irate Khornate]

I'm quite happy with the new vehicle rules. I might actually start bringing my Hades Auto Cannon Forge fiends again.

[WarriorFish]

Yes this is rather nice, vehicles are looking better off in 9th quite noticeably In particular this really helps Daemon Engines who don't have to worry about their BS4+ as much, this should make for a much more mobile game. We still have the question of what assault gets to help counter this but all things in good time I presume, hopefully we can hear more on assault's changes soon. This is the main dish for me but so far it has been quite tasty

[Drudge Dreadnought]

The vehicle changes are perhaps the biggest help to us and Tyranids. We've been hurting bad from the move and shoot penalties. We have a fair amount of units that are hybrid melee/ranged units (defilers, forgefiends, ccw+gun dreads, hellforged predators, etc) that should be moving forward while firing, and then getting into melee turn 2-3. The problem is that with the -1 penalty to hit, if they moved, they lost too much firepower. And if they sat still, then they didn't put any real pressure on. Most of these units are inferior as pure shooting units to other things. Their main advantage is being very durably for their points costs, and getting a lot out of buff synergy.

 

In the past if you ran something like a bunch of defilers and forgefiends, people could just ignore them for the most part. Either they were sitting still and not making their points back, or they were moving up and doing even less damage, and your opponent would just kill the rest of your army around them, and then deal with them. But now they'll be doing steady pressure while advancing, and will be much nastier in CC as they don't lose all their ranged firepower there now.

 

"How do I deal with 3x defiler and 3x forgefiends walking straight into me" ought to be a question that most armies need to be asking. Hopefully lists like that will be able to smash the current gunline meta.

Edited June 9, 2020 by Drudge Dreadnought