Hopes for 9th edition

[Saintspirit]

Been considering how the T'au Empire might get updated in this new 9th edition. First and foremost, I read that all factions will have increased point cost. One thing I really hope for here is that the Crisis suits points cost is not increased - if anything they should rather become cheaper. Nah, if any unit should become more expensive, I think it should, in fact, be the drones. While they may not be that good at shooting, that's not really their role - they are support units, and they are also very good support units, don't you think? I mean, I don't know how many times Shield Drones has saved other models with their resilience and Saviour Protocols. And a personal favorite of mine is the Grav-inhibitor - I find their reducing of enemy charge ranges particularly enjoyable.

 

However, there is a few things in the current codex I don't really understand, but that I hope they will change in the update. Or at least you might explain them to me. Why do Guardian Drones grant Breacher Squads a 5+ invulnerable save, but Strike Squads only a 6+?

Also, whatever happened to the monat? Nowadays, battlesuit units have to be at least 3 models included, but in the earlier codecii there was no problems of fielding single crisis suits. Quite a shame, in my opinion, because I really like the concept of monats. Hmm... Is it perhaps because XV8:s comes in packs of 3?

 

Oh, and that's right - it may not be actually connected to the rules, but I was still wondering - is it intended that the V and F, and the C and K, is represented by the same symbols in the T'au alfabet (I mean, they mention that I and Y is represented by the same symbol, but not that so is also the case with C/K and V/F)?

 

 

[Focslain]

CIBs were experimental, they no longer are. Just like iridium armour, it getting put out there in larger numbers. In fluff as well as the battlefield.

[Panzer]

Today we learned that only infantry will get a penalty for moving and shooting with Heavy weapons. I can't express how damn happy I am for my Ghostkeel. Finally I can use his second Support System slot for something else (most likely ATS or VT).

[The Yncarne]

If that’s true, Then don’t we have another redundant support system in the target lock? It’s happened before.

 

I’m looking most forward to a new codex as I think the army needs a solid rethink.

[Panzer]

The Target Lock still has its use, it's just more niche and less must take, which is honestly a good thing. Nothing should ever be a must take.

[Lord Raven 19]

Non Tau player here, do you think it would be fair to change drones to work like every other bodyguard unit?

[The Yncarne]

The Target Lock still has its use, it's just more niche and less must take, which is honestly a good thing. Nothing should ever be a must take.

 

Unfortunately, that doesn't happen in 40k enough.

 

I pretty much only used it to move and fire heavy weapons. It still has its use for assault guns on suits, but it doesn't make rapid fire options any better. This just seems to make the big suits better (not complaining). It's not quite a repeat of the old split fire wargear scenario.

[Panzer]

Non Tau player here, do you think it would be fair to change drones to work like every other bodyguard unit?

 

Define every other. There are several different bodyguard rules in the game right now. :sweat:

 

Personally I think any bodyguard should intercept hits, not wounds and then things like saves etc. could proceed naturally.

[Guest Triszin]

Today we learned that only infantry will get a penalty for moving and shooting with Heavy weapons. I can't express how damn happy I am for my Ghostkeel. Finally I can use his second Support System slot for something else (most likely ATS or VT).

my ghost keels are giggling I SAY, GIGGLING

[VanDutch]

Based on the new rules around terrain and GW’s apparent desire to make mobility a more important part of the game, I’m looking forward to seeing how my Vior’la do going forward.

[AenarIT]

Non Tau player here, do you think it would be fair to change drones to work like every other bodyguard unit?

Alongside a complete rewrite of the Codex, bringing Tau in line with their shooting power in 7th ed? Absolutely yes and I dream about it every day. I hate Drones and I hate the current Codex, with zero flavor, zero internal balance and a completely useless mechanic like the markerlight system.

 

Without a complete overhaul of the Codex, touching the Drones would be criminal as they are the one and only thing that allows Tau not only to be competitive, but to be playable with the current rules.

 

But beware: Tau in 7th worked without Drones being like this because the shooting power was absurd, borderline oppressive, and the jump-shoot-jump mechanic was even more annoying. Since Tau have no melee, no psychic and apparently jump-shoot-jump is a no go as most opponents hated it, that only leaves shooting and survivability to balance the faction.

I’m not sure most players would rather face a squishier but deadlier Tau.

[Guest Triszin]

Im waiting for the full pdf patch notes before I make a judgement on overwatch rules and the effect it has on the tau

[MithrilForge]

after seeing the Overwatch bit, I'm hoping our humble Fire warrior and breachers get Overwatch as a standard Discipline....cause I see assault armies racing across the board with bloodlust in their eyes from years of being denied a fun CC phase (I don't blame them either really...) we are a defensive shooty army (Yes before anyone pipes in with it..yes we can be an offensive army  ) but you get what I mean...

 

Mithril

[Panzer]

I'm honestly not too bothered by the Overwatch changes. It was never a big deal for me anyway. Hitting on 6s is just too unreliable and I don't play as T'au Sept where I could hit on 5s. The one or two units that have enough shots or flamers where Overwatch actually matters can still do so and that's enough. :sweat: 

[The Yncarne]

I dunno, my missilesides were the most effective unit I had for over watch. I’m reserving judgement until everything is released, but if I’m spending a CP, I’d prefer over watch rolls to be better than 6s.

[Guest Triszin]

I have a feeling some tau units will be able to fire overwatch without the strat.

 

as a way to give tau something instead of psykic phase

[Panzer]

I don't think we will get anything like that to compensate for the lack of psychic phase. The article already mentioned that we can OW with two units instead of one with the Stratagem (and then they edited that part out).

Imo we should have a bigger focus on the Command Phase than most others to compensate for the Psychic phase.

[Focslain]

Honestly if FtGG still works like it does now we'll be fine. A proper grouping can get half a dozen units or more to OW on a single use of the strat. Place them in defensible terrain and any sept can get the T'au OW on 5+. This makes Tau a naturally defensive army. 

 

Fact we'll be in a better position because of our overlapping OW. Tactics against our castles won't change, it will still be better to multi-charge us. 

 

I'm not seeing much changing for Tau at this point. 

[Guest Triszin]

I wonder if tide walls will get buffed any with all the new terrain/vehicle rules

[Panzer]

I wouldn't hold my breath. The Tidewall&Co are open topped vehicles, not actual terrain.

[chapter master 454]

I hope they stop drop-kicking stormsurges for their sins of 7th edition. Seriously.

 

As for improvements, some big ones would be making crisis suits go up in points ALONG with moving their ballistic skill to 3+ and weapon skill to 4+.

I want to point out that the rules team and lore team seem to have some very weak interaction which is sorely needing addressed in tau. Go read the firesight marksmen rules (and note his BS3+) then compare it to his lore: He is just a random Shas'La given a markerlight and some sniper drones to babysit (and they have to some regularity have to retrieve the drones because their babysitter got merced). So how come a random Shas'La (grunt, trooper) has better ballistic skill than a sergeant who had to earn his promotion to Shas'Ui through multiple battles THEN have to overcome the trial imposed to earn a battle suit still not have BS3+ and WS4+?

 

Same goes for Riptides, Ghostkeels AND StormSurges who all by lore have incredibly experienced or heavily vetted individuals pilot them. Riptides often have the rarely seen Shas'El ranking Fire Caste members pilot them which is the step between Shas'Vre and Shas'O, Ghostkeels aren't cheap to make ether and by stat-sheet have Shas'Vre which is not just Veteran, but Veteran of Veterans while Stormsurges are supposed to have heavily experienced hammerhead crews piloting them which I will comment, Hammerheads have BS3+.

Points hike would be fine if these units would get the correct Ballisitic skill (and WS for the riptide and Ghostkeel).

 

Personally, would love to see more light melee options for Tau's most Iconic unit and heck, throw in some melee options for Riptides, lets just go full Gundam! (Scythes, Swords, Spears. All under the idea of giving their units the ability to take down targets bigger than they are!).

[Focslain]

 

Personally, would love to see more light melee options for Tau's most Iconic unit and heck, throw in some melee options for Riptides, lets just go full Gundam! (Scythes, Swords, Spears. All under the idea of giving their units the ability to take down targets bigger than they are!).

 

Considering in the Damocles Gulf book a pair of riptides full on wrestle with a knight I would love to see them get a melee option or three. At least allowing a swap out of their heavy range weapon for a melee that has -2 (or better-3) AP and D3+ dmg. Fine keeping it at user strength.  

[Panzer]

Just no to melee options. It goes completely against the nature and teachings of the T'au. Even the Farsight Enclave follows the regular teachings of the T'au for the most part (with a heavy focus on Mont'ka) with only Farsight and wannabe Farsight actually having a thing for melee.

 

Edit: typo

Edited June 24, 2020 by Panzer

[chapter master 454]

Just no to melee options. It goes completely against the nature and teachings of the T'au. Even the Farsight Enclave follows the regular teachings of the T'au for the most part (with a heavy focus on Mont'ka) with only Farsight and wannabe Farsight actually having a thing for melee.

 

Edit: typo

 

Mont'Ka is about striking with sudden strikes and being pro-active in hunting the enemy, not letting them have a break and optimally, killing on first hit. With the way Crisis suits are apparently supposed to be used in lore, I am surprised they have such poor close range options along with lacking ANY melee option of any kind, even if some form of flechette pods designed for melee more regularly (that we have seen they have and apparently do use).

 

Possibly could I offer a compromise? The concept that in some regards follows the idea of the Fusion Blades, in that Tau melee is built from their ranged weapons. Possibly adding Pistol profiles for certain weapons that crisis suits can take or even creating variants like how the fusion blades are just modified fusion blasters. Personally I understand the not want of giving them more traditional melee weapons (though a riptide or ghost keel with a sword or spear would look cool as T'au'va) however I would like to see more attempts to show their use of those weapons in lesser known ways. As all accounts go, Kroot are just straight garbage for any melee duty and personally I think it doesn't add to Tau to have them effectively only have one phase and I think we all agree no to psychic phase for tau. I would like for tau to look at the fight phase more as a "last resort, lets do this" instead of "I guess I'll just die then" especially considering that Tau are so scared of melee we only see Tau sept usage for that reason, effectively using their overwatch as their melee (even down to the 5+ to hit).

 

I want more examples of the greater good book strat that turns weapons into pistol type which to me is really cool, as it means now getting locked into combat by a job squad means you can now repel without needing to fall back as much. Even if it isn't proper melee weapons, just something so these armoured suits actually feel like they aren't completely dead in melee (as I said elsewhere, at the minimum Weapon Skill 4+ for their more elite units such as crisis, riptides and ghostkeels).

[Panzer]

Yeah I'd be fine with some ranged weapons having a pistol profile or a support system or stratagem or whatever that does something similar. Of course T'au would develop something so they aren't completely defenseless in case they get caught in melee (how FLY works in 8th is actually a good improvement since we can just fall back and keep shooting). Just actual melee weapons is a no-go imo.