9th Edition: Reflections and Predictions for AM

[GuardDaddy]

So we have so far:

 

• Detachment changes
• Points Increases
• Board Size differences
• New Missions
• Command Point changes

 

What do people think so far?

 

What do you think is coming?

 

How will this impact the Astra Militarum?

[Lord Marshal]

Whatever happens, there'll be screaming that Guardsmen aren't  at least 15pts each. 

[WarriorFish]

It is early days of course, but so far I'm encouraged by what I've seen. I'm not sure how this may chance things for Guard though, I think I need to know more before I can make that decision. Everything getting a bit more expensive is fine so long as Guardsmen and other light infantry get some form of boost to survivability. The sad reality is that for as much as some may complain about hordes it is necessary when your units are so easily removed.

 

However as that comes down to the potency of shooting in most situations I'm imagining that 9th will do this, at least in part with terrain changes. We shall see as ever. I'm not sure if the board changes are confirmed yet? I'm not sure about this, but if all armies will get smaller it shouldn't matter that much in theory. The Command Point changes sound good to me but I never did build around gaining them so it was never likely to impact me much!

[Santaclauswitz]

It'll impact my list for sure. I was running triple battalion, partly for the command points and partly to run 3 vigilus formations. I play mixed regiments cadian/ steel legion so I'll need 2 formations minimum to carry on with this. I don't think I'll be able to fit in 3 cadian tank commanders any more. Maybe this will remove some auto includes like 3 company commanders and 3 tank commanders plus the 9 infantry units for triple battalion? But there's a lot of IF'S so I'm not really reading too much into it yet.

 

What does concern me is the impact of points changes. If all armies see a similar % points increase then all is fine. With the limited information at hand it does seem a little worrying that intercessors have increased in price by 1/19 compared to cultists increase of 1/2.

[Warhead01]

So we have so far:

 

• Detachment changes
• Points Increases
• Board Size differences
• New Missions
• Command Point changes

 

What do people think so far?

 

What do you think is coming?

 

How will this impact the Astra Militarum?

I can't even guess right now. I'm not overly concerned My first IG army was during 2nd edition when they cost more per mode in points than they have in 6 editions so we'll see.

If anything I will be more inclined to build several set lists to pick and choose from depending on my opponent and the mission, I'll do the same with each of my armies. 

I'm not a competitive chase the meta player at all I just want a good showing and my share of a fighting change. Or what ever.. 

I don't see those first 4 items listed as separate issues.  Just part of the whole. Will it be different? sure will!  After more than 20 years of 40K and so many of them under essentially the same rule set the new,8th, rules were almost like playing a first edition to me,. not the 1st edition but with such a drastic rules shift it was super refreshing and fun. I think 9th will be a blast. I don't think board sizes will matter much yet but I also think it's a nudge at players to move their model more. Movement is so important in 8th and will be in 9th I believe. 

I don't know exactly how the new rules will change my army but I have a theme and plan to stick with it as much as I can. As long as I can find a way to bring my horse Cavalry I'll be more or less happy. 

[Captain Incompetence]

I think overall the Guard was a really good codex in 8th for the most part. It did have issues with negative-to-hit modifiers being stacked, but beside that I never had matchups where I felt I was completely overwhelmed by my opponent. The internal balance of the codex seemed to be pretty good as well and I felt like I actively had multiple choices in which units to bring.

 

What I'm wondering is how they're going to be changing stratagem costs as right now it would appear the Guard loses out massively from the changes to CP in comparison to Knights or Custodes. I feel like there was a sort of balance present in the design of stratagems where a lot of the horde armies didn't have these super amazing stratagems available because we tended to start the game with tons more CP than our opponent. But we'll have to wait and see.

 

I'm more interested to see the changes to terrain and how that will impact the games though. I'm hoping a lot more LOS blocking terrain will force both myself and my opponent to actually move more models around, as I felt the optimal way to play most IG models was to sit still and shoot. This is fine for a few games, but it did get boring after a while especially if you're facing off against another shooting heavy army like T'au or Admech. Then again, perhaps if the terrain rules block more LOS we'll see artillery become even more prominent on the tabletop?

[duz_]

Hard to tell

The cp / detachment change will certainly change how I arrange my armies, but doubt the make up will change drastically points aside

 

Might even have to my eradicator on the table with the horde changes :lol:

 

I feel I will probably run a single Battalion now with maybe a super heavy aux or supreme command

 

Biggest part will be deciding if that's worth giving up mixed regiments or if I will have to default to Cadian since its probably the best all round for a combined arms :down:

[GuardDaddy]

My concerns currently are:

 

CP were one of the areas guard (and Horde in general) benefitted. This looks like being curtailed. As troops were pt for pt very good for us getting them is where we might bump up against detachment limits. My hope is that guard get some special troop rules (platoons?) to allow us to run massed bodies still without getting murdered by CP cost.

 

Creed +2CP looks better...

 

Pts increases I hope don't hit guardsman disproportionately. The cultist v intercessor example shown so far was a relative high proportionate jump for the low cost model.

 

Table size interesting. I reckon I could deep strike deny pretty much an entire board by end turn 2!!!

 

Scenery rules will be interesting.

 

Overall I hope the changes keep the pattern of 8th going. I've played 1,2,3 edition - break - 7th and then 8th. I think overall 8th made for the best game (emphasis on game as an experience) as opposed to roleplay immersion of 'realistic'.

[War Angel]

So GW took away platoons in 8th so that guard could get multiple detachments easy, does anyone think 9th will see the platoon brought back? Or does GW want to tax players for taking more than 6 troop choices (either needing 3 of every other selection or extra CP spent for more detachments.

[tychobi]

Brigade play all over. One detachment to rule them all! Taking all the spicy stuff from all supplements is going to be harder and I predict less internal "soup" and more thematic armies. Raw points efficiency of the lowly guardsmen will be a big deal. 50% hike on cultists (4-6) is a disturbing indicator if the average points hike is more like 20% . Guardsmen have been a good pick relative to the field and I would like to see that continue in 9th. Fingers crossed!

[duz_]

I'll be honest I won't be too disappointed in seeing IG move away from the mass horde environment

8th didn't really offer any reason for mech inf

 

Maybe with the rebalance away from hordes in general (again not a bad thing IMHO) there will be some reason for us to take transports again

 

Also with GW being involved in the mission making for organised play hopefully we'll see the need for mobility that other formats didn't prioritise

[Cap'm Heckus]

I'm excited.  it'll be nice shake things up a bit.  8th addition was all about bringing the previous armies into a very new and different rules set.  9th refines it and now maybe we'll start getting new stuff again.

 

My hope is that we'll see:

• a return of some old units in a re-imagined way (Rough Riders)
• finalization of some rules that always seem to be in flux (Commissars)
• improvements to existing units that have fallen out of fashion (Veterans)
• some new tanks or artillery of some kind (though, sadly, it'll probably have way too many guns...)

As far as the new detachment rules?  We'll adapt and play on.  We always do.  So far I like what I see.  Someone always cries "doom and gloom" at the beginning and then we move on and figure stuff out.  

[MedicMike0708]

Musings and some shameless wishlisting:

 

I would love to see the return of platoon guard, it’s fluffy and thematic, and while I agree there should be other viable builds than slapping 200 bodies on the table, I would hate to see the guard lose that dystopian warfare tactic of literally throwing troopers at something to the point of absurdity.

 

Rule of three breaking. It always felt stupid for guard to not be able to take more than 3 of something, I understand wanting to limit spam for meta-maxing your army, but perhaps with some build options you could unlock the ability to repeat datasheets in excess of 3 without breaking the game.

 

I have grave concerns about the CP capping. There is a reason guard were such great CP batteries, because they also used a tonne of CP. It was a fun and strategic way of making your measly troops do some exciting or interesting things (although if USRs return, or guard officers got more innate abilities I suppose this could be ok)

 

Roughriders, I have had 20 part finished forever, and their loss to indexs (indices?) in early 8th and then on to legends really meant I pushed them to the back of the back of my project table. There is something just so 40k about riding with lance and rifle against demons and hypertechnological fish people

 

Being that I’m almost mono-build Mordian but with a reasonable Scion and Cadian force, I am curious to see how the new rules interact with each regiments’ traits. There having been hints about changes to overwatch (Yea Mordians) but also at some rules that might hinder scions; how do I glass-cannon-alpha-strike his big baddies if he keeps them in strategic reserves?

 

Point hikes hurt, although I think it’s reasonable to predict that standard guardsmen and conscripts will now see a variance in points closer to pre-big-faq levels.

 

Shameless wishlisting:

Invulnerable save for guard superheavies

Fix the LRBT vanquisher variant

New plastic guard for regiments

 

Overall I’m optimistic but cautiously so. How an army performs often has a lot to do with when in the release cycle their codex comes out, and how hard they get hit with the faqing nerf bat

[WarriorFish]

It does feel like the cost increase might be another string to the unhording bow? I suppose we'll see but while technically anything can be worth it for the right points, playing with them does feel like a blunt instrument fix. I still remember GW's mishandling of Commissars, so I'll need to be convinced as to how well this works as unless 9th is a lot less deadly than 8th more expensive GEQ squads are going to hamper codices that rely on them.

 

I was thinking about the new Blast weapon thing, I'm guessing the former flamer template weapons won't be included but I think the number should be 11+ as a 10 model unit is entirely normal. A 10 model Guardsman unit is not a horde... nor is a 10 model Marine unit!

[Shamansky]

What concerns me so far is that core stratagem inflicting MWs on a falling back unit. Can make tanks very valnurable to tarpitting with hordes unless vehicles would be allowed to shoot into melee.

[sairence]

I think we'll be fine. We can still be more economical with our choices, because we'll be able to out most things in a Brigade for a combined arms army. So we won't have to spend too many CP on extra detachments unless we want to go multi-regiment. Other armies may well be forced to because of the cap on FOC-slots.

 

And I also imagine that the more focused detachments won't cost too much. So I doubt taking a core-Brigade/Battalion together with a tank/artillery spearhead or Scion Patrol is going to set us back too much. We just have to get out of the mindset of bringing multiple battalions and be a bit more selective in what regiment traits we run. We'll still be more flexible than a lot of other armies in this though.

 

As for any other changes to unit rules...those will be pretty far off, until the Codex gets updated. Nothing substantial will change there with the switch to 9th.

[Phubar]

What concerns me so far is that core stratagem inflicting MWs on a falling back unit. Can make tanks very valnurable to tarpitting with hordes unless vehicles would be allowed to shoot into melee.

Yes, tanks and monsters can shoot in melee but how they can is not clear. They will preview it this week.

[Warhead01]

I have a feeling most all of the stratagems costs in CP will have to change to fit the new model. Or GW is trying to reduce the player dependency of stratagems. You know the term autto include, I have a feeling that Gw sin't a fan of that idea. 
Haven't seen chatter on just how the command phase works, unless I have messed most of it. I do recall reading that an army will recover at least 1 CP during it's phase. 
We're looking at a bandaid faq to carry armies over to their new codex. 

If were worried about tanks being abused in close combat we'll have to look for a support unit that can dig them out or cover their fall back. But then is there any problem we can't just throw conscripts at? 
Some stratagems like the DKoK one that changes weapons profiles to pistol 2 could be way more useful. But it depends on the unit and how fragile it is. 
I'm planning to include Cyclops bombs in my lists, I still have 3 may as well use them to support my conscripts.  

[sairence]

It's worth noting that most of the strategems released as part of PA, which has been written to be compatible with 9th, cost 1 or max 2 CP. So the future direction of strats points to low cost across the board.

[Kain Mor]

I mean we know that guardsmen will be at least 6 points per model now. Probably more, if we think conscripts will be cheaper than guardsmen. That’s going to sting A LOT. Mechanized infantry already felt crappy, I likely won’t be able to keep wasting as many points on chimeras and Taurox going forward. Especially since we also know our tanks are going up a lot. (Blast weapons plus tank buffs)

[duz_]

I wouldn't jump to too many conclusions yet

We only know cultists will goto 6pts

IG infantry could well stay as is or goto 5pts as easily as they could goto 8

 

Similarly they said transports will be adjusted to reflect the new dynamic this could make them cheaper

 

It's really too hard to say

 

 

The only other thing we do know is the game size at 2000pts will have less models and they've tailored how that will look to each army and unit

 

 

I think mech inf will actually see a boost this edition with the new rules and command phase abilities. You probably won't have as many Armoured fist squads as you do now but they've been open about that.

Like with any edition lists will change

[Kain Mor]

I’m holding off from too many conclusions, but I feel it’s very optimistic to think that guardsmen won’t be a minimum of 6 points. Transports will also have to drop a lot to make me consider bringing them when a basic 6 infantry squads (enough to keep one alive going into turn 2 against space marines) are going to be costing an extra 120 points.

[WarriorFish]

Cultists operate in a different codex don't forget - they aren't direct comparisons given the many differences. As I collect CSM too I'm thinking this is because Marines will get a needed boost so relatively speaking they do more for it. 5 or 6pts would be fine for Guardsmen I can't see them going up more but as noted there is much we don't yet know that could easily change things.

 

As Kain says short of Chimeras dropping in points nicely it's unlikely to radically shift how Guard build armies, but as Commissar duz says all editions bring about change in lists one way or another ;) As much as I enjoy going infantry heavy and have been making the most of it I do miss my mech, the ideal is that both are more balanced - that's a change in lists I'd be looking forward to :lol:

[Are Verlo]

I play steel legion mech-inf and I welcome less soup and depending on point values I can go either brigade or a fleshed out battalion.

What I am most curious about are the vehicle rules, since I play tanks and all-mounted infantry.

[Warhead01]

I don't see Guardsmen going up in points drastically and am not overly bothered by a points raise. Every army will have their points adjusted and lots of things will go up. Point increases only bother me when it's only one faction, it hurts more when it's one at a time but a full on change doesn't seem as bad some how. Guardsmen should cost one quarter to one third what ever a SM costs, but less than an Ork. Wish I knew where my 2nd ed IG codex was to see the old points costs. A SM tack squad was 300 points before upgrades back then. Raising points just lowers the over all model count. It's going to be really weird I feel an army made up of a mix of units to do all the jobs and not a spam army will be both better and more fun in the next edition and I think that's probably going to hold true for all the factions. 
My friend was telling me about his AM army and all his tanks and how with strats, orders ect he doesn't feel like he even needs more than 2 LRBT's in his army any more. 
Who knows. I guess well know in a few months.