9th Ed Speculation Thread

[WarriorFish]

Yeah, the drip feed can be unhelpful sometimes as we're often left with more questions as we don't know the full picture. For example so far it seems to promote MSU but we don't yet know exactly how this pans out so until we hear more we're left scratching our heads. I suppose you have to keep the marketing types busy somehow, idle hands and all that

 

For Blast weapons the minimum of three isn't too bad against 10 model squads, though D3 weaponry will be feeling pretty pleased as the big winner. Once again we're back to waiting and seeing. Only a month or so more to go right..?

[Prot]

I think the way they trickle details is silly and counterproductive. People fill in the blanks (It's natural to do so) and GW tells us we're over reacting. lol

 

To me the biggest changes are terrain and table size. The rest we really don't know enough. But for armies that can be as fast, and dynamic as Chaos Space Marines... this is starting to look like a giant swing back from a Shooty 8th edition to an assaulty 9th edition.

 

That being said, my biggest fear with tables like this is the first turn massacres. It's not uncommon for me to face tournament level Blood Angels that are using a pile of CP's and flying across the table in T1 to engage a large amount of the army.... on a 4x6! 

 

It also means all those 36" weapons which needed a turn to get into range, probably will be. 

 

Without some mechanism involved, this might make T1 more important than any edition yet.

[Irate Khornate]

I think the way they trickle details is silly and counterproductive. People fill in the blanks (It's natural to do so) and GW tells us we're over reacting. lol

 

To me the biggest changes are terrain and table size. The rest we really don't know enough. But for armies that can be as fast, and dynamic as Chaos Space Marines... this is starting to look like a giant swing back from a Shooty 8th edition to an assaulty 9th edition.

 

That being said, my biggest fear with tables like this is the first turn massacres. It's not uncommon for me to face tournament level Blood Angels that are using a pile of CP's and flying across the table in T1 to engage a large amount of the army.... on a 4x6!

 

It also means all those 36" weapons which needed a turn to get into range, probably will be.

 

Without some mechanism involved, this might make T1 more important than any edition yet.

Speaking of tables, it looks like the distance between army deployment areas isn't changing from the example map they showed.

[Prot]

I don't understand that. The maps I've seen are the same measurements in deployment zone.

 

IE: That is to say, if I reduce your playable deployment zone by 12", this reduces the space between you and your opponent. You can't really reduce Dawn of War, for example. Or 6" deployments are also hard to shrink.

 

The only thing I see helping is a forced reserve rule for T1. I mentioned my desire to see a shooting interrupt. But really even at 6x4 the ability for a Tau army or Astra army to annihilate me in top of T1 was brutal. I had many a tournament game in ITC where I lost the game in T1 to those armies.

 

If you remove 24" from that area, that means even those indirect missiles, and 36" weapons are going to be on you instantly. 

 

Conversely "Move Twice" abilities are going to be insanely potent now too. This includes Raven Guard type deployments, Genestealers running and charging.

 

The game will be quite brutal in less time now. Slowing it down will be tough.

 

Perhaps GW has a new mat they want to release? Perhaps the movement of units will change? Perhaps deployment is staggered? 

 

Otherwise I can see fly units coming back in a HUGE way. Deepstrike will be harder. The foot print of armies will leave less available space on a smaller board. Depending on Overwatch changes, a unit of Warp Talons and/or fast tie up units may be very strong. It looks like shooting into combat for tanks is not that easy (if they can't wipe you.)

 

Double moving Possessed bomb could be even stronger. Offensive psychic powers will be even more potent, quicker. 

 

All of these changes happen just from shrinking the board. 

[Irate Khornate]

According to the example map each person had 18" of deployment area with 24" of no man's land. 36" range guns deployed at my edge will be able hit everything except the back 6". Now put that on something that can move at least 6" in the movement phase and you have full board coverage.

 

That revelation leads me to believe this is why they are revamping terrain rules, a little because they want to and mostly because they have to.

 

My major takeaway from this was my board is probably going to resemble a giant Zone Mortalis set-up with tank lanes before I'm satisfied that neither me nor my opponent are going to be up the creek if we don't get first turn.

 

This also puts emphasis on anti-tank units that can hide/ deepstrike.

[Captain Incompetence]

So, what do you guys think of the terrain rules? I'm liking the fact that Ruins now obstruct vision, as it makes hiding units much easier. However, the fact it doesn't work on 18W+ models really seems to screw over these types of models. I can kind of see the reasoning for Knights not being able to fire back over terrain as easily, but are you really going to tell me that my CSM squad can shoot at Mortarion indefinitely but he can't shoot back unless he moves around the ruin? I'm hoping some of these big centerpiece units will be getting some extra rules to make up for it, cause right now it sounds like they're even more useless than in 8th.

[WarriorFish]

I'm not sure about the "over" part of the obscured terrain, but we don't know the full picture yet (as ever...). I don't think that the biggest of units were so terrible that they needed to be put at such a disadvantage so I'm presuming there's some depth to be had. Magnus has been the "goal" for my Thousand Sons but this seems to be getting further away

 

What about the cover save bonus in combat (against non-charging attacks)? This is a notable addition that I'm not quite sure on how it'll play out. Would it mean combat units diversify more, so the chainsword style units will focus on clearing out light infantry with number of attacks? Leaving the specialist combat units to ply their advantage with AP weaponry against heavy infantry?

[Captain Incompetence]

 

What about the cover save bonus in combat (against non-charging attacks)? This is a notable addition that I'm not quite sure on how it'll play out. Would it mean combat units diversify more, so the chainsword style units will focus on clearing out light infantry with number of attacks? Leaving the specialist combat units to ply their advantage with AP weaponry against heavy infantry?

Seems to me like it's buffing the melee-orientated troops actually. As it would appear right now, if you can charge a unit inside the terrain, that unit won't receive the cover benefit, but if anything's left standing and attacks back, the unit which made the charge will.

Edited June 12, 2020 by Captain Incompetence

[Khornestar]

I have a feeling certain units like monsters or daemon engines will have rules that allow them to move/charge through terrain the way the maulerfiend could in 6th/7th with that siege crawler rule. To add more ways to interact with terrain, distinguish units, etc. To say nothing of ranged weapons targeting, of course. Clearly, though, movement matters a lot, and adding these rules and keywords seems to open up more options.

[Cheex]

CSM Faction Focus is up:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/17/faction-focus-chaos-space-marines-2gw-homepage-post-4fw-homepage-post-4/

 

It doesn't reveal anything we didn't already know, though. It's worth keeping in mind that GW's stated goals with these Faction Focuses is to help people decide on a new army that they may not be familiar with. They aren't aimed at established players of those factions.

 

More importantly, we have news on how Overwatch is being overhauled:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/17/overwatch-overhaulgw-homepage-post-1fw-homepage-post-2/

 

Now that is news-worthy. Overwatch is turning into a Stratagem, and a handful of units will also gain it as a normal ability, but overall there'll be a lot less overwatch. This is potentially pretty huge.

 

Edit: had a bit of time to think about this now.

 

Most armies only have 1-2 units that are truly scary in Overwatch, so we still have to worry about them. However, this strat can still only be played once per phase, which means you can still use "Overwatch sponges" to protect your important assault units.

 

Charge a Rhino in first and force your opponent to choose: either waste Overwatch against it, or hope that the Rhino fails so they can Overwatch the important charging unit.

 

Still have to see how Tau will be updated with this in mind, though.

Edited June 17, 2020 by Cheex

[Excessus]

It's gonna be interesting for sure. Not having to pay the charge tax every time makes it a bit easier to chance on a long charge as well.

[Special Officer Doofy]

I'm digging that overwatch became a strat.

[WarriorFish]

This is a very nice improvement to assault, it's going to make a good difference. Speculative charges are much safer now and you can use them to give your opponent pause on when they use the Stratagem if you have several potential charges lined up. With terrain making it less dangerous getting to charge range 9th is looking to do much to rectify the imbalance between shooting and combat. The full picture when we get it is going to be very interesting, hopefully there can be more balance elsewhere too.

[Maschinenpriester]

I think mit ranged armies like csm are also benefiting from the new terrain rule, as you can't shoot your 70 inch weapons anywhere because you see a leg through 10 windows and firing lanes might become shorter. Not saying this makes csm suddenly good..

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Anyone thinking this may see Spawn/fast elements used more?
I'd been thinking of getting some Palatine Blades to use as Warptalons as a bodyguard for jump lord, but thinking close combat Chosen may be worth a shot, that or Phoenix Terminators counting the halberds as chainaxes.

Edited June 19, 2020 by Rune Priest Ridcully

[WarriorFish]

My plan for some Chosen was already high up the list, though by the time I get round to them we should know what the point changes look like which may change how they work - I want to give them some toys as befitting their status.

 

I think faster elements will be as important as before, the difference being they should theoretically be able to do much better when they arrive and thanks to their speed make better use of cover on the way. This is why my Raptors are staying top of my list, could be their time to shine :)

[Khornestar]

Every edition I’m curious what they’ll do with chosen. I’m not sure the launch errata will be the place they’ll add any new bespoke rules, but you never know. Another wound is possible/marginally more plausible. Thunder hammers, as long as we can still give them to chosen, that’ll be pretty sweet.

[Lord_Starscream]

Every edition I’m curious what they’ll do with chosen. I’m not sure the launch errata will be the place they’ll add any new bespoke rules, but you never know. Another wound is possible/marginally more plausible. Thunder hammers, as long as we can still give them to chosen, that’ll be pretty sweet.

 

If they could take wounds off them, they would. I expect them to be no different than the current edition. lol

[Khornestar]

Haha in a manner of speaking, they could accomplish that by removing the unit from the army list. “No models, no rules.” Deleted/relegated many units to legacy status. Could be chosen, next, though I guess the Dark Vengeance models existed for a time.

[AceofCase]

Haha in a manner of speaking, they could accomplish that by removing the unit from the army list. “No models, no rules.” Deleted/relegated many units to legacy status. Could be chosen, next, though I guess the Dark Vengeance models existed for a time.

I actually wouldn't be surprised if they just replaced them with some sort of elite close combat unit in power armor. Probably something in between how Sternguard and Vanguard Veterans work and how the new Primaris marines are set up. We'd get fewer war gear options for them but they'd have some sort of fancy rule to run around with. 

 

Either way, at this point I think we'll only see areal benefit from the edition change in a new codex as opposed to the edition itself. The new rules aren't going to address the power imbalance between the armies as they are now. 

[Maschinenpriester]

I don't think we will get anything new too fast... But my hopes are high on point changes.

I have fielded chosen with chain swords and chains words / chain axes. They did not feel too bad. If the new astartes chainsword gives an ap-1 they could be a cheap Allrounder unit with the new warlord trait of bile.

Edited June 20, 2020 by Maschinenpriester

[Prot]

 I am starting to see some good, and some bad for my Black Legion in particular.

 

The bad:

- I'm going to have a lot of trouble getting the normal compliment of characters I like in my games. It may be too costly CP wise to make it worth while.(?)

- Elite Squads. Min squads are better against Blast weapons, and it suits most of my build styles, however that being said, I can't guard Abaddon (for example) with 3 Oblits anymore. Even 5 Termies can disappear pretty quick in today's killy 40k.  Small Bike squads, etc. My character selection is going to be very tough. Hey maybe this is the edition we get use out of the Landraider!!!??? ....... (ducks tomatoes).

- Mixing Legions is going to be harder. More costly as well. This might make Black Legion too penal for me. I mean I love Abe, but legion wise, I've always been bummed out they never upgraded it in Vigilus Ablaze.

 

- Further to lack of Legion diversity: This might be the edition I bring back Crimson Slaughter? Or the Red Corsairs?

- My Defilers are looking better! (not physically... I'll still use Soul crushers to proxy them.) But now I won't be stuck attacking things on the ground floor. Now I'll actually shoot that Battle cannon and POSSIBLY HIT SOMETHING!

 

 

The Good.

- Close combat is good. Speed/double movement is good. I think we do this well. Smaller board, faster units, close combat. All good.

- It just might be the edition I use my Chaos Terrain piece... The Noctlith Crown! That would be cool. I never even painted it.

 

The Unknown:

- Why isn't the Heldrake listed as a new flyer type? I don't like how that's looking.

- Our Troops. I realize we won't be handcuffed by CP to include Troops as a tax. It appears those days are over. But darn it I think we can agree we got a very cool new troop box set towards the end of this edition and I want them to be usable! What's going to happen? Anything?

- The Psychic phase. Not a peep yet. Still waiting with baited breath. I'm hoping at this stage in the Indomitus Crusade it comes out that Grey Knights lost the ability to cast powers because narrative says so! (J/k) But really ... this is another area I'm kind of hoping doesn't get over tweaked.

Edited June 21, 2020 by Prot

[MegaVolt87]

Well, technically the LR should be much better with what we have seen so far. However, with the points reset, I am not sure it will be worth it enough at the old points. Ditto for the spartan and the other FW LR's. Rhino's however I think will be mandatory if we want to use 10 man units. I got 3 demios ones to paint myself. 

[Bulwyf]

The faction focus on Death Guard had a playtester talk about how he was going to be able to use his Troops to take objectives easier which could mean 9th is going back to only troops being able to hold and take objectives.

[Lord_Starscream]

The faction focus on Death Guard had a playtester talk about how he was going to be able to use his Troops to take objectives easier which could mean 9th is going back to only troops being able to hold and take objectives.

 

We can only hope. I miss the days of, you know, armies fighting on the table.