Implications of 9th for Drukhari

[GrinNfool]

Eh our faction focus was effectively nothing but them saying raiding force works still, so I gave it a day to think about applications.  There are two big problems for it though.  The most obvious is the 3 patrol isn't doable until over 1500 points since they set a detachment limit of 2 til then, so at 1500 or less we get penalized for using more than 1/3 of our codex, which is... not great honestly.  The second problem is even at over 1500 points, it creates a rule of 2 assuming you don't run double kabal/cult/coven patrol, so its rule of 2 or lose1/3rd of our codex.  While that is functional its once again, not great, as one of the ways we get around our fragility is redundancy.

 

The problems above aside, its not terrible, you can make a functional army with 3 patrols, that has a fair bit of versatility, but a 3rd more much more minor problem is it makes army creation far more rigid for us.  Every army you build using all three factions will include 1 of each troop and 1 of each hq (or draz/urien). so ~ 300 points are locked, not counting the transports.  Like I said not the end of the world as most of those units are all solid, but it does make army comp somewhat static.  Honestly I don't think it will change much if anything for us we will still be able to run the comps we ran before, just by doubling on coven or kabal.  Makes wyches slightly more accessible honestly though if we are willing to run just two ravs or flyers(of the same faction).  Thats a pretty good thing, honestly as before our options to get a unit of reavers was bad CP or a heavy points investment in succubi and wyches.

 

Overall I'm am pretty neutral on it some good some bad, but we can do still do everything we have done before with some easier access to units that would have lost us CP before, so its fine.  Still concerned about our fragile vehicles now having no advantage in exchange for being fragile based on current information, but we will see.

[Lord_Caerolion]

This is why I'm hoping we're one of the earlier codices in 9th, that expands our unit options a bit. Nothing major, but I'd like to be able to make a pure Kabal/Cult/Coven list without being limited to a single option for most unit types, outside of Mercenaries (and counting the Court/Beasts as one option each).

[Karhedron]

Given my Kabal loves using fear-toxins, I'm hoping that the (admittedly sub-par) custom Kabal trait that messes with Leadership affects all rolls for models running away, not just the initial Morale test.

Agreed, stacking a lot of negative leadership modifiers could potentially be brutal. Allying in some Craftworlders for access to "Horrify" and "Mindshock Pods" could be really nasty but also messes badly with our Detachment access so I am not sure if it will be viable.

[WarriorFish]

Why would anyone want to associate with Craftworlders - ah wait I get it. To use, betray and slay them all of course, good idea!

 

I'm patiently waiting for the Errata as the final piece of the puzzle. The adjustments to rules and the like could be far reaching, aside from the ones we know are necessary. With the updated army rules and points we can get a decent idea of how 9th is going to start for DE

[Lord_Starscream]

Why would anyone want to associate with Craftworlders - ah wait I get it. To use, betray and slay them all of course, good idea!

 

I'm patiently waiting for the Errata as the final piece of the puzzle. The adjustments to rules and the like could be far reaching, aside from the ones we know are necessary. With the updated army rules and points we can get a decent idea of how 9th is going to start for DE

 

I actually like the fact that Druk and Craftworlders don't intrinsically hate one another in 40k, unlike every other setting with "Good" and "Bad" pointed eared people, lol.

 

But, anyway.

 

I'm curious how things are going to go for Druks in 9th. I think speed is going to be a major factor for them, and Reavers, if they can get the attack off themselves, can deal with Outriders, or just about anything with a big enough unit.

[Lord_Caerolion]

The way my Kabal sees it, the Drukhari are the "good" ones, as at least we're honest with our outlook. Sure, we use the mon-keigh for our own ends, but so do the Craftworlders. They doom entire worlds just to ensure a handful of their own don't die, then try to act morally superior just because they didn't directly kill them themselves.

[Karhedron]

I actually like the fact that Druk and Craftworlders don't intrinsically hate one another in 40k, unlike every other setting with "Good" and "Bad" pointed eared people, lol.

Yes, there's more of a sort of bitter rivalry than outright hatred. And the tendency to team up against the lesser races has more than a whiff of "No one beats up my family but me!"

[Lord_Starscream]

During 8th I'd planned on building x2, 12 man Reaver Jetbike units (I even have the models <.<), however, now.

 

Now I'm definitely building x2 9 man units. Building them at 12 would border on suicide. lol

[TrawlingCleaner]

During 8th I'd planned on building x2, 12 man Reaver Jetbike units (I even have the models <.<), however, now.

 

Now I'm definitely building x2 9 man units. Building them at 12 would border on suicide. lol

10 mans would work because they're below the upper Blast thresehold (assuming that's why you're not taking 12)

 

I think it'll be very interesting to see where the fly keyword changes take DE, screening chargers with flyers, then falling back and shooting was their "Gimmick"

[Lord_Starscream]

 

During 8th I'd planned on building x2, 12 man Reaver Jetbike units (I even have the models <.<), however, now.

 

Now I'm definitely building x2 9 man units. Building them at 12 would border on suicide. lol

10 mans would work because they're below the upper Blast thresehold (assuming that's why you're not taking 12)

 

I think it'll be very interesting to see where the fly keyword changes take DE, screening chargers with flyers, then falling back and shooting was their "Gimmick"

 

 

I think Void Ravens will be great if they can bomb first turn while flying off the table, then come back in from behind and light them up with missiles and dark lances to their vehicles and support vees.

 

However, outside of that. I'd do x9 Reavers over x10, as 9 is optimal for unit upgrades.

[Medjugorje]

The way my Kabal sees it, the Drukhari are the "good" ones, as at least we're honest with our outlook. Sure, we use the mon-keigh for our own ends, but so do the Craftworlders. They doom entire worlds just to ensure a handful of their own don't die, then try to act morally superior just because they didn't directly kill them themselves.

 

I have a different view on this. The Aeldari seeing human like we see animals.

If there scientists searching for HealthCare they doing that in expense of animals life in laboratories. they are well seen in our community but 100s of apes, mouse die very hard. the main difference is that they dont have fun to sacrifice them… Dark Eldar do

 

 

[harlokin]

Just to cap off a crappy day for Drukhari...the FAQ:

 

Add the following: ‘While this transport is within Engagement Range of any enemy units, embarked units cannot shoot, except with any Pistols they are equipped with.’

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/9Is6SxQ6w6fOyB41.pdf

[WarriorFish]

I've gone through a few of the updates and they seem a bit light considering how much 9th has changed? I'm wondering if this is the entire story as it doesn't feel like it... :confused:

[harlokin]

Feels like someone at GW got rolled over by a Drukhari list.....first our PA book was really awful, now we've had a real spanking in the points and FAQs....

[GrinNfool]

After seeing the points adjustments and looking at them compared to most of my other armies, my DE are by far the worst off of them all.  Fly does nothing, low toughness easy to kill models, venom cannon 15 on non infantry (why?) so venoms are 75 base now.... kab cost hike dissies goin up THAT much, looking very rough.  About the only thing with any chance at viability now is coven.  Otherwise I think DE is back to where we were in 7th, sad as that is.  Eh oh well I made em work then I will figure something out now, just a bummer to be in bottom tier again.

[Lord_Caerolion]

 

The way my Kabal sees it, the Drukhari are the "good" ones, as at least we're honest with our outlook. Sure, we use the mon-keigh for our own ends, but so do the Craftworlders. They doom entire worlds just to ensure a handful of their own don't die, then try to act morally superior just because they didn't directly kill them themselves.

 

I have a different view on this. The Aeldari seeing human like we see animals.

If there scientists searching for HealthCare they doing that in expense of animals life in laboratories. they are well seen in our community but 100s of apes, mouse die very hard. the main difference is that they dont have fun to sacrifice them… Dark Eldar do

 

 

I'd just counter by saying that the scientist cares for the animals in its care, the Aeldari see them only as tools. They don't care about the lives of humans. The Craftworlders have doomed entire planets just to save a few Eldar. They created Ghazghkull just so Ulthwé wouldn't get invaded. Scientists have ethical standards to minimize harm, Farseers just care that humans die in the right place at the right time in the right way.

 

Sure, they don't get off on it, but no, they don't see humans as animals. They don't have attachment to them, they don't care for their well-being, they don't try to minimize suffering. Humans are sacrificial lambs trotted out to divert from whatever minor inconvenience is facing the Craftworlds that particular day, and they don't care what suffering it causes so long as it isn't coming from an Eldar.

 

Do they involve the Imperium in their plans? Nope. Do they warn those they've just placed in grave danger? Then they try to claim they're the allies of the Imperium. They save their own lives, then wash their hands of the consequences. They abuse humanity just as much as the Drukhari do, they just hide it behind detachment.

[ThePenitentOne]

Because I'm pretty much looking at Crusade from here on out, I wonder if PLs are going up. One advantage to PL is that equipment costs do not increase the cost of the unit. That's why I think PL may go up to, otherwise the heavy equipment costs could just lead more people to play PL.

 

I'm still waiting for the book before I do anymore list building.

[Lord_Starscream]

Just awful.

 

Just. Awful.

 

It's far worse than I imagined it'd be. Which is already shocking. When GW dedes you need to get nerfed, you get NERFED, because the points costs are a series of tragedies. The biggest hurt? Making Kabal Warriors 9 poiints a model? Get. The  :cuss. Out. They're definitely not worth 9 points a model. It's the core of a Kabalite army. Are these people for real? I feel like I'm on crazy pills. Absolute pants-eating stupid.

 

I guess Raiders with a Dark Lance are the default build for transports, if people bother with that at all. Tweaking these things would be fine, but instead they came in with a haymaker and just smashed the baseline components of the army. Wracks and Wytches both got hit too (Just not as bad as the Kabal), it just becomes a big "whhhhyyyyy???".

 

You gotta compare the army to where the Primaris are, and the Primaris didn't get hit like this. Two Kabalite warriors for every one intercessor? Sure GW.

 

I belieb you.

 

You so smert.

 

What a complete waste of time.

[harlokin]

I just dont 'get' Wracks...I fully appreciate that they are hard to remove, but they don't seem to 'do' anything; it makes us feel more like Death Guard than Drukhari.

I suspect that the demise of Kabalites&Venoms is being overstated. Sure their efficiency has taken a shellacking, but they still offer mobility, dispersed threat, and a bit of resilience; all of which will be valuable with the new missions.

Checked Forgeworld.....Reapers are out of stock

[Lord_Starscream]

I just dont 'get' Wracks...I fully appreciate that they are hard to remove, but they don't seem to 'do' anything; it makes us feel more like Death Guard than Drukhari.

 

I suspect that the demise of Kabalites&Venoms is being overstated. Sure their efficiency has taken a shellacking, but they still offer mobility, dispersed threat, and a bit of resilience; all of which will be valuable with the new missions.

 

Checked Forgeworld.....Reapers are out of stock

 

I think you're going to see a lot more people defaulting over to Raiders, which are still incredibly fast. And offers a Dark Lance, which will fit the META much more.

[WarriorFish]

I was under the impression mounted squads was the way to go before, nothing I've seen in 9th (before or after Errata) seems to suggest a significant change here so I'd expect most to carry on as before? It is a shame because it would have been nice to have some things on foot, but I got some more Raiders before the price increase for a reason. Maybe some extra smaller squads can hide away with the new terrain rules to claim VPs or something, I need to get a feel for how games play before I would consider trying it out.

[harlokin]

I feel that the winners (if they can be called that) are Taloi, Mandrakes, and Reapers.

 

I think that transports are even more essential this edition. Drukhari for me have always been about transport spam, footslogging never really felt thematic. Of our Troops, only Wracks can get by with walking; Wyches used to get by in big squads, but that is now undesirable cos of blast weapons.

 

Wyches in Venoms, or more probably Raiders seem interesting...their Splinter Pistols can be used if/when the vehicle is in close combat, Blast Pistols are now attractive, and if they get out they can still do some work in close combat (unlike Kabalites) and get a 4++.

Edited July 14, 2020 by harlokin

[WarriorFish]

I do have a second squad of Mandrakes to get to, but I'd have used them regardless! I don't think anyone took large squads before due to transports so practically speaking I don't think there is going to be a great deal of change in how people run DE. While the things not changing isn't terribly exciting I can carry on with my existing plans at least.

[harlokin]

I went through the painful process of building some finecast Mandrakes yesyerday.....they REALLY need a new plastic sculpt

 

I suspect that Grotesques, despite going up a bit in points, are going to be worthwhile too. Quite a lot of the mission stuff seems tied to the Infantry keyword, and they are the biggest, nastiest Infantry that we have.......that and I've been converting six of them from Crypt Horrors..

Edited July 17, 2020 by harlokin

[Karhedron]

I just dont 'get' Wracks...I fully appreciate that they are hard to remove, but they don't seem to 'do' anything; it makes us feel more like Death Guard than Drukhari.

 

Durable Troop units seem to be where it's heading with 9th as it is ab out being able to plonk a unit on an Objective and start scoring those points. Wracks may have a role in that sort of setting.