Captain Incompetence Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 (edited) Yes this is rather nice, vehicles are looking better off in 9th quite noticeably In particular this really helps Daemon Engines who don't have to worry about their BS4+ as much, this should make for a much more mobile game. We still have the question of what assault gets to help counter this but all things in good time I presume, hopefully we can hear more on assault's changes soon. This is the main dish for me but so far it has been quite tasty I honestly think that terrain rules will make or break the viability of assault armies more so than the changes to the charge or fight phase. Seems to me the big problem in 8th was actually getting your murderous psychopaths into melee without getting blasted apart before you even considered making a charge roll. And even if you miraculously made it into melee, your opponents would just walk out of combat the next turn leaving your fancy melee unit completely exposed to half the enemy army. This last part seems to actively have gotten worse in this edition as well with the changes to firing into combat. Edited June 9, 2020 by Captain Incompetence Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364240-9th-ed-speculation-thread/page/4/#findComment-5538627 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheex Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 (edited) Yep, I'm liking these new changes to vehicles. They make a lot more sense now. Defilers were already a favourite of mine for their resilience/cost ratio, but now they'll presumeably get a Blast weapon that can move and fire without penalty (edit: actually, since Blast will be its own weapon type, we don't know whether it'll be at no penalty), and can use their twin heavy flamers while engaged. I like that you'll be able to flame the unit you're engaged with and if you kill it, you'll be able to blast another target. I'm a little concerned how this will affect melee Helbrutes, but we'll see how they end up being costed. Edited June 9, 2020 by Cheex Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364240-9th-ed-speculation-thread/page/4/#findComment-5538636 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceofCase Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 Forgefiends and Defilers moving forward with a Lord Discordant and hitting on 3s is going to be very satisfying now that they're all hitting on 3s. I picked the perfect time to finish painting up a squad of melta bikers, I'm thinking we're going to see a lot more vehicles and monsters in most metas now. Also, Havoc launchers will go on everything! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364240-9th-ed-speculation-thread/page/4/#findComment-5538666 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaVolt87 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 Great news, now predators can actually move and fire again. Anything that encourages movement is good to see. Celtic_cauldron 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364240-9th-ed-speculation-thread/page/4/#findComment-5538696 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDops Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 This might have been mentioned but will the havoks be penalised for moving and shooting or will the their rules trump any rulebook change? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364240-9th-ed-speculation-thread/page/4/#findComment-5538798 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheex Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 Thought of another thing: I wonder how the Land Raider's Daemonic Machine Spirit rule and the Blasphemous Machines stratagem will work? At worst they will have no change (so LR won't benefit from it and Blasphemous Machines will only work on Assault weapons), but I'm curious if they'll be updated to do something else. This might have been mentioned but will the havoks be penalised for moving and shooting or will the their rules trump any rulebook change? Nothing we have seen so far suggests that Havocs will lose their ability. Khornestar 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364240-9th-ed-speculation-thread/page/4/#findComment-5538805 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 Yes, I think the terrain rules will dictate a lot as to how combat armies go too but the other main issue is how easy it is for enemy units to disengage. If both of these can be solved it'll make a big difference. I'm hoping this all means good things for Dreads and Helbrutes etc as they have suffered enough. If they can stay as relatively cheap fire and combat platforms to support infantry and assaults etc it'll be great news :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364240-9th-ed-speculation-thread/page/4/#findComment-5538865 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 (edited) I'm thinking hellforged Sicaran venators may be finally worth it. Edited June 11, 2020 by Rune Priest Ridcully Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364240-9th-ed-speculation-thread/page/4/#findComment-5538918 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schurge Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 Well it looks like War of the Spider introduces a new sub-faction rather then a Chaos-wide buff. Not what I think any of us expected but it gives Emperor's Children fans something to do. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364240-9th-ed-speculation-thread/page/4/#findComment-5539005 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted June 10, 2020 Author Share Posted June 10, 2020 I don't think it necessarily has anything to do with Emperor's Children (beyond history), as it's an entirely separate legion trait. I like what I see, other than Bile's model. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364240-9th-ed-speculation-thread/page/4/#findComment-5539138 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irate Khornate Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 I'm curious how the model will fit together. If at all possible I'm cutting off his face and replacing it with a spare dark apostle face. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364240-9th-ed-speculation-thread/page/4/#findComment-5539145 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulwyf Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 Well it looks like War of the Spider introduces a new sub-faction rather then a Chaos-wide buff. Not what I think any of us expected but it gives Emperor's Children fans something to do. Spider is and isn't EC. The army for him is his own army of experiments and followers. EC still needs its own codex which I hope is coming in 9th with Fulgrim 40k model and new model range... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364240-9th-ed-speculation-thread/page/4/#findComment-5539149 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schurge Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 Well it looks like War of the Spider introduces a new sub-faction rather then a Chaos-wide buff. Not what I think any of us expected but it gives Emperor's Children fans something to do. Spider is and isn't EC. The army for him is his own army of experiments and followers. EC still needs its own codex which I hope is coming in 9th with Fulgrim 40k model and new model range... I thought the same would happen for World Eaters after Daemonkin at the end of 7th. Khornestar 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364240-9th-ed-speculation-thread/page/4/#findComment-5539194 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulwyf Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 Well it looks like War of the Spider introduces a new sub-faction rather then a Chaos-wide buff. Not what I think any of us expected but it gives Emperor's Children fans something to do. Spider is and isn't EC. The army for him is his own army of experiments and followers. EC still needs its own codex which I hope is coming in 9th with Fulgrim 40k model and new model range... I thought the same would happen for World Eaters after Daemonkin at the end of 7th. I was told by a source I trust about a year and half, maybe a little longer now, ago that EC and WE would get their own codex and model support so each of the Chaos gods would have their own legions and rules/models. Fulgrim has been confirmed in the lore to be running around in 40k since the end of 7th edition with Gathering Storm. Angron has been seen in current 40k as well. So they've laid the groundwork for this they just need to deliver. Schurge 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364240-9th-ed-speculation-thread/page/4/#findComment-5539221 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucerne Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 Well it looks like War of the Spider introduces a new sub-faction rather then a Chaos-wide buff. Not what I think any of us expected but it gives Emperor's Children fans something to do. Spider is and isn't EC. The army for him is his own army of experiments and followers. EC still needs its own codex which I hope is coming in 9th with Fulgrim 40k model and new model range... I thought the same would happen for World Eaters after Daemonkin at the end of 7th. I was told by a source I trust about a year and half, maybe a little longer now, ago that EC and WE would get their own codex and model support so each of the Chaos gods would have their own legions and rules/models. Fulgrim has been confirmed in the lore to be running around in 40k since the end of 7th edition with Gathering Storm. Angron has been seen in current 40k as well. So they've laid the groundwork for this they just need to deliver. Any word on timing? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364240-9th-ed-speculation-thread/page/4/#findComment-5539229 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulwyf Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 Well it looks like War of the Spider introduces a new sub-faction rather then a Chaos-wide buff. Not what I think any of us expected but it gives Emperor's Children fans something to do. Spider is and isn't EC. The army for him is his own army of experiments and followers. EC still needs its own codex which I hope is coming in 9th with Fulgrim 40k model and new model range... I thought the same would happen for World Eaters after Daemonkin at the end of 7th. I was told by a source I trust about a year and half, maybe a little longer now, ago that EC and WE would get their own codex and model support so each of the Chaos gods would have their own legions and rules/models. Fulgrim has been confirmed in the lore to be running around in 40k since the end of 7th edition with Gathering Storm. Angron has been seen in current 40k as well. So they've laid the groundwork for this they just need to deliver. Any word on timing? I was told then it would happen after every army got a codex in 8th edition. I read that thinking it was coming out in 8th but looking back at it I could see how that could have been a cleverly worded way of saying it was coming in 9th and not 8th. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364240-9th-ed-speculation-thread/page/4/#findComment-5539246 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaVolt87 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 I'm thinking hellforged Sicarans may be finally worth it. They already are, this just makes them better. Their cannons are assault profile anyway, its the lascannons you can fire as well now. Khornestar 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364240-9th-ed-speculation-thread/page/4/#findComment-5539321 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaVolt87 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 Our CSM tide lists seem dead now with the blast weapon reveals. I really hate the MSU meta, I like my 10+ man squads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364240-9th-ed-speculation-thread/page/4/#findComment-5539326 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheex Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 Ok, so Blast rules have been confirmed: rather than being its own weapon type, it is simply a rule that is applied to existing weapon types, which confirms that vehicles will be able to move and fire Heavy-type Blast weapons without penalty. Interested to see how Defilers go with this. There's been talk that "Blast" weapons will cover any weapon that has a random number of shots and doesn't auto-hit. This could make Venomcrawlers pretty nasty. A little bummed that the changes have only seemed to hurt non-MSU so far, but I'm curious what terrain and morale changes will do. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364240-9th-ed-speculation-thread/page/4/#findComment-5539347 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonoftherubric21 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 Our CSM tide lists seem dead now with the blast weapon reveals. I really hate the MSU meta, I like my 10+ man squads. I wouldn't cut us out of that *just yet*.... Given what we know for 8th, terrain will matter more along with other things. Points will be going up, and its quite possible that blast weapons may jump up alot with it. Could swing either way, bare in mind also the way detachments work: slots this edition will be at a premium that will cost significant CP to get use out of extra slots. This may have an effect on army designs forcing larger squads depending. Conjecture of course, but we will see!!! Lots to see yet. AceofCase 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364240-9th-ed-speculation-thread/page/4/#findComment-5539372 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted June 10, 2020 Author Share Posted June 10, 2020 (edited) Super unlikely: there could be as of yet unrevealed bonuses for taking large units, to balance out the blatant downside we’ve seen so far. I doubt it, as any discussion seems to have only focused on speeding up the game and discouraging hordes. But still, possible nonetheless. Edited June 10, 2020 by Juggernut Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364240-9th-ed-speculation-thread/page/4/#findComment-5539379 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceofCase Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 I don't think MSU will be the ultimate build style in 9th. The cost of detachments means each Force Org slot is more valuable and should be utilized efficiently. We also don't know what the rest of the possible Secondary Objectives are... there very well may be one that gives victory points for killing Infantry or just units in general. I think we might find it to be a balancing act that requires actual thought when list building. Khornestar 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364240-9th-ed-speculation-thread/page/4/#findComment-5539388 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Officer Doofy Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 With vehicles getting huge buffs in the form of being able to shoot while in combat, can move and shoot heavies with no penalty and blast weapons in general, I see very little point in Troops, which got nerfed with blast weapons and from the looks of it like cultist, are going up in points. There better be some rules that make up for it and give incentives for troops, otherwise what's the point? A majority of the people I played in 8th were already light on the infantry/troops and heavy on the vehicles, so far it seems like that is only going to get worse. Time will tell I suppose but it's not looking too well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364240-9th-ed-speculation-thread/page/4/#findComment-5539398 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaVolt87 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 At this point, GW drip feeding 9th ed stuff feels counter productive without further context. These articles feel like they would read better post release of 9th ed IMO. I just want a pre-order so we can have more infomed debate/ discussion and be done with it. I don't need to be hype beasted or FOMO'd to get 9th ed, articles are aimed at existing customers, they may as well be written in cuneiform for new players to understand the transition change. AceofCase, Schurge and Tipsy Techpriest 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364240-9th-ed-speculation-thread/page/4/#findComment-5539423 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 I'm thinking hellforged Sicarans may be finally worth it. They already are, this just makes them better. Their cannons are assault profile anyway, its the lascannons you can fire as well now. Meant Sicaran Venators :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364240-9th-ed-speculation-thread/page/4/#findComment-5539477 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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