What if an SG got the Black Rage?

[Captain Antargo]

Would they be considered a "super-soldier"? OR would they be kicked out of the sanguinary Guard?

[apologist]

Presumably they'd simply be moved to the Death Company, like anyone else who suffered the Black Rage.

[Panzer]

Same thing that happens to every other Blood Angel that shows signs of the Black Rage. They get assigned to the Death Company. It doesn't matter whether you were a Battleline squad member, a Fire Support squad member, a Close Support squad member, a Veteran of a flavour of your choice, a Captain, a Chaplain or a Librarian. You get the Black Rage, you get assigned to the Death Company.

Edited June 1, 2020 by Panzer

[Xenith]

The enemies of the Imperium tremble:

As per above, you're no different to another marine, although a SG getting the rage for some reason loses a wound also. I believe a 7th ed shield of baal expansion had a captain (sendini?) be inducted into the DC and was just a standard rank and file member. It's unlikely they would keep their arms and armour, though.

As we can see with Tycho, they're no longer fit for normal duty, and their final srvice for the chapter is to die.

Edited June 1, 2020 by Xenith

[Leonaides]

The panoply of a sang guard is only every loaned, it belongs to the position much like terminator armour. A marine has his own set of power armour issued to him till he dies. When he falls to the rage, he will don his old armour and that is what will be painted black. He will take up his most familiar/favoured weaponry till the end. In madness he fights in what is most instinctive to him. Not the 'best' gear he ever had, but the gear he has fought in for decades or centuries, where he is intimately familiar with the slight whine of an overloaded power pack, the minute weight differential of his customised chainsword, the torque difference which makes it unique as it bites into hard armour plates etc. When conscious thought goes, he fights with muscle memory more than reality and those are the deepest memories he has left.

[Klod]

Same thing that happens to every other Blood Angel that shows signs of the Black Rage. They get assigned to the Death Company. It doesn't matter whether you were a Battleline squad member, a Fire Support squad member, a Close Support squad member, a Veteran of a flavour of your choice, a Captain, a Chaplain or a Librarian. You get the Black Rage, you get assigned to the Death Company.

Librarians are executed.

[Xenith]

 

Same thing that happens to every other Blood Angel that shows signs of the Black Rage. They get assigned to the Death Company. It doesn't matter whether you were a Battleline squad member, a Fire Support squad member, a Close Support squad member, a Veteran of a flavour of your choice, a Captain, a Chaplain or a Librarian. You get the Black Rage, you get assigned to the Death Company.

Librarians are executed.

 

 

Mephiston disagrees 

Edited June 1, 2020 by Xenith

[Klod]

 

 

Same thing that happens to every other Blood Angel that shows signs of the Black Rage. They get assigned to the Death Company. It doesn't matter whether you were a Battleline squad member, a Fire Support squad member, a Close Support squad member, a Veteran of a flavour of your choice, a Captain, a Chaplain or a Librarian. You get the Black Rage, you get assigned to the Death Company.

Librarians are executed.

 

 

Mephiston disagrees 

 

Mephiston is an exception due to the circumstances.

[Xenith]

 

 

 

Same thing that happens to every other Blood Angel that shows signs of the Black Rage. They get assigned to the Death Company. It doesn't matter whether you were a Battleline squad member, a Fire Support squad member, a Close Support squad member, a Veteran of a flavour of your choice, a Captain, a Chaplain or a Librarian. You get the Black Rage, you get assigned to the Death Company.

Librarians are executed.

 

 

Mephiston disagrees 

 

Mephiston is an exception due to the circumstances.

 

 

Which circumstances? Just wondering if I missed some lore. He was a regular, unexceptional librarian of no significant standing before he succumbed to the rage.

[Klod]

 

Which circumstances? Just wondering if I missed some lore. He was a regular, unexceptional librarian of no significant standing before he succumbed to the rage.

 

He succumbed to the rage while burried under a ton of rocks. There werent any Chaplains to chop his head off. He "conquered" the rage and broke out. The Chaplains said they see no taint in him when he came back.

 

Edit: Corrected myself below.

Edited June 1, 2020 by Klod

[Captain Antargo]

 

 

Which circumstances? Just wondering if I missed some lore. He was a regular, unexceptional librarian of no significant standing before he succumbed to the rage.

 

He succumbed to the rage while burried under a ton of rocks. There werent any Chaplains to chop his head off. He "conquered" the rage and broke out. The Chaplains said they see no taint in him when he came back.

 

And probably because Mephiston is one of the best psychers in the Imperium.

[Klod]

I actually just looked up Mephs lore in our Codex. Apparently he fell to the BR before the final assault and indeed was inducted into the Death Company. Funny enough, the part that describes regular Librarians says that they are outright executed.

I guess he got special treatment because the lore writers just wanted it so. Maybe because it was the final assault, or because he was respected? Who knows. The lore is so inconsistent. 

[Majkhel]

As per above, you're no different to another marine, although a SG getting the rage for some reason loses a wound also. I believe a 7th ed shield of baal expansion had a captain (sendini?)

 

Sendini is mentioned in the DoB novel as a survivor of both Diamor and DoB itself so it got to be someone else. Checked quickly the viki pages and only Tycho is listed a captain-ranked member of the DC.

 

He succumbed to the rage while burried under a ton of rocks. There werent any Chaplains to chop his head off. He "conquered" the rage and broke out. The Chaplains said they see no taint in him when he came back.

This is also contradicted in the novelas - Mephiston: Lord of Death specifically mentions Mephiston was inducted into the Death Comapny. Just didn't die as he should because he was trapped under the fallen basilica.

 

I'm, interested from where comes the information of executing Librarius' members upon noting the marks of the Black Rage?

[Klod]

 

This is also contradicted in the novelas - Mephiston: Lord of Death specifically mentions Mephiston was inducted into the Death Comapny. Just didn't die as he should because he was trapped under the fallen basilica.

 

 

 

Yes, I corrected myself. Guess you didn't notice.

 

 

I'm, interested from where comes the information of executing Librarius' members upon noting the marks of the Black Rage?

 

Our Codex. Page that describes regular Librarians.

[Majkhel]

Yeah, sorry :)

[Leonaides]

Meh, prob just jam in some kind of psy-block assuming the marine will die before it wears off... blood siphoned from a blank or something like that.

[Majkhel]

Wonder if they would actually be able to use their psychic powers? They think they are Sanguinius after all, and although he was a latent psyker, he mostly had the gift of foresight. Unless something new comes up in the Siege of Terra novels.

[Klod]

Wonder if they would actually be able to use their psychic powers? They think they are Sanguinius after all, and although he was a latent psyker, he mostly had the gift of foresight. Unless something new comes up in the Siege of Terra novels.

Probably yes, hence the reason for putting them down. Also not everyone thinks he is Sanguinius. Some just imagine they are fighting traitors at Terra as themselves.

[Spagunk]

Yeah, there are lots of references not to sanguinius but to sergeants, lineman and captains fighting during the siege of terra when they go into black rage. It's all scattered though so mostly it's a device used to show that they aren't themselves.

[Quixus]

It's unlikely they would keep their arms and armour, though.

I know the rules say so (different equipment choices) , but fluff wise it is about as silly as trying to repaint the armor of a frothing madman or Astorath having nothing better to do than running around the galaxy and chopping of the heads of all DC members of all 9th Legion successors who failed to die.

[Leonaides]

But its so highly unlikely that they will go from completely sane to raging uncontrollable madman immediately that there really should, in almost all applicable circumstances, be time to take off their sg armour, repaint their personal set and put it back on. They are chosen for dc at the point they start to look a bit unfocused, not at the point they are screaming about horus..

[Xenith]

Yes, there's the fluff about the Moripatris, when the chaplains chant it on the eve of battle some marines' minds go back to the heresy, and those whose minds fail to return pass out into the arms of the chaplains, who then presumably paint them black.

 

I'd imagine there's a bit of time. Some members of the DC will be more lucid than others, or be fine until they actually get to battle.

[Quixus]

Yes, there's the fluff about the Moripatris, when the chaplains chant it on the eve of battle some marines' minds go back to the heresy, and those whose minds fail to return pass out into the arms of the chaplains, who then presumably paint them black.

 

I'd imagine there's a bit of time. Some members of the DC will be more lucid than others, or be fine until they actually get to battle.

I didn't know that fluff. Source?

 

[Majkhel]

One of the more recent descriptions in the DoB is suggesting that Moripatris is actually performed as a rite to steel a marines' mind against the Rage, but also during the induction into the Death Company. DoB novel also calls Moripatris: "the death hymn of the Blood Angels", where they offer their lives in the service of their Primarch and the Emperor. 

 

DoB also gives many nice hints as to how DC are being prepared for war. To me it seems like the initial preparations for the battle are initiated when unarmoured, to the afflicted brothers can be separated with relative ease and then armoured and armed with repainted gear. 

 

VIKIs are describing Moripatris as a ritual prayer recited by the Chaplains on the eve of battle. But it is also supposedly uttered when a Brother is found afflicted by a Black Rage (sourcing 5th ed. Codex). It is also said that Moripatris is the Mass of Doom, so this would be the litany Astorath gets to throw on the table currently.

 

Moripatris of course is supposed to mean literary the Death of the Father or at least have this type of connotation from the latin words. 

[Xenith]

 

Moripatris

I didn't know that fluff. Source?

 

Err, unsure. I'm 99% sure it's been around since 3rd ed.

 

Found it, it's in Index Astartes: Blood Angels:

 

http://games-workshop.com/w40k/ia/w40k_ia_ba.html

Edited June 8, 2020 by Xenith