9th Edition: Reflections and Predictions for AM

[duz_]

With the changes to heavy weapons, do folks think Sentinels will be more viable?

Definitely more a cheap moving pill box that doesn't degrade! I plan on building my 3 nib sentinels and fielding 2+2 of each

 

My ig list for 9th is looking more like a mech inf brigade

[GuardDaddy]

Taking a squadron of sentinels to benefit from the strat from pyschic awakening became pretty awesome.

 

The blast rule feels about right - literally praying wyvern stormshard counts as blast...... v nids and Orks of 11+ thats 24 shots re-rolling wounds....

 

As infantry-phile for guard its not to bad - could have been worse. Wondering what missile launcher pts comes out as - current comparison to lascannon pts wise made them very desirable and they are further buffed with blast.

 

The tank combat rules are also on reflection not as game changing as I thought. You will still probably be able tag guard vehicles in the sense of stopping them shooting effectively with a few troops - with my rolls I can't see me confidently clearing infantry to free up a big gun!

[duz_]

Frag ML definitely got a needed boost

[Are Verlo]

Frag ML definitely got a needed boost

I might finally use the Steel legion squads like they came in the box! Grenade launcher and missile launcher squads look good vs hordes, but then again with 3-6 chimeras in the army anti-infantry firepower was covered well

[sairence]

So after rereading the blast rule, it's great for things that chuck out multiple 1D3 or 1D6 shots...like Russes firing twice, infantry units throwing multiple grenades, etc. It makes no difference to things like the Wyverns because you get a minimum of 3/6 shots for the attack, not for each dice that you roll. So a Wyvern with 1x4D6 would still have a minimum of 4/6 shots, not 12/24. Now, if the Wyvern was changed to 4x1D6 (kinda like 7th) it would absolutely wreck any larger unit's day.

 

Having thought about it for a day, I don't actually think Blast is such a big buff to our tanks, as we could already get fairly reliable shot numbers with Catachan, Gunnery Expert or some strats. It will be quite nice for things like frag-grenades/missiles and mortars though, where it will take a lot of variance out of the anti-infantry fire.

[duz_]

They called out the Shadowsword on the steam as an example saying against 11+ model unit it would get max 3D3 results (9)

 

So it would be 12/24 with the new blast rules which is great the Wyvren needed a boost

 

I never found the Catachan bonus that helpful when I trialed it. Blast will definitely help battle cannons as like they said it was weird this edition when it became a better AT option than the Vanquisher and so-so vs infantry

[Thoridon]

Blast will still be a very nice boost for Catachan blast weapons.

 

As things stand now if you roll a 3 for battle cannon shots (D6) you have to think hard if you use the reroll as there's a 33% chance of rolling worse. In 9th if the target is 6-10 models you have that minimum of 3 banked, so reroll away. It takes away the worst case scenario.

 

And if you were only taking Catachan for that reroll you might now find another regiment gives more overall boost.

 

I'll enjoy Blast on both my Catachan battle tanks and non-Catachans.

[duz_]

Oh they also acknowledged that with the changes to vehicles no longer having a penalty for moving and shooting heavy weapons PotMS and similar traits will be revised to provide other benefits do our Tallarn brothers won't need to fret

[Shamansky]

... they said it was weird this edition when it became a better AT option than the Vanquisher and so-so vs infantry

Now let's pray The Emperor to not let them make Vanqiusher better by making Battle cannon worse

Edited June 11, 2020 by Shamansky

[Dark Legionnare]

Oh they also acknowledged that with the changes to vehicles no longer having a penalty for moving and shooting heavy weapons PotMS and similar traits will be revised to provide other benefits do our Tallarn brothers won't need to fret

Cool!  Eager to see what that'll translate to for Land Raiders and especially my blight haulers for DG.

 

Also also.  Still crossing my fingers they don't kill me with this "major" rework of Krieg they've claimed they're doing. As a man with far, far too much money invested in Guard that's ONLY krieg, I practically bite my nails they don't nuke their style of play/flair and or unique units.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Dark Legionnare

[GuardDaddy]

Terrain overview here https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/11/terrain-rules-and-line-of-sightgw-homepage-post-1/

 

Looks pretty straightforward. 

 

Obstacles are buildings over 5" in height that block line of sight through and interestingly over them. However flyers and 18+ wound models can still be targeted as if its not there. This is interesting.  Stormlord behind a buidling over 5" high can be shot at by a unit on the other side - but not shoot back.

 

Cover light = shooting and Heavy = melee harder to hit after first charge. This is good one for infantry.

 

Generally seems straightforward and common sense.

[Phubar]

As in 9th to hit moda arw capped i would like to have two properties in covers, one that helps you by "hiding from view" and another that helps you by "stopping bullets".

Like bushes or smoke gives enemy -1 to hit but no better save roll, barricades gives -1 to hit and better save.

Or "force fields" give no to hit penalty but better save.

[sairence]

They called out the Shadowsword on the steam as an example saying against 11+ model unit it would get max 3D3 results (9)

 

So it would be 12/24 with the new blast rules which is great the Wyvren needed a boost

 

 

Yeah, I heard that and I'd love it if that's the case. It's just not how the previewed rule is written, unless GWs grammar gymnastics have pulled one over me.

[Warhead01]

I'm really wondering what they're going to do with the Deathstrike Missile now. 

[duz_]

Hopefully it can have better than a 50% chance of shooting at T4 but we'll likely have to wait for the codex to see any changes

 

Nova cannon got better though

Will actually do what it's meant to clear out hordes in terrain

[jaxom]

 

Never useless

I never played with more than 4 IG squads this edition

I never considered my other 100 odd Mordians wasted

I have no intent or desire to add tanks to this army. I won’t care if it’s not the most competitive list, but I’d like to be able to still enjoy the game no mater who I play. I’d like to still have a chance of winning. I’m concerned I’ll still need 3 battalions, which will leave me with significantly less CP than my opponents, but I’m hoping that the ability to have an entire detachment of guard come in on a board edge from reserves will have power.

 

Some of these rules do seem to make certain traits relics and docterines useless and in need of a rework.

 

 

Well, that’s what I was building towards. Even bought a case specifically ment to carry all 300 of my guardsmen. A brigade would be nice but we don’t have any troops in the fast attack section (though I would love some jumpy dudes). Points are going up, so I might not be able to field all 300 guys except at the higher point cost, that could provide enough CP for more detachments.

 

Not enough information to really know yet, but my concern is there.

 

I think you'll be fine. Personally, I've been using about 9 CP on average in my 2k Guard games. Two 9th edition battalions nets you 9 CP (11 if you have Creed - well worth it if you don't mind running Cadians):

 

• 4-6 HQ
• 6-12 Troops
• 0-12 Elites
• 0-6 Fast Attack (zero in this case)
• 0-6 Heavy Support
• 0-4 Flyers (zero in this case)

120 Infantry Troopers, 120 Veteran Troopers, 36 Heavy Weapon Troopers equals 276 bodies; I think you're fine. Definitely take advantage of Regimental Doctrines and think about which two are going to give you the synergy/play-style you want. Catachans for line troopers and Cadians for fire support could be fun.

 

Speaking of Fast Attack - our choices no longer have to choose between Fast or Attack!

[Captain Caine 24th]

Creed is definitely one to keep an eye on. I could see specialist detachments remaining 1 per detachment, and GW heavily incentivizing taking only 1 detachment. Creed might let you get that extra detachment at a bargain.

 

Overall, GW starting the edition at high points cost is rather clever. There's always lots of bad PR and loud social media complaints with points hikes. So get the points adjustment out of the way now for everyone, under the cover of new models, and use frequent faq/errata to keep the fans happy along the way. Not bad, GW.

 

Anyway, 8th Ed was my favorite by far. Multiple regiments were workable. Lots of units could function. Even sentinels had a use. I mean there's been years in editions past, where AM/IG playability was downright ugly... Only very limited units work, maybe you need 3x of a very rare forgeworld unit, or the whole army relies on an obscure rules oversight. Man, we got a seat at the table in 8th.

 

But change is part of life. A bit of turbulence might be on the way, meaning new purchases, cutting and filing weapon load outs, etc. It's easy to imagine my whole army falling into obsolescence. But, I Choose to see it as an opportunity not an inconvenience(I need to remember sometimes that I got into this hobby because I love building models). Lest I forget too, that my malcador infernus, perhaps the worst unit in 8th Ed., is now just itching to play. Sounds like the FW update is slated to be right with the new edition release.

[War Angel]

Wait, is it possible the rule of 3 will go away? (rather the recommendation that’s treated like a rule?)

[DarthWaffle]

Wait, is it possible the rule of 3 will go away? (rather the recommendation that’s treated like a rule?)

 

I could see it going either way. For guard, the only units that are abused by this are Tank Commander and Company Commander, all of whom should really not be in lists more than 3 times anyways. 

 

I would prefer to see regular Leman Russes on the table than just a wall of tank commanders. I've kinda felt that they should have put in place a rule that for every tank commander you must have one normal Leman Russ in any detachment of squadron. That way at least you aren't seeing just a wall of Russes.

 

Just my thoughts. 

[duz_]

I doubt they're removing the rule of 3

I believe they're doing the opposite with codifying a lot of the FAQ changes into the new edition so unlikely it will change or that armies will receive exemptions from it

I like the rule forces more variety on the board

 

 

Also with changes to moving penalties and bonuses to blast weapons regular LRs are definitely more viable now

I also wouldn't be surprised to see a significant points increase on the TC

[DarthWaffle]

 

 

 

 

I doubt they're removing the rule of 3
I believe they're doing the opposite with codifying a lot of the FAQ changes into the new edition so unlikely it will change or that armies will receive exemptions from it
I like the rule forces more variety on the board


Also with changes to moving penalties and bonuses to blast weapons regular LRs are definitely more viable now
I also wouldn't be surprised to see a significant points increase on the TC

 

 

I think the TC increase is inevitable. Lets just hope they drop the points for regular LR. 

I just want a good Vanquisher Cannon like in the Gaunt's Ghosts novels. Please GW.

[duz_]

Nova cannon definitely benefits from new blast rules and if it retains ignores cover it could be decent

 

Which does leave the poor vanquisher and exterminator cannons left for dead unless they update them

Hopefully they do. Exterminator is easy it just needs it's double shots from twin linked which it never received

Vanquisher needs similar rules to the Shadowsword bonuses vs titanic

[Captain Caine 24th]

What will 9th give us? Will we get new cadians or catachans in 9th (or just what will guard get generally)?

 

So, my safe bet: we get a new commissar (I doubt they bring back rogue trader commissar squads), commander or a lieutenant at $35+. My moderate pick: new tarantula/sabre/carraige/heavy weapon team type thing like primaris is now getting. My wishlist: new imperial flyers in plastic from forge world (yes, I'll take 3 of those thunderbolts please). My odd ball pick: maybe something is done wyrdvane psykers like a tower of magic channeling or something goofy. Regiments would certainly be on the table, but there are so many new releases these days --sisters, primaris, etc. And, why bring back mordian iron guard when they can make a whole new regiment - like from the Orpheus sector or something known to be fighting necrons. Obviously we all know Praetorians are the best regiment (see user name).

 

As to rules, I'd expect a new codex at some point (which may kill vigilus and psychic awakening to condense into one book). Hopefully we aren't the first new codex out of the gate, before problems are ironed out. Reserves could make things really, really interesting.  Moderate bet: steel legion is back on the menu, predicting a shift from infantry to mechanized this edition. I don't know, i mean tanks shooting in combat is good, but that doesn't help melta squads jumping into close range...

[Warhead01]

I'd love a new Flyer. A dedicated bomber or fighter bomber would be something I would have to own. I'd love more artillery as well. 
 

[duz_]

Since we've had plenty of model wish listing threads recently some of which are still active and GW has not made any announcements of new models outside of the start collecting let's keep the focus on the rules changes and their impacts to IG.

 

 

Today's overwatch changes have essentially put the nail in the coffin for selecting my Mordian RDs. I might go with Cadian now since single detachments are now preferred. Steel legion is a possibility if I go full mech inf. Vostroyan is in there too although I'm not sure the extra range is of benefit on the now smaller boards.